0
   

The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 04:51 pm
From certain people, the phrase "Highly Esteemed" translates as "what a yutz, I'm soooo much smarter, and you are to dumb to realise it." Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 04:54 pm
hobit, In my sheltered life, "Highly Esteemed" has nothing but positive vibes. Wink
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 04:56 pm
Sorry, CI, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to another poster's overuse of the phrase.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 08:33 pm
Iraq Getting Brighter


Quote:
U.S. Says Reached Pre-War Power Levels in Iraq
Mon October 6, 2003 08:49 PM ET
By Sue Pleming
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. officials said on Monday that Iraq's power supply, a huge irritant for Iraqis, was now at about pre-war levels and they hoped to be able to meet demand next summer when more industries have been revived.

Andrew Natsios, administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, told reporters Bechtel, USAID's prime contractor in Iraq, had restored up to 4,400 megawatts of power by Monday -- about the same capacity as before the war.


Some will find this inconvenient.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 08:37 pm
Its about bloody time!
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 09:36 pm
Great .... can we go home now Smile
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Oct, 2003 09:55 pm
One of the greatest problems posed by Iraq's physical civil infrastructure is that it essentially has been neglected since the Ba'athists came to power over 30 years ago. Apart from unrepaired war damage, its maintenance, repair, expansion, and upgrading has been effectively non-existant. True success will begin when the nation achieves Pre-Saddam condition. There's quite a ways to go in that regard, before even considering bringing things into the 21st Century. Lots of bridges to build.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 12:38 am
Well, regarding that the USA and others knew exactly where all the weapons of mass destruction are situated, they certainly knew about this "open secret"!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 01:40 am
Quote:
... Thanks to the work of our law enforcement officials and coalition partners, hundreds of terrorists have been arrested, yet tens of thousands of trained terrorists are still at large. These enemies view the entire world as a battlefield, and we must pursue them wherever they are. So long as training camps operate, so long as nations harbor terrorists, freedom is at risk and America and our allies must not, and will not, allow it.

Our nation will continue to be steadfast, and patient and persistent in the pursuit of two great objectives. First, we will shut down terrorist camps, disrupt terrorist plans and bring terrorists to justice. And second, we must prevent the terrorists and regimes who seek chemical, biological or nuclear weapons from threatening the United States and the world. ...

... We will work closely with our coalition to deny terrorists and their state sponsors the materials, technology and expertise to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction ...

... And all nations should know: America will do what is necessary to ensure our nation's security.

We'll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events while dangers gather. I will not stand by as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons.

G. W. Bush 2002 State Of The Union Address

Quote:
... All free nations have a stake in preventing sudden and catastrophic attacks, and we're asking them to join us, and many are doing so.

Yet the course of this nation does not depend on the decisions of others.

Whatever action is required, whenever action is necessary, I will defend the freedom and security of the American people ...

... Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein faced the prospect of being the last casualty in a war he had started and lost. To spare himself, he agreed to disarm of all weapons of mass destruction.

For the next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He pursued chemical, biological and nuclear weapons even while inspectors were in his country.

Nothing to date has restrained him from his pursuit of these weapons: not economic sanctions, not isolation from the civilized world, not even cruise missile strikes on his military facilities.

Almost three months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave Saddam Hussein his final chance to disarm. He has shown instead utter contempt for the United Nations and for the opinion of the world.

The 108 U.N. inspectors were not sent to conduct a scavenger hunt for hidden materials across a country the size of California. The job of the inspectors is to verify that Iraq's regime is disarming.

It is up to Iraq to show exactly where it is hiding its banned weapons, lay those weapons out for the world to see and destroy them as directed. Nothing like this has happened.

The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons materials sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax; enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin; enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it ...

... Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.

G. W. Bush 2003 State Of The Union Address

How anyone can claim Bush said anything other than that he would not allow threat to become imminent escapes me. Perhaps some perceive one to have lied when in fact one simply has not said what some wished to have heard.

Similarly, I cannot understand how anyone reading Kay's Interim Report can claim Iraq was not in continued and wilfull material breach of UNSCR 1441. Clearly, some believe themselves to have heard only what they wished to, not what actually was said.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 01:55 am
timberlandko wrote:
Similarly, I cannot understand how anyone reading Kay's Interim Report can claim Iraq was not in continued and wilfull material breach of UNSCR 1441. Clearly, some believe themselves to have heard only what they wished to, not what actually was said.


Actually,; I havn't read any remarks about Kay's report re 1441 (ceratinly not here) but only re weapons of mass destruction.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 04:45 am
Could be, might, maybe, should have, looks like, possibilty of, given time .......


abra cadabra ...

Enough of the freaking presto changeo

Show me something that goes bang or sssssssttttttttttttt or shut the hell up!


For those that believe in preemptive strikes ...





http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:iIjmEi5WiV0C:www.thewaytobalance.com/PRODUCTS/ecp-castoroil.jpg
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 07:43 am
meanwhile: BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi interpreter were killed and two U.S. soldiers wounded on Monday in a bomb blast south of Baghdad, the U.S. central command said on Tuesday.
Earlier, it said in another incident on Monday that one U.S. soldier was killed and another wounded by a bomb attack west of Baghdad.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 07:44 am
Hobit
Quote:
Sorry, CI, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to another poster's overuse of the phrase.

Surely not me? Shocked

timber you said

"Some will find this inconvenient."

The more pertinent question imo is why did it take 6 months to restore a vital utility to pre war levels? I thought this was invasion-lite which didn't entail inflicting excessive damage on civilian infrastructure.

also you ask "How anyone can claim Bush said anything other than that he would not allow threat to become imminent escapes "me.

Well it was quite clear what Bush meant, and its quite clear what he did. What is not clear is whether Saddam Hussein was ever the threat to the United States that Bush said he was.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 07:51 am
Geli, is that castor oil? cant read the label from here.

How do you mean pre emptive strike.? Is that as in chemical warfare, you know ricin developed from castor beans which also of course go to make castor oil?

Or am I by chance reading too much into this? and its to do with being caught short in a more direct and personal way? Cool
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 08:46 am
'fraid the presto-change-o is on the part of folks other than The Current Administration. Bush is just doing what he said he would. He clearly indicated, in two successive State of The Union Addresses, The US could not and would not allow the danger to BECOME imminent.

Colin Powell wrote:
What Kay Found

By Colin L. Powell
Tuesday, October 7, 2003; Page A25


The interim findings of David Kay and the Iraq Survey Group make two things abundantly clear: Saddam Hussein's Iraq was in material breach of its United Nations obligations before the Security Council passed Resolution 1441 last November, and Iraq went further into breach after the resolution was passed.



Kay's interim findings offer detailed evidence of Hussein's efforts to defy the international community to the last. The report describes a host of activities related to weapons of mass destruction that "should have been declared to the U.N." It reaffirms that Iraq's forbidden programs spanned more than two decades, involving thousands of people and billions of dollars.

What the world knew last November about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs was enough to justify the threat of serious consequences under Resolution 1441. What we now know as a result of David Kay's efforts confirms that Hussein had every intention of continuing his work on banned weapons despite the U.N. inspectors, and that we and our coalition partners were right to eliminate the danger that his regime posed to the world.

Although Kay and his team have not yet discovered stocks of the weapons themselves, they will press on in the months ahead with their important and painstaking work. All indications are that they will uncover still more evidence of Hussein's dangerous designs.

Before the war, our intelligence had detected a calculated campaign to prevent any meaningful inspections. We knew that Iraqi officials, members of the ruling Baath Party and scientists had hidden prohibited items in their homes.

Lo and behold, Kay and his team found strains of organisms concealed in a scientist's home, and they report that one of the strains could be used to produce biological agents. Kay and his team also discovered documents and equipment in scientists' homes that would have been useful for resuming uranium enrichment efforts.

Kay and his team have "discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery . . . has come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that the Iraq Survey Group has discovered that should have been declared to the U.N."

The Kay Report also addresses the issue of suspected mobile biological agent laboratories: "Investigation into the origin of and intended use for the two trailers found in northern Iraq in April has yielded a number of explanations, including hydrogen, missile propellant and BW [biological warfare] production, but technical limitations would prevent any of these processes from being ideally suited to these trailers. That said, nothing . . . rules out their potential use in BW production." Here Kay's findings are inconclusive. He is continuing to work this issue.

Kay and his team have, however, found this: "A clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to U.N. monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW [chemical-biological weapons] research." They also discovered: "a prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N."

The Kay Report confirms that our intelligence was correct to suspect the al-Kindi Co. of being involved in prohibited activity. Missile designers at al-Kindi told Kay and his team that Iraq had resumed work on converting SA-2 surface-to-air missiles into ballistic missiles with a range of about 250 kilometers, and that this work continued even while UNMOVIC inspectors were in Iraq. The U.N.-mandated limit for Iraq was a range of 150 kilometers.

The Kay Report also confirmed our prewar intelligence that indicated Iraq was developing missiles with ranges up to 1,000 kilometers. Similarly, Kay substantiated our reports that Iraq had tested an unmanned aerial vehicle to 500 kilometers, also in violation of U.N. resolutions.

What's more, he and his team found that elaborate efforts to shield illicit programs from inspection persisted even after the collapse of Hussein's regime. Key evidence was deliberately eliminated or dispersed during the postwar period. In a wide range of offices, laboratories and companies suspected of developing weapons of mass destruction, computer hard drives were destroyed, files were burned and equipment was carefully cleansed of all traces of use -- and done so in a pattern that was clearly deliberate and selective, rather than random.

One year ago, when President Bush brought his concerns about Iraq to the United Nations, he made it plain that his principal concern in a post-Sept. 11 world was not just that a rogue regime such as Saddam Hussein's had WMD programs, but that such horrific weapons could find their way out of Iraq into the arms of terrorists who would have even fewer compunctions about using them against innocent people across the globe.

In the interim report, Kay and his team record the chilling fact that they "found people, technical information and illicit procurement networks that if allowed to flow to other countries and regions could accelerate global proliferation."

Having put an end to that harrowing possibility alone justifies our coalition's action against Hussein's regime. But that is not the only achievement of our brave men and women in uniform and their coalition partners.

Three weeks ago I paid my respects at a mass grave in the northern city of Halabja, where on a Friday morning in March 1988, Hussein's forces murdered 5,000 men, women and children with chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein can cause no more Halabjas. His "Republic of Fear" no longer holds sway over the people of Iraq. For the first time in three decades, the Iraqi people have reason to hope for the future.

President Bush was right: This was an evil regime, lethal to its own people, in deepening material breach of its Security Council obligations, and a threat to international peace and security. Hussein would have stopped at nothing until something stopped him. It's a good thing that we did.

The writer is secretary of state.


© 2003 The Washington Post Company
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53173-2003Oct6.html


What the Kay report makes clear is that Saddam had no intention of complying with the requirement his regime renounce and refrain from pursuit of WMD, but rather constructed an elaborate deception machine to conceal ongoing proscribed activity. The Kay report makes clear there is yet no satisfactory answer to the question of what became of the know, catalogued, and as yet unnaccounted materiel and programs that were the very point of two successive UN inspection and verification efforts. The Kay report makes clear that much remains to be discovered, particularly in light of the facts that less than 10% of Iraq's nearly 150 known weapons storage and distribution facillities have been examined as yet, while apart from The Report, almost daily discoveries of previosly unknown significant arms caches are disclosed. The Kay Report makes clear , abundantly clear, that the world is fortunate Saddam was not allowed to realize his nefarious and despicable aims.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 08:53 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Geli, is that castor oil? cant read the label from here.

How do you mean pre emptive strike.? Is that as in chemical warfare, you know ricin developed from castor beans which also of course go to make castor oil?

Or am I by chance reading too much into this? and its to do with being caught short in a more direct and personal way? Cool


Castor it is. That's my prescription for those that are still gullible enough to believe annything this administration says..

fool me once shame on you ... fool me twice shame on me.

If they find anything ............... IF............. what will that do for the IraqI people ........... nada .... squat .......... zero


BTW if Kay is the best, why wait til now to put him in?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 08:56 am
Steve, a major factor of difficulty impacting the restoration of the Iraqi power grid are the compounding effects of post-war organized, more-than-randomly-opportunistic criminal looting and sabotage of the facillities. Similar difficulties exacerbate problems of reconstruction and rehabilitation throughout Iraq's civil infrastructure. These difficulties are being overcome.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 09:01 am
And Gel, I say again, there is a disconnect between what The Current Administration is on record as having said and what some would prefer to believe was said.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 09:06 am
timberlandko wrote:
And Gel, I say again, there is a disconnect between what The Current Administration is on record as having said and what some would prefer to believe was said.


Timber, if by 'disconnect ' you mean they have'nt been right yet, I agree.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2003 09:10 am
The greatest absurdity is that some refuse to recognize that the lot and prospects of The Iraqi People have been improved immeasureably by their liberation from the Ba'athists. I am bemused that the very factions which decry the tendency of The Right to be supportive of repressive totalitarian regimes object to the removal by The Right of just such a regime.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 07/27/2025 at 12:08:50