On Obama and McCain, Hagee and Farrakhan

His (Hagee's) latest book, Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, interprets the Bible to predict that Russian and Arab armies will invade Israel and be destroyed by God.

This will set up a confrontation over Israel between China and the West, led by the anti-Christ, who will be the head of the European Union, Pastor Hagee writes.

That final battle between East and West - at Armageddon, as the actual Israeli location of Meggido is known in English - will precipitate the second coming of Christ, he concludes.

It is not clear how many evangelicals believe literally in those type of prophecies.

But Catholic League President Bill Donohue said in a statement Thursday that Hagee has written extensively in negative ways about the Catholic Church, "calling it 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.' "

"Senator Obama has repudiated the endorsement of Louis Farrakhan, another bigot. McCain should follow suit and retract his embrace of Hagee," Donohue said.

"I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual
leadership to thousands of people...I am not endorsing some of their
positions." [McCain Media Availability, 2/29/08]



So which Hagee positions does John McCain endorse? His position that
Hurricane Katrina was punishment from God because " I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are--were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade on the Monday that the Katrina came, and the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing"
[NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]]

Well, lessee.................

Hagee supports our ally , Israel.

Farrakhan advocates the destruction of our ally, Israel.

Hagee welcomes blacks and whites into his congregation.

Farrakhan refers to whites as 'devils'

__________________________________

If John McCain attended a church which gave an award to a racist, the call for McCain to leave that church would be loud and insistent.

Barack 'Present' Obama's church recently honored Farrakhan.

But 'Present' Obama can't seem to make the difficult decision to leave the church where his 'mentor' Dr Wright has built a church that is 'Committed to the Black Value System' and a 'non-negotiable Commitment to Africa' (but no stated commitment to America).

Jeremiah Wright wrote:

White America got their wake-up call after 9-11. White America and the Western world came to realize people of color had not gone away, faded in the woodwork, or just disappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.

'Present' Obama's problems with race go a lot deeper than just Louis Farrakhan.

real life wrote:

Well, lessee.................

Hagee supports our ally , Israel.

Farrakhan advocates the destruction of our ally, Israel.

Hagee welcomes blacks and whites into his congregation.

Farrakhan refers to whites as 'devils'

__________________________________

If John McCain attended a church which gave an award to a racist, the call for McCain to leave that church would be loud and insistent.

Barack 'Present' Obama's church recently honored Farrakhan.

But 'Present' Obama can't seem to make the difficult decision to leave the church where his 'mentor' Dr Wright has built a church that is 'Committed to the Black Value System' and a 'non-negotiable Commitment to Africa' (but no stated commitment to America).

Jeremiah Wright wrote:

White America got their wake-up call after 9-11. White America and the Western world came to realize people of color had not gone away, faded in the woodwork, or just disappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.

'Present' Obama's problems with race go a lot deeper than just Louis Farrakhan.

Has Farakan endorset Obama?

When Minister Farrakhan speaks, black America listens," Wright said. "His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.......

Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience," continues Wright. "His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics. His love for Africa and African American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.

The Country Club of Little Rock, where Bill Clinton has played golf several times a year since he became Governor, sits on a graceful hill in an exclusive neighborhood called the Heights, its greens sloping down to the Arkansas River. Opened just after the turn of the century, it recalls an older South in many ways, including its membership: 500 white men and women.

Last week Mr. Clinton, his quest for the Democratic Presidential nomination seemingly wrapped up, found himself under fire for playing at the club, and he quickly admitted he had made a mistake and vowed never to play there again until it was integrated.

"A guy asked me to play nine holes of golf," he said on Friday. "It was the only place we had time to play. I should not have done it."

But he did not explain why he had played at the club for years despite its all-white membership. Today, Mike Gauldin, his spokesman in Arkansas, was asked that question; he said, "No one ever complained about it before."

Mr. Clinton's mea culpa has not defused the criticism. In New York today, his chief rival, Edmund G. Brown Jr. of California, said that "even George Bush wouldn't dare play golf at an all-white golf club."

So real life,
If it is right to ask of Obama that he "reject and denounce" Farrakhan, should McCain be expected to show the same committnment to avoiding association with bigots by "rejecting and denouncing" Hagee?

Please be brief and answer directly if you can.

The two cases are different, and different in ways that ought to make McCain have to denounce Hagee a lot more than Obama had to denounce Farrakhan. Before Farrakhan ever announced his support for Obama, Obama was on record denouncing his views, and in particular his antisemitism. Obama did not solicit Farrakhan's support, appear with Farrakhan, or put out press releases announcing it.

If someone vile -- some white supremacist, for instance -- endorsed John McCain without McCain having solicited the endorsement, and after McCain had criticized that person extensively, that would be analogous to Farrakhan endorsing Obama. I think it would be insane to demand of politicians that they denounce anyone who endorses them under such circumstances. Perhaps if there were some unclarity about their views, a statement would be useful. But in a case in which it's perfectly clear that the candidate in question flatly disagrees with the person who has endorsed him, I can't see that that's necessary.

But Hagee's endorsement of McCain wasn't like that. McCain didn't just happen to be endorsed by Hagee; he appeared with Hagee at a joint press conference when that endorsement was made:

"I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today," McCain said at a news conference. "He has been the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement in many areas, but especially, most especially, his close ties and advocacy for the freedom and independence of the state of Israel."

That's very different.

snood wrote:

So real life,
If it is right to ask of Obama that he "reject and denounce" Farrakhan, should McCain be expected to show the same committnment to avoiding association with bigots by "rejecting and denouncing" Hagee?

Please be brief and answer directly if you can.

In your estimation, snood ... is Hagee a racist? Is Farrakhan a racist?

Please be brief and answer directly if you can.

Ticomaya wrote:

snood wrote:

So real life,
If it is right to ask of Obama that he "reject and denounce" Farrakhan, should McCain be expected to show the same committnment to avoiding association with bigots by "rejecting and denouncing" Hagee?

Please be brief and answer directly if you can.

In your estimation, snood ... is Hagee a racist? Is Farrakhan a racist?

Please be brief and answer directly if you can.

I think they are both bigots, form what I have heard of both. I think Farrakhan is a racist, but I don't have information about Hagee's views on other races. Even though I know you were just stirring shyt, that answer you?

But your beef with Hagee is what exactly? That he thinks homosexuals are going to Hell? That he believes the Koran mandates muslims to kill Christians and Jews? What?

Ticomaya wrote:

But your beef with Hagee is what exactly? That he thinks homosexuals are going to Hell? That he believes the Koran mandates muslims to kill Christians and Jews? What?

What about that he preached that Katrina was "the judgment of God"; that New Orleans was struck by Katrina because "New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are--were recipients of the judgment of God for that"? That reason enough to have a beef with the guy?

Or what about how he held forth about how the Jews brought anti-semitism on themselves? He wrote that "the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God's chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, [..] gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day [..]. Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come.... it rises from the judgment of God uppon his rebellious chosen people."

That enough reason to have a beef with the guy, similar to how you could have a beef with Farrakhan?

Either Ticomaya does not understand why there would be impatience to have a person of color or female rather than another white man in the office of POTUS, or he does understand, and is simply full of shyt.

Either Ticomaya doesn't understand that people have a problem with Hagee because he blames the people in New Orleans for Katrina and the Jews for the holocaust; because he disparages Catholics and is openly bigoted toward homosexuals - or he does understand, and he is simply full of shyt.

I say he's full of shyt.

I got a problem with someone who thinks Hagee is worse of a problem than Farrakhan.

And, even though I admit I've been flip about it here, I really am suprised at the silence about this from our GOP/conservative members. It can't be that they don't see the significance of this - I mean, if Obama/Farrakhan is significant, isn't McCain/Hagee?

What is all the obsession over here? First of all, I have never heard of Hagee, and I have not been a McCain supporter. Secondly, I don't really care who Hagee is...

I have never heard of Hagee...
Snood, to compare the relationship of this Hagee guy and McCain with Jeremiah Wright and Obama is I think a huge stretch. And to compare Hagee to Wright and Farrakhan is also a stretch...

LOL but you never heard of Hagee.

Jews and Hagee
03 Mar 2008 10:22 am

Gershom Gorenberg writes:

Quote:

But Jews should be joining Catholics on this one. If McCain were as pro-Israel as Hagee says he is, the candidate would want nothing to do with Hagee. You don't back a democracy by siding with someone who regards a handgun as the means to change policy. There is a certain dissonance between supporting a country and giving theological justifications for the murder of its elected leader. We don't even have to talk about Hagee's earnest hopes for war on Israeli soil, or his classic theological delegitimization of Judaism.

I completely agree, but of course it doesn't seem like it's going to be in the cards. It was about a year ago today that I found myself wondering why AIPAC was putting Hagee on a panel described as "Two eloquent voices from diverse backgrounds explore the history of U.S. involvement in the Middle East and how Americans from all faiths can find common cause in supporting Israel." It's certainly true that Hagee's group, Christians United for Israel, shows that Americans can support Israel for all sorts of reasons, ranging from concern for the welfare of the Jewish people to a desire to see Israel conquered by a Russo-Arab alliance in order to hasten the End Times, but sometimes the whole "big tent" concept can go too far.

Presumably what's happening is that we have a lot of snobs among the leaders of American Jewry who figure they can use and manipulate rednecks like Hagee. And maybe so. Still, it seems to me that in a country where we're a tiny minority group, it makes a lot more sense for American Jews to build alliances with non-Jews who aren't aiming at our short-term destruction.