Nineteen Year Old Son Plans to Join Army

Piffka, Our son was sent to Saudi Arabia twice during the first Gulf War. I think that's enough contribution from one family, since GWBush hasn't contributed anything but lies, and nobody in his family is in the armed services. It makes it too easy for him to say it's for the American People without personal sacrifice.

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My stepdaughter is a Sargeant in the Army and she's been in Iraq since February. She's a good soldier, dedicated to the military and her country but sometimes her frustration and her fears comes through in her emails. There just so much confusion and uncertainty in what they are doing. Nothing can be worse than fighting a war that you don't believe in. I wouldn't invite this on anyone's child.

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CI -- That IS enough contribution... it is ridiculous that the United States is in the mideast. Is it for sure that he will be called back in?

Grrrrrrrrrrrr -- don't get me started about the Shrub and his lack of service. I have no respect for him.

eoe -- I don't know how you can hold up, knowing your child is over there, worried for herself, wondering what is going on and why she's there. I can't begin to tell you how angry I am that we're back in this situation -- shades of Viet Nam.

I was standing a few times with a Women in Black group. It was so incredibly upsetting to see the hoo-haws who decided they had to take up the other three corners of the intersection at the same time we were there, showing our sadness and grief at the deaths of all people. They're all wearing red, white and blue and waving flags, acting like it was a party and pretending they were patriotic. Since when does a just war need that much glorification? You wouldn't want to know the nasty things they said... some of their supporters even pretended they were going to run us down. It was horrible and frightening in a way, and just stupid in another. It reminded me of the Pirates of Penzance operetta when the chorus of girls tried to get the police excited about going "to glory and the grave". It was laughable in the operetta and just as foolish now.

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The verification notice was to make sure they could contact him. There's some law that says he had to respond within 10-15 days of receiving the notice. That's all we know for now.

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piffka - is your son particularly patriotic? as i was reading about your plans for him in Europe, I started to get a bit nervous. The anti-American mood, well, I wouldn't want to see him reacting to that by becoming more convinced of the correctness of his decision to enlist.

The forum I saw the mother posting at (and she was at it again yesterday) is a cooking forum tied to Fine Cooking. The whole group of forums there is very interesting in terms of understanding more about how Americans think - many of the general contractors and renovators there are so right of centre, they make perception seems a tiny bit rosy. I've read things there, I couldn't have imagined (in terms of support of Bush ...)

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I think it's very important that your son has separated the sugar from the ****. He needs to know, honestly and truthfully, what he'll be getting into and that he won't have any options for a long time. He needs to know that his recruiter told him whatever he had to tell him to sign him up.
I think, for alot of young people, the military, like any other profession, is not necessarily a bad direction to go in. But not today. Not under this administration. Your commander-in-chief is an idiot and the country is run by cold-hearted bastards who give less than a damn about anybody's child.

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I agree 100 percent with eoe. This is one of the worst time to volunteer into the military. If and when the administration changes in the WH, that's when it'll be more sane.

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CI -- That's scary. I hope that they don't call him up again, but with this administration stretching our resources so thin... well. You know. I'll be thinking about you.

Beth -- Weird. I don't associate with people who are right-wing, it's easy to ignore them here in this state which went for Gore in 2000 by a good margin. You're probably hearing a lot more of that stuff than I. All my friends -- almost by definition -- are in the same left-wing mode I'm in, sigh.

He's not especially patriotic... I'm not worried about him acting in a way that will draw negative attention to himself -- he's fairly low-key and not easily swayed by others. I doubt that he will think that he should be doing this because of any anti-Americanism. (He already thinks he is totally correct... rite of passage, etc.) He might become more zealous because we'll be going to so many war museums & memorial sites, but that's old history.

In London, he'll be spending most of his weeday time in museums learning about art and anthropology.

eoe and ci -- That's just what I think. I hate the idea of the military being used so callously. Like Mr.P said, a fine tool being used as a hammer. It is so stupid. Right now, my best option seems to be to get him to wait until after we drive this fella out of D.C. But... did I mention my son is hard-headed???

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Most sons are, Piffka. A sad fact of life.

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<nodding>

His sister is so amenable... I don't get it!

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yes it's called a ghillie suit lol as for weapons it depends on what branch of the military your in. http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/042903/let_124-5535.shtml

bush served uhhh NO...he backed out but yet he sends ppl to their death.

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Rats. I was thrown out of my own DSL last night and now I can't get to that link.

Ghillie suit? Like the Scottish Ghillie!

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from safecracker's link

Quote:

Wants proof Bush served in military

Web posted Monday, April 28, 2003
| Letter to the Editor
No doubt about it, President George W. Bush is a very popular man. If he could walk on water, he would be more popular than Jesus.

On April 21, there was a picture of Mr. Bush, first lady Laura Bush and former POWs - Chief Warrant Officer Ronald D. Young Jr. and Chief Warrant Officer David S. Williams - on the Front Page of The Chronicle. I knew Mr. Bush wasn't going to let that photo op pass him by.

As popular as he is, not one person to my knowledge has come forth and said, "I served with Lt. George W. Bush in the Alabama Guard." An Associated Press article dated June 25, 2000, which I cut out of The Chronicle, says in part that they were looking for people who served with him to verify his story that he did.

Of all the men who served in that Alabama Guard Unit when Lt. Bush was supposed to be assigned there, you would think at least one would come forth so that President Bush could have a photo op with that person.

Retired Gen. William Turnipseed, who was a lieutenant colonel in 1972 when Lt. Bush was supposed to report to him, has said that to his knowledge he never showed up.

In Secretary of State Colin Powell's autobiography, My American Journey, he says, "I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

As a Purple Heart veteran and former infantryman in South Korea in 1950 with orders to "hold or die," I assure you that no Vietnam War coward who makes it to the White House and the title "Mr. President" will ever have my respect, let alone honor.

Richard D. Renew, Martinez, Ga.

--From the Tuesday, April 29, 2003 printed edition of the Augusta Chronicle

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a pic of part of a ghillie suit from ghillie.com

http://www.ghillie.com/images/Military.jpg

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oh look, the whole thing appeared

funny - google search on ghillie gives you either a military camouflage suit or irish dance shoes. couldn't be much more different.

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Piffka, I find it really encouraging that nothing will happen until the end of next summer. That gives time for other thoughts to creep in, to meet a great girl, to start playing with a band that really takes off... whatever.

From my own experience as an incredibly hard-headed teen, I think too much opposition will just cement his resolve. You don't have to be excited about it -- that's patently false -- but if you make a big push to get him every piece of information you think is important, and promise to back off once it is conveyed, and then DO so, it will become less about asserting his independence and adulthood and more about whether he personally really wants to do this.

Of course, he still might, but it removes the rebellion part of the equation.

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Thanks Beth -- double thanks! It's very interesting that nobody came forward -- you'd think someone who served with him would want their photo op, as well.

That Ghillie suit is just what I've seen on TV. It looks itchy! The Scottish Ghillie is a lot different.

http://www.men-in-kilts.com/kilts-images/kilt-ghillie-01.jpg

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piffka - that may have been something a Scottish ghillie wore, but it is not a ghillie suit.

the site this links to is a bit light - but it has some good history on why the ghillie suit is called a ghillie suit (plus it has some cute pix)

http://www.brownielocks.com/ghillie.html

(i can't get anything to copy from that site - otherwise i'd have carried it here for you)

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sozobe wrote:

I think too much opposition will just cement his resolve. You don't have to be excited about it -- that's patently false -- but if you make a big push to get him every piece of information you think is important, and promise to back off once it is conveyed, and then DO so, it will become less about asserting his independence and adulthood and more about whether he personally really wants to do this.

You're right, Sozobe, he'd see through me. I have been coming up with various scenarios where he could alter his plans, but he's so determined right now that I just can't budge him. Everything I've come up with so far, he has an answer to. He's not like some teens (like I was) who don't read the newspaper or understand what's going on in the world. He even reads the opinion page & the editorials, discusses them with his dad. I said he was a member of the ACLU. He asked to join and makes sure that his membership is paid every year. He's very idealistic and has a lot of respect for men who have served in the military -- all his favorite teachers in school (it's now dawning on me) were in one branch or another of the service and used those experiences while teaching economics, history, even business law.

It is good that he's waiting until next fall, but he says he's signing up in January. (I don't understand this at all.) That will be a month after he comes back from London... maybe travel will change his attitude.

I also wonder how much I should try to influence him. For one thing it's never worked well. For another, how do I know I'm right? My reasons stem from that visceral "don't let my baby get hurt" feeling and the "not in my backyard" -- "let somebody else do this" attitude. Of course, my feelings about the current administration and war as a pathetic method for civilizing the world are part of it.

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That is an interesting site and those are the ghillie suits I've seen on the history channel on tv called Mail Call! The show I saw said that the final test for snipers was to have them sneak up on their trainers (like SafeCracker, I guess) and not be seen until after they'd taken their first shot. Then they had some stand up in the field. It was astounding how many were there.

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Nineteen Year Old Son Plans to Join Army

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