Michele Obama's Big Mouth

What part should she tone down?

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hawkeye10 wrote:

ossobuco wrote:
I read the Collins piece, and do not have any complaints about what Michelle Obama was quoted as saying. Indeed, I like her better that I did before reading it.

I like her too, but if she continues to put her desire to speak out ahead of her husbands mission she will hurt him much more than she helps. It strikes me a selfishness. We are talking about the office of President, and no matter how talented he is Barack is lucky to have this shot. She should not be putting all that at risk because she wants to be extremely outspoken. Nobody is asking her to be like Laura Bush or McCains wife, just that she tone it down a few notches. She will not even do that for her husband.

Just WHO is asking her to tone it down and what makes you think your opinion is right? If nobody has asked her to tone it down, why do you accuse her of "not even doing that for her husband"???

Maybe she thinks she IS helping him - what do you know of her reasoning and their relationship anyway?

How do you defend your statement that she's putting him at risk? Maybe he ASKED her to be "extremely outspoken"?

Just your opinion, and it could count for diddly-squat.

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Butrflynet wrote:

What part should she tone down?

That would be the parts that tend to come off as her putting Barack down or in his place, as well as the impulse to speak her mind fully on everything. If she does not have some idea of how the words she is about to put into the public space will help Barack fulfill his mission then she should not be putting them out there. This run for president is primarily about him and his mission, not about her, and she does not seem to understand that.

She seems to take calls for her to tone down as calls for her to be a submissive wife, when it is not at all. I am sure that some of the women who have been quietly supportive of their husbands in their public life have been exactly the opposite in the private life that is their marriage. She and Barack can do what ever they want in their marriage, no body cares unless problems in their marriage cause problems outside of the marriage as is has for the Clinton's or unless it shows a lack of character on the part of the candidate as it did for say Giuliani.

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So Barack is the messiah because he speaks with eloquent passion and grace and Michelle is a loud mouth because she's not speaking with enough eloquent passion and grace.

Okie. I got it.

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Barack is the candidate, Michelle is not. Her role is to support him, period.

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I was going to bring up the messiah bit too but in a different context. I think Michelle was providing some very purposeful -- and smart -- ballast to the Barack Obama picture. He's just a regular guy. He's a very smart guy, he's a very talented guy, but he's human.

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I'll add that I think that anyone put off by any of Michelle Obama's remarks quoted in the Collins piece, or any of Collins' comments, is unlikely to have been going to vote for Obama anyway.

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ossobuco wrote:

I'll add that I think that anyone put off by any of Michelle Obama's remarks quoted in the Collins piece, or any of Collins' comments, is unlikely to have been going to vote for Obama anyway.

I don't think she hurts Barack in the primary, after all the other spouse is Bill and he has been even more mouthy. She will against McCain though, and everything that she is saying now can be used against barack by McCain.

I also agree that a good dose of Michelle serves to humanize Barack....she can be very good for him if she stays in her lane.

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If she stays in her lane? Hawkeye you do realize that this is 2008, don't you?
Even though you deny being a misogynist, almost every sentence of yours
proves otherwise. You want to censor the wife of a presidential candidate
while the other candidate is an outspoken women herself (Hillary). You see
how grotesque your way of thinking is?

To tell you the truth, McCain's dizzy Barbie trophy wife who just smiles and nods to her elder husband would get me more upset than an outspoken Michelle Obama.

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CalamityJane wrote:

If she stays in her lane? Hawkeye you do realize that this is 2008, don't you?
.

Yes, and I also realize that Hillary is a canidate and Michelle is not, and last time I checked Bill was a man. Go back and read what I said about Bill and Hillary and then make a case that contains as least a touch of logic that my views on presidential spouses shows me to be a women hater.

Face it, you can't deal with the fact that there could be occasions in life, even in 2008, where a woman keeping her views to herself and supporting her man would be the right thing to do. Neither can Michelle, so maybe this is a wider problem that needs to be explored.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

Face it, you can't deal with the fact that there could be occasions in life, even in 2008, where a woman keeping her views to herself and supporting her man would be the right thing to do. Neither can Michelle, so maybe this is a wider problem that needs to be explored.

This "wider problem" as you mention it, is a worldwide movement that has
started in the 70s. Perhaps it's not a problem in your small world, nonetheless you should go out more often. Very Happy

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CalamityJane wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
Face it, you can't deal with the fact that there could be occasions in life, even in 2008, where a woman keeping her views to herself and supporting her man would be the right thing to do. Neither can Michelle, so maybe this is a wider problem that needs to be explored.

This "wider problem" as you mention it, is a worldwide movement that has
started in the 70s. Perhaps it's not a problem in your small world, nonetheless you should go out more often.

I suspect that we will need to wait awhile to see how Michelle plays to know which of us is correct. I think that we already know what will happen by how Bill and Judith have gone over, but we still need proof that the rule applies to Michelle as well.

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CalamityJane wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
Face it, you can't deal with the fact that there could be occasions in life, even in 2008, where a woman keeping her views to herself and supporting her man would be the right thing to do. Neither can Michelle, so maybe this is a wider problem that needs to be explored.

This "wider problem" as you mention it, is a worldwide movement that has
started in the 70s. Perhaps it's not a problem in your small world, nonetheless you should go out more often.

Google Abigail Adams and see what kind of stories are retrieved. :wink:

Hawkeye has been exposed. Neither smooth talking nor mild manners nor all the calm denial in the world will change it. Did you see his feeble attempt to paint some lipstick on this pig?

hawkeye10 wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
Oy! Now you are comparing apples to oranges. Giuliani never really had
a leg to stand on, and you know what reeled him in? He's got absolutely
no moral bone in his body. Leave poor Judith Nathan out of it, Giuliani
did this all on his own.

The fact that he never had a chance does not alter the reality that his wife hurt him, and that his inability or unwillingness to control her hurt him.

Tell us, tough guy. How was Giuliani supposed to demonstrate his ability or willingness to control his wife?

He who advocates controlling women is worse than an entry-level misogynist.

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Today is the International Women's Day, btw.

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Ha, Walter, that reminds me of another joke where the wife was beaten
by her husband on payday every Friday. When asked why she doesn't
leave her husband, she replied: "Are you kidding? Soon he'll retire and
get paid only once per month."

O'Bill, you should read what our lovely Brooke told hawkeye in Linkat's
thread about her weight issue. Hawkeye has gotten flog from just about
every woman here on a2k, but he still insists of being right.

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This all reminds me of the watergate figures, Martha and John Mitchell....

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osso, in the 60s and 70s, wives of officials were more quiet and demure.
Martha was a housewife whose main interest was to support her husband,
and when he was scrutinized by the press, she did what she was supposed to do: defend him and stand by him. Her methods were objectionable but her
intentions were good. Back then, she stood out like a sore thumb, today
she would not, especially after having had Hillary as First Lady in the White House. Wink

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CalamityJane wrote:

Ha, Walter, that reminds me of another joke where the wife was beaten
by her husband on payday every Friday. When asked why she doesn't
leave her husband, she replied: "Are you kidding? Soon he'll retire and
get paid only once per month."

O'Bill, you should read what our lovely Brooke told hawkeye in Linkat's
thread about her weight issue. Hawkeye has gotten flog from just about
every woman here on a2k, but he still insists of being right.

I've never heard of a misogynist who admitted he was anything but considerate and thoughtful. I don't expect anything else in this case.

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I'm not sure Hawkeye is as misogynist as he seems (which I agree with, misogyny seems to be in near every post). I think he thinks of people, as I said once before, mechanistically, and/or contractually, first, and that his pronouncements based on that come out misogynistic, not least because of his language.

She says, running her mouth.

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CalamityJane wrote:

O'Bill, you should read what our lovely Brooke told hawkeye in Linkat's
thread about her weight issue. Hawkeye has gotten flog from just about
every woman here on a2k, but he still insists of being right.

I insist that I am right because i believe that I am right and no one has presented any evidence that I am wrong. Emotional reactions to my point of view are not only irrelevant but those who suffer from the affliction also suffer from clouded judgement because their emotion gets in the way of perceiving reality.

The challenge on the table is to argue how I can be a misogynist if the same rules apply to bill. Nobody has made any argument, all you have to offer is emotion, personal attack, and trying to hound me into silence. In other words nobody has offered anything. I believe this is because you have no counter to my argument because I am right.

If you don't think I am right then kindly grow up, and present an argument that makes some sense.

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Michele Obama's Big Mouth

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