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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Kara
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:33 am
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Kara
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:38 am
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:49 am
The cover story for this week's Time Magazine sheds a rather different light on the "Where are they?" question: They weren't there, but Saddam thought they were. An excerpt from the article:

Quote:
Saddam's underlings appear to have invented weapons programs and fabricated experiments to keep the funding coming. The Mukhabarat captain says the scamming went all the way to the top of the mic to its director, Huweish, who would appease Saddam with every report, never telling him the truth about failures or production levels and meanwhile siphoning money from projects. "He would tell the President he had invented a new missile for Stealth bombers but hadn't. So Saddam would say, 'Make 20 missiles.' He would make one and put the rest in his pocket," says the captain. Colonel Hussan al-Duri, who spent several years in the 1990s as an air-defense inspector, saw similar cons. "Some projects were just stealing money," he says. A scientist or officer would say he needed $10 million to build a special weapon. "They would produce great reports, but there was never anything behind them."

If Saddam may not have known the true nature of his own arsenal, it is no wonder that Western intelligence services were picking up so many clues about so many weapons systems. But it helps answer one logical argument that the Administration has been making ever since the weapons failed to appear after the war ended: why, if Saddam had nothing to hide, did he endure billions of dollars in sanctions and ultimately prompt his own destruction? Perhaps because even he was mistaken about what was really at stake in this fight.


And just to keep the Cheney debate going, simply because Dick Lautenberg claims the arrangements are illegal does not make them so, no matter how many NON-JUDICIAL opinions or studies allege they may be. Appearances can be deceiving, to say the least, as echoed in the questions raised by Time's current cover story as cited above. The Administration position re Cheney/Halliburton is precisely that all pertinent legal requirements have been met or exceeded. If The Opposition is able to prosecute their charge successfully, I will be most surprised. In fact, I doubt they will even be able, on the face of available "evidence", to get a court to consider their allegations. Law is law, opinions are opinions.
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:55 am
BTW, Kara, great articles ... indeed they merit reading.
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Kara
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:59 am
Timber, you said:

Quote:
Folks are welcome to make their own assumptions and to draw their own conclusions. Folks who ascribe mercenary venality and petty revenge to the US motivation for and conduct of the current Iraq intervention do themselves, the People of Iraq, and the overall campaign against Global Terrorism grave disservice, IMO. That's my assumption, based on conclusions drawn from information I have garnered ... information based on facts, figures, documetary evidence, and diligent following of Hard News as opposed to Agenda-driven Opinion.



I do not hear many folks claiming mercenary venality and petty revenge as motives in our efforts against Global Terrorism. I disagree that our war against Iraq (this was an "intervention"??) was a strike against global terrorism, in spite of the administration's hopes that we would make that assumption. The only marginally acceptable excuse for our country's pre-emptive strike and "intervention," (a truly laughable euphemism, IMO) was the removal of Saddam Hussein, a brutal dictator. That was not a defensible reason to go to war, but it is the least objectionable of the many trumped-up reasons.
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Gelisgesti
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 11:18 am
Timber, if what you are saying is that Cheney is one of the more successful, learned, crooks in the Bush gang then I think we have something to agree on.
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Sofia
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 11:35 am
Kara--
Excellent articles! Thanks for bringing them.
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 12:41 pm
Gel, what I am saying is that irrespective of spin, Cheney is in compliance with all applicable law. That fact may be dressed up however anyone wishes, but when it gets to the party, it is still that fact, no matter what anyone thinks of its costume.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 01:27 pm
well, i think all these charges about the Veep are from ""an effete corps of impudent snobs". How Did Spiro get by with just resigning and not spend any jail time?
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 02:01 pm
He copped a plea. That may not be justice, but like it or not, opinion aside, its provided for within the law. Personally, I'd have been a lot happier if Agnew had been pilloried, publicly flogged, then burned at the stake, with forfieture of all his goods and assetts and the perpetual indenture of his immediate family and their progeny, but those laws have been changed, and I just gotta live with that.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 02:20 pm
Seems like all this criticism of Bush the Younger is coming from "nattering nabobs of negativism" radiclibs. But you know how it is when you are absolutely right and draw the ire of those on the outside looking in. Well, actually I don't know what its like to be absolutely right, but I have some republican friends i can ask.
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roger
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 02:28 pm
Those stories of non existent Iraqi weapons may be true, and I'm not saying they are not. If they were actually scamming old Saddam, they were completely misreading his temperament, or were certifiably insane, or really enjoyed the thought of being run through a hammermill, feet first.
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Diane
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 03:44 pm
Checking in--reading Kara's articles.
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Kara
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 05:30 pm
Hi Diane,

I am worried now about the articles I posted. Sofia liked them, which makes me wonder if I have done wrong. Laughing

And timber liked them, too, which gives me additional pause. Rolling Eyes
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 06:25 pm
It seems what is happening is that the stories about the WMD's gets more sophisticated as time passes on. Different scenarios that seem plausible will be used to confuse the American People. They know it works!
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Kara
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 06:34 pm
c.i., I noted that, too. Now it is that they had plans for WMD's, even if same had not been executed.

The putative weapons and the plans and the sites will be winkled out, you can count on it.

This all becomes wearying. Why don't we talk about real things. Did anyone read the lead center story on the front page of Sunday's NYTimes about cousin marriage in Iraq? Fascinating. The people interviewed said that Saddam's extended family would protect him completely, just as any such family clan would do so in Iraq. (I can post this if anyone is interested.)
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roger
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:11 pm
It won't work. It's like watching a feature length animated cartoon. You are asked to suspend your credibility, so you do. Then, all of a sudden, you wake up and realize, "Hey, mice don't talk." Well, they not only said they were there, they said they knew the locations. Okay, show me some, or see how far you get the next time.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 09:29 pm
roger, It won't work for some of us, but many Americans now buy the story that it's for the Iraqi People, and good riddance of Saddam, the tyrant.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 11:45 pm
roger

They didn't only say they knew the places, they showed them on tv!


c.i.

Looking at the polls, the majority of US-Americans believed it before.
Now, there will be some more.
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Gelisgesti
 
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Reply Tue 30 Sep, 2003 04:58 am
Kara wrote:
c.i., I noted that, too. Now it is that they had plans for WMD's, even if same had not been executed.

The putative weapons and the plans and the sites will be winkled out, you can count on it.

This all becomes wearying. Why don't we talk about real things. Did anyone read the lead center story on the front page of Sunday's NYTimes about cousin marriage in Iraq? Fascinating. The people interviewed said that Saddam's extended family would protect him completely, just as any such family clan would do so in Iraq. (I can post this if anyone is interested.)
0 Replies
 
 

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