The UN, US and Iraq IV

Here are more lies to rationalize, finish these and I'll bring you some more .............. I wonder if the pollsters have talked to Sanariya?

Point being ....... how to determine representivity in a polled body.



FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum" [ Browse | Search | Topics ]

Click to scroll to commentary.

Rape (and Silence About It) Haunts Baghdad
NYT ^ | 7/16/2003 | NEELA BANERJEE

Posted on 07/16/2003 4:58 PM PDT by Courier

Rape (and Silence About It) Haunts Baghdad

By NEELA BANERJEE

BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 15 ?- In her loose black dress, gold hairband and purple flip-flops, Sanariya hops from seat to seat in her living room like any lively 9-year-old. She likes to read. She wants to be a teacher when she grows up, and she says Michael, her white teddy bear, will be her assistant.

But at night, the memory of being raped by a stranger seven weeks ago pulls her into its undertow. She grows feverish and has nightmares, her 28-year-old sister, Fatin, said. She cries, "Let me go!"

"I am afraid of the gangsters," Sanariya whispered in the twilight of her hallway. "I feel like they are killing me in my nightmares. Every day, I have these nightmares."

Since the end of the war and the outbreak of anarchy on the capital's streets, women here have grown increasingly afraid of being abducted and raped. Rumors swirl, especially in a country where rape is so rarely reported.

The breakdown of the Iraqi government after the war makes any crime hard to quantify.

But the incidence of rape and abduction in particular seems to have increased, according to discussions with physicians, law- enforcement officials and families involved.

A new report by Human Rights Watch based on more than 70 interviews with law-enforcement officials, victims and their families, medical personnel and members of the coalition authority found 25 credible reports of abduction and sexual violence since the war. Baghdadis believe there are far more, and fear is limiting women's role in the capital's economic, social and political life just as Iraq tries to rise from the ashes, the report notes.

For most Iraqi victims of abduction and rape, getting medical and police assistance is a humiliating process. Deeply traditional notions of honor foster a sense of shame so strong that many families offer no consolation or support for victims, only blame.

Sanariya's four brothers and parents beat her daily, Fatin said, picking up a bamboo slat her father uses. The city morgue gets corpses of women who were murdered by their relatives in so-called honor killings after they returned from an abduction ?- even, in some cases, when they had not been raped, said Nidal Hussein, a morgue nurse.

"For a woman's family, all this is worse than death," said Dr. Khulud Younis, a gynecologist at the Alwiyah Women's Hospital. "They will face shame. If a woman has a sister, her future will be gone. These women don't deserve to be treated like this."

It is not uncommon in Baghdad to see lines of cars outside girls' schools. So fearful are parents that their daughters will be taken away that they refuse to simply drop them off; they or a relative will stay outside all day to make sure nothing happens.

"Women and girls today in Baghdad are scared, and many are not going to schools or jobs or looking for work," said Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division of Human Rights Watch. "If Iraqi women are to participate in postwar society, their physical security needs to be an urgent priority."

Beyda Jafar Sadiq, 17, made the simple decision to go to school on the morning of May 22 and never returned. Her family has been looking for her ever since. They have appealed to every international nongovernmental organization, the Iraqi police and the American authorities. Her eldest brother, Feras, 29, has crisscrossed the country, visiting the morgue in Basra in the south, traveling to Amara and Nasiriya on reports from acquaintances that they saw a girl who looked like Beyda.

"I just want to find her," said Beyda's mother, Zakiya Abd, her eyes swollen with grief. "Whether she's alive or dead, I just want to find her."

Some police in Baghdad concede that at this point, there is little they can do to help. Their precinct houses were thoroughly looted after the war. Despite promises from the American authorities, Baghdad police still lack uniforms, weapons, communications and computer equipment and patrol cars.

"We used to patrol all the time before the war," said a senior officer at the Aadimiya precinct house. "Now, nothing, and the criminals realize there is no security on the streets."

The Human Rights Watch report alleges that sometimes when women try to report a rape or families ask for help in finding abducted women, they are turned away by Iraqi police officers indifferent to the crimes. Some law-enforcement officials insist abduction and rape have not increased, while other officials and many medical personnel disagree.

Bernard B. Kerik, a former New York City police commissioner and now an adviser to the Interior Ministry, told of recently firing a precinct chief when he learned that the official had failed to pursue a family's report of their missing 16-year-old daughter. "The biggest part of the issue is a culture that precludes people from reporting," Mr. Kerik said. "It encourages people not to report."

If an Iraqi woman wants to report a rape, she has to travel a bureaucratic odyssey. She first has to go to the police for documents that permit her to get a forensic test. That test is performed only at the city morgue. The police take a picture of the victim and stamp it, and then stamp her arm. "That is so no one else goes in her place and says that she was raped, that she lost her virginity," said Ms. Hussein, the nurse.

At the morgue, a committee of three male doctors performs a gynecological examination on the victim to determine if there was sexual abuse. The doctors are available only from 8:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. If a victim arrives at any other time, she has to return the next day, without washing away any physical evidence. Hospitals can check victims only for broader trauma, like contusions and broken bones.

Dr. Younis said she had seen more rape cases in the months after the war than before. Yet even when women come to the hospital with injuries that are consistent with rape, they often insist something else happened. A 60-year-old woman asserted that she had been hit by a car. The mother of a 6-year-old girl begged the doctor to write a report saying that her daughter's hymen had been ruptured because she fell on a sharp object, a common lie families tell in the case of rape, Dr. Younis said.

Shame and fear compel the lies, Dr. Younis said. "A woman's father or brother, they feel it is their duty to kill her" if she has been raped, Dr. Younis said. "It is the tribal law. They will get only six months in prison and then they are out."

Sanariya's family took her to a doctor three days after her attack only because the bleeding had not stopped. She had been sitting on the stairs at about 4 p.m. on May 22 when an armed man dragged her into an abandoned building next door. He shot at neighbors who tried to help the girl. He fled when she began screaming during the assault.

Her mother refuses to let her outside now to play. Fatin lied to her family and said an operation had been done to restore Sanariya's hymen. But when her eldest brother, Ahmed, found out otherwise, he wanted to kill Sanariya, Fatin said.

Out of earshot of her family, Sanariya said she feels no better now, two months after the attack. "I don't sleep at night," she said in the hallway. "I don't sleep."
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: IRAQ; ISLAM; ITSJUSTSEX; RAPE; RAPIST Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-50, 51-93 next last

</Sanariya, 9, was raped seven weeks ago. Now she has nightmares, she says, and her parents and brothers beat her because they are ashamed of her.>


1 posted on 07/16/2003 4:58 PM PDT by Courier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]
To: All

See that good looking dude on the left? He's got FAR BETTER THINGS to do than conduct Freepathons! Come on, let's get this thing over with.

2 posted on 07/16/2003 5:00 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
Comment #3 Removed by Moderator
To: Courier

Not to dimish the family's plight but has the ny times published any positive story's from Iraq? Parley

4 posted on 07/16/2003 5:01 PM PDT by Parley Baer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Whether the White House, State Dept, Media, Academic World, Liberal Churches, or anyone else who believes we can live in peace with such a culture: they are wrong.

5 posted on 07/16/2003 5:02 PM PDT by Courier (Quick: Name one good thing about the Saudis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

This article is OUTRAGEOUS.

Saddam used rape as state policy!

When did the Times ever print a story about Saddam's state payroll of rapists?

Maybe during the 23 years of Saddam's reign of terror they mentioned it, I don't know. I certainly don't recall them making it a top left PAGE ONE affair.

Notice as well how the blame is laid at the feet of US policy, not at the feet of a culture so rapine it needs to cover its women fully all the time.

Absolutely outrageous.

6 posted on 07/16/2003 5:35 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Objects in post may be funnier than they appear)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Gee, ain't Islamic culture great?

7 posted on 07/16/2003 5:38 PM PDT by yooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: yooper

I'd like to see a government run completely by women set up there. Put a 50 year limit before a man can take any leadership postion. No man shall serve unless a woman be above him.

8 posted on 07/16/2003 5:46 PM PDT by KCmark (I am NOT a partisan.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

And OF COURSE then answer is to take away their small arms.

That'll fix everything.

9 posted on 07/16/2003 5:47 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (BREAKING: Supreme Court Finds Right to Sodomy, Sammy & Frodo elated.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: thoughtomator

Outrageous, indeed. What DID the Times ever do to publicize the Iraqi's atrocities before we went in. I picked up this paper this morning for the crossword puzzle. I glanced at this headline and read on wondering how my friends and family in the military in the theater of operations were supposedly to blame for the rapes, and sure enough, there it was. I know people who read this paper and believe the propoganda. They are as much to blame for the propagation, in my opinion. And I shouldn't be giving this fishwrap a penny.

10 posted on 07/16/2003 5:53 PM PDT by RLJVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Beyda Jafar Sadiq, 17, made the simple decision to go to school on the morning of May 22 and never returned. Her family has been looking for her ever since.

Why, so they can make sure she's dead?

Have I mentioned today how much I despise pretty much everyone outside our nations borders, and half of those within?

11 posted on 07/16/2003 7:24 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: thoughtomator

When did the Times ever print a story about Saddam's state payroll of rapists?

Well, you know how they jump on unemployment when there's a Republican president, right? Okay, there you go! Saddam's rapists are now unemployed and forced to freelance! And it's all George W. Bush's fault!

12 posted on 07/16/2003 7:26 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Sounds as if the girl's nightmares as attributable more to the ongoing beatings by her parents and brothers, than to the one-time trauma of the rape. She's scared to sleep because the people who beat her regularly are sleeping under the same roof.

13 posted on 07/16/2003 7:49 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: A_perfect_lady

Why, so they can make sure she's dead?

C'mon, if this were your child, I doubt you would simply stop looking...

14 posted on 07/16/2003 7:55 PM PDT by Bush2000 (R>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]
To: A_perfect_lady

The prophecy of Christ is ringing so true. "And because sin shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Love's a hard thing to find in times like these.

15 posted on 07/16/2003 8:03 PM PDT by man of Yosemite ("When a man decides to do something everyday, that's about when he stops doing it.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]
To: Bush2000

Well, having read the whole article, it sounds like they routinely kill daughters who've been "dishonored." Let's face it... these are People Not Like Us.

16 posted on 07/16/2003 8:05 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]
To: yooper

Gee, ain't Islamic culture great?

Actually I think its disgusting and sick. Everything I see about it is gross. I might be stupid but hey thats just me.

I have a big issues with islam and there ways

17 posted on 07/16/2003 8:09 PM PDT by zoen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

I see the New York Times is in familiar form.

Americans occupy Baghdad, women and minorities (Western soldiers) hardest hit!

18 posted on 07/16/2003 8:24 PM PDT by Joseph_CutlerUSA (I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Poor little girl! Having such a traumatic experience and a family that continues to traumatize her. No wonder the women don't tell anywone if they can avoid it. And no wonder that they possibly reported it even less before the war than they do now.

19 posted on 07/16/2003 10:10 PM PDT by skr (The liberals are only interested in seeking Weapons for Bush Destruction)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: skr

This isn't about the Times.

This is about a savage culture where, contrary to Western norms, the more freedom they have to act, the more freely they would act out their barbarism.

20 posted on 07/17/2003 8:39 AM PDT by Courier (Quick: Name one good thing about the Saudis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies ]
To: Joseph_CutlerUSA; skr

Sorry skr

#20 was for those who mentioned the Times

21 posted on 07/17/2003 8:45 AM PDT by Courier (Quick: Name one good thing about the Saudis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies ]
To: A_perfect_lady

Well, having read the whole article, it sounds like they routinely kill daughters who've been "dishonored." Let's face it... these are People Not Like Us.

That may well be. But you would be making a mistake to construe the actions of some Iraqis to all Iraqis. And after all, our country has a long history of stifling and/or ostracizing victims of sexual abuse.

22 posted on 07/17/2003 9:22 AM PDT by Bush2000 (R>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]
To: Bush2000

Hmm ... stiflling, ostracizing ... murdering. Nope, sorry, just can't put that in the same category. We are two different cultures, I don't see anything wrong with saying that. THE SCARLET LETTER just does not equal "beat to death with rocks."

23 posted on 07/17/2003 9:54 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Oh, man.

24 posted on 07/17/2003 3:00 PM PDT by RLJVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Let's not forget that not so very long ago women were treated much the same (with the exception of murdering the victim) here in America. And there are STILL big issues with rape in America today. Take for example the 19 yr old girl who recently accused famous sports star Kobe of rape. I actually heard on the news that she had tried out for American Idol and so she was star struck and it was insinuated in the press that this indicated that she may just going for money or fame by falsely accusing this man of rape. She is being again victimized by the Media who know nothing of the real evidence. Victims of rape are almost always made to feel ashamed and as if she deserved it or asked for it during their trials here in America. That ones that get trials that is, many are made to feel so ashamed that they do not report the rape. Many will not report that rape because they know how badly they will be treated in the trial by the defense. As much as we have progressed in this area, we still have a long ways to go. It is a world wide problem that no country is exempt from. But American WILL continue to progress and hopefully so will Iraq now that the regime, whose own family members are rapists themselves and whose political party members had a free pass to rape and abuse women in this manner has been removed from power. And more rapes being reported in Iraq since the war is not at all surprising. Women have less to fear when reporting such things now and those that previously would never have reported such a thing are more likely to do so now.

25 posted on 07/19/2003 10:23 AM PDT by ChericeBaye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: ChericeBaye

thx Cherice!

I was getting sic reading to all thse comments with allmost non sense in it... :p

I just want to say that Western culture is not so idealistic... they seems "barabarian" from our point of view but think that not so long ago (don't need to go more than 1 century ago)we were almost like them... making suffer people, ignoring their rights to be human being, to live...

Thanks to freud and all those humanist and psychologist of the 20th century we make more attention to psychological damage now than before. But the situation needs to be improved again and again because 'rien n'est parfait dans le meilleur des mondes'

In our countries womens are still molested and rapes, minorities suffer racism and rejection, there is still homophobic crimes... the day were all those intolerances will dissapear of our nations then we will have rights to complain that it still happen ib the rest of the world... Now it's too pompuous to do that.

I want to add that arabians countries are in a time of transition were great tensions exist... Lots of Imam (and other people) want to rule (i think really it's about power and nothing else) by imposing a vision of the religion based on lecture of the current dating of the 12 century or something...

Don't forget that it's by the interaction between our civilizations during the 'franc empire of orient' and the spanish reconquistat hat we learn to be civilized and medieval moeurs changed and some time later give birth ot the renaissance.

we have too think also that the coran whath added at the bible like the new testament came on top of the old... god appear to mahomet because he was frustrating of what the christan were doing to his paroles. Islam is religion about love and kindness like the words of jesus says to me some arabian friends.

i get carried away but i think it's too simple to throug a stone to someone when we have done so little our selves because to repeat someone : the 'devil' is here too.

i hope we will help the iraqis too gain a more 'mature' culture and the will forget about blood feud and all this and take more in consideration the well being of their own than their honour

Disturbman

ps : in early 1900 some advances was being made in the social tissue of europe... see what happens afterward in germany, italy and in other countries...

same happen after the fall of the roman empire : a great civilization was wiped out and the darkest age of the western culture begin

history is repeating itself other and other again... civilization fall and darkeness comes but civilization will rise again... higher than before!!!

I just hope too see the day were humans will stop think only for themselves

26 posted on 07/19/2003 2:21 PM PDT by Disturbman (we see ourselves in them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

She wants to be a teacher when she grows up, and she says Michael, her white teddy bear, will be her assistant.

Interesting that she has a white teddy bear named Michael who is her freind.

27 posted on 07/19/2003 2:36 PM PDT by McGavin999 (Just because we met our fundraising goals doesn't mean you can't still contribute.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

and her parents and brothers beat her because they are ashamed of her.>


////
They do this because they worship Allah, the "Merciful, the Compassionate," no doubt?

28 posted on 07/19/2003 2:38 PM PDT by BenR2 ((John 3:16: Still True Today.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: ChericeBaye

Let's not forget that not so very long ago women were treated much the same (with the exception of murdering the victim) here in America.


//////////
A minor "exception," indeed. (end sarcasm.)

29 posted on 07/19/2003 2:40 PM PDT by BenR2 ((John 3:16: Still True Today.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Whether the White House, State Dept, Media, Academic World, Liberal Churches, or anyone else who believes we can live in peace with such a culture: they are wrong.

///
If the White House and the State Department would publicize this kind of abuse, they could help reduce it.)

(But, they won't, of course. Any more than they make an issue of the mistreatment of Arab Christians.)

30 posted on 07/19/2003 2:42 PM PDT by BenR2 ((John 3:16: Still True Today.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

Typical propaganda in my opinion. Something marvelous gets destroyed, and it's not the fault of the destroyer, but whoever is the most hated at the moment.

I really stopped believing the story when I read, "Sanariya's four brothers and parents beat her daily"; -because of the shame-, but they let her speak to a reporter on the same subject (as indicated by the quotes from the little girl). I don't think any culture or religion will act like that on his or her own 9-year-old kid (if older, yes surely, if she acted ?'like a western whore' and looked men in the eyes). If the parents really beat a nine-year-old girl because she was rapped, then I just lost all respect for the Arab culture.

"A woman's father or brother, they feel it is their duty to kill her", well talk about natural selection!!! But I think that emasculating all men of the family for being unable to protect the women (*caught* stupidity *caught*) should also be done!

"But when her eldest brother, Ahmed, found out [what happened], he wanted to kill Sanariya, Fatin said. Out of earshot of her family, [but not the reporter!!] Sanariya said she feels no better now, two months after the attack. "I don't sleep at night"". Maybe she's afraid he brother will kill her in her sleep?

I have no doubt this rape happened (like every day in NY or LA), but the story is being used for someone else's agenda, it follows the usual "propaganda for westerners" recipe that has been seeping into our daily media too often in the last few decades. Remember the story about dead babies inside incubators in Kuwait? Witnessed by a nurse, but really the daughter of the of Kuwait ambassador (US) who was never at that hospital. That's what triggered outraged in the US public opinion that finally decided the US government to create the first Golf War.
I am loosing fate in the media…

31 posted on 07/19/2003 2:47 PM PDT by OnePostSubscriber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: OnePostSubscriber

'i'm losing fate in the media'

nice one i like it...

you finnaly open your mind to the real world.

the media are not only a vector of propaganda but they also publish the thing they think will make them sale...

we don't like arabs?! they will say naughty thing about them... furthermore enhancing our 'rejections' and 'hatred' for them

if you want real thing about what's going on in iraq just go and read that : http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/

the media are the new religion...

32 posted on 07/19/2003 2:55 PM PDT by Disturbman (the media is the opium of the people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies ]
To: Disturbman

Interesting link ... But yet Salam "Pax", the Baghdad Bloger has a column in "The Guardian". Furthermore Salam links to THIS story, a poorly executed propaganda attempt. So I am not sure what to think of your words. Sarcasm?

Darn I just made my name a lie...

33 posted on 07/19/2003 3:42 PM PDT by OnePostSubscriber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies ]
To: OnePostSubscriber

yes porrly he was recycling by the system but take as it comes... go and read his begining in the blog you will see that is for real and propaganda is not his goal.

he just a man who lived there and report things as they are...



i'm happy i make your nickname lie!

;p

34 posted on 07/19/2003 3:51 PM PDT by Disturbman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]
To: Disturbman

as for the guardian column i didn't know it... i didn't read the guardian i'm from an accursed country : France...



35 posted on 07/19/2003 3:54 PM PDT by Disturbman (the frog is here let it not escape... squash it! ;p)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies ]
To: OnePostSubscriber; Disturbman

Ya'll both signed on today, and both are familiar with Salam Pax, so I guess it's safe to say that you came here because of his blog?

Salam is cool. He's not exactly a big fan of the war against Iraq, but recently he posted that he wants the Americans to stay to protect him from the mullahs.

I sympathize, war is always the last resort, but sometimes it has to be. Innocent people get killed, things get destroyed, but no more Saddam is a Good Thing.

36 posted on 07/19/2003 4:11 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Never voted for a Democrat in my life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]
To: BenR2

"White House and the State Department would publicize this kind of abuse?"

And give up their lucrative post Government work for the Saudis?

37 posted on 07/19/2003 4:11 PM PDT by Courier (Quick: Name one good thing about the Saudis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies ]
To: CobaltBlue

yes i came here because of his blog...

who wants his country to be bombed and turn to ashes? not me...

hopping that the future will be bright for salam and all iraqi people because nowadays it seems irak seems to got to hell...

if only they are able to show the corps (dead or alive) of sadam... i think it will be more easier afterward.

some will stop their combat and the reconstruction will really begin.

everything will be better if they have electricy, watter and security... people will stop complaining.

38 posted on 07/19/2003 4:18 PM PDT by Disturbman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies ]
To: Disturbman

I expect that you are right about the corpse or corpus of Saddam. Once people know he is dead or in prison, the ones who are afraid won't be so afraid.

I do find it very disturbing that the people in Iraq now want to fight among themselves.

By the way, a word of advice. This is a conservative website, and some of the people who post here can be rather rude and abrasive. Not most of them, just a few. But if you post sympathetically about Iraq or critically of the US, some will flame you and try to get rid of you.

America is rather polarized right now.

39 posted on 07/19/2003 4:23 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Never voted for a Democrat in my life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

First, let the Dems tell us again why we shouldn't be there.

Interesting the little girl's bear is named Michael rather than Ali. Wonder why. Poor thing, a few hugs in lieu of the beatings might calm the nightmares a little. I'm very suspicious of why that brother wants to find his sister when she's disgraced his name or is he afraid she'll name her rapist?

If it's so taboo and a disgrace to the family to be raped, not to mention the fear of death, then why report it at all? How do we know more is occurring now than before? That just doesn't ring true. If women are so afraid then by golly, their male relatives should arm them. A few well aimed shots would put a stop to a lot of that sick cultural mentality.

The policeman that's complaining about the lack of uniforms could get off his rear and start patrolling again if he's all that concerned. But it's easier to blame someone else rather than do his job.





40 posted on 07/19/2003 4:27 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
Comment #41 Removed by Moderator
To: Courier; knighthawk

....like any lively 9-year-old<.b>. She likes to read. She wants to be a teacher when she grows up....
....But at night, the memory of being raped by a stranger seven weeks ago
pulls her into its undertow.

Surely this article is a fabrication.
Iraq is an Muslim country, ruled by Islam, The Religion Of Peace, Inc.

Surely this writer has confused Baghdad with Oklahoma City, where rapists
motivated by that most hateful of ideologies (not really a religion) called Christianity
blights the lives of the children.

Besides, we know there is no pedophilia in Islam...because every grown man
should follow the noble example of The Most High And Final Prophet Of Allah,
Mohammed...and take a 9-year-old bride (e.g., Mohammed's favorite wife,
the 9-year-old Alysha [sp?]) to their bed in order that there be no pedophilia,
like that which pervades those infidel Christians.


...end of my politically-correct world view, as given to us on a daily basis
by most of the major media of the world.
Except maybe FOX NEWS.

42 posted on 07/19/2003 4:42 PM PDT by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Courier

A new report by Human Rights Watch based on more than 70 interviews with law-enforcement officials, victims and their families, medical personnel and members of the coalition authority found 25 credible reports of abduction and sexual violence since the war.

Twenty-five, eh? So what you are saying is that Baghdad is safer for women than Washington DC...

43 posted on 07/19/2003 5:04 PM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Any religion that allows its prophets to nail nine-year-old girls can't be all bad, right? *shudder*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: A_perfect_lady

Have I mentioned today how much I despise pretty much everyone outside our nations borders, and half of those within?

So go live in a cave somewhere.

44 posted on 07/19/2003 5:36 PM PDT by huck von finn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]
To: huck von finn

Welcome to Free Republic. Maybe you'll get to the 3 month mark.

45 posted on 07/19/2003 5:46 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies ]
To: A_perfect_lady

Your statement was ridiculous.

46 posted on 07/19/2003 5:53 PM PDT by huck von finn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]
To: huck von finn

There is nothing ridiculous about hating monarchists, communists, and islamists. That pretty much comprises everyone outside of this country and a lot of people in it. Tell me if you need this restated in smaller words and I'll do what I can. Then you can tell me why my statement bothered you so much.

47 posted on 07/19/2003 6:46 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies ]
To: ChericeBaye; Disturbman

Wow! I just think it's the most remarkable coincidence that you two both agree that Western culture is so similar to Islamic culture ...

...except for the little detail about us not murdering our rape victims .... and except for us only levying criticism against those whom we suspect are LYING (Kobe) as opposed to murdering them because we know they're telling the truth...

...and you both signed up on the same day! Today! That's just such a ... remarkable ... coincidence! Golly gee willikers... what could that mean??

48 posted on 07/19/2003 6:54 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies ]
To: everyone

Anyone who mentions Saddam when issues like this come up are missing the whole point. When the US invaded and took over the country it became responsible for these kinds of problems, Saddam no longer has anything to do with it. You are responsible for their government or lack of so you are responsible as an occupying military to restore the things that provide safety from incidents like that. You can dodge it however you like but it is a fact.

you have one mess on your hands...

49 posted on 07/19/2003 6:55 PM PDT by tengobotas (you are missing the point)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies ]
To: A_perfect_lady

if you are saying that one is boggey... think what you want but i know that we are two sepparate person...

as far as i remember i didn't say they are so similar... i just says that our culture is not so clean...

i wanted to make you understand that we came from the same 'background'... we have only just a bit more evoluate 'socially speaking'... women victims of rape are being made ashamed of them selves and think they are guilty, some never report because they are afraid of rejections or primary reaction...

as for the murder what do you expect from a country where murder and attrocities has been governing for 30 years...

i didn't know haw to say this... hope someone will say it better than me

Tehran putting its spies in Iraq


By Philip Sherwell
LONDON SUNDAY TELEGRAPH



NAJAF, Iraq ?- Iran has dispatched hundreds of agents posing as pilgrims and traders to Iraq to foment unrest in the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala, and the lawless frontier areas.
Tehran's hard-line regime has also allowed extremist fighters from Ansar al-Islam, a terror faction with close links to al Qaeda, to cross back into Iraq from its territory to join the anti-American resistance.
The Pentagon believes that Iran is building a bridgehead of activists inside Iraq, ready to destabilize the country if that serves its future interests.
"They are provoking sectarian divisions, inciting people against the Americans and trying to foment conflict and anarchy," said Abdulaziz al-Kubaisi, a former Iraqi major who was jailed by Saddam Hussein and is now a senior official in the Iraqi National Congress.
"The last thing that certain elements in the regime want is to see a stable democratic and pluralistic Iraq next door, so they are trying to export trouble here," said a leading official in another Iraqi party.
Although Iran's president is a political moderate, true power remains in the hands of the fundamentalist clergy. At a time when Iran is facing domestic discontent over the slow progress of democratic reform and mounting international pressure over its nuclear program, hard-line elements believe that instability in Iraq will distract attention from the regime's problems.
The National Council of Resistance in Iran (NCRI), an opposition group, claims that some translators working for the U.S. forces are reporting back to Tehran.
It also says that its informants within the regime have supplied details of senior Iranian intelligence commanders who are operating inside Iraq.
"The Iranian agents have melted into the population and are just waiting until the moment is right," said one NCRI official.

Full story

Sounds like baby talk to me. Is this indicative of a great leader and statesman? I don't think so.

So what's your point, Gel? That evidence of horrific, tragic, inhuman suffering and outrage can be found in contemporary Iraq? Apart from Antarctica, perhaps, I can't think of an inhabited part of the planet immune from such, war or no war,dictatorship or democracy. Or perhaps your point is you believe the Iraqis are too primitive a people for self determination. Anyone is entitled to an opinion, even a contrarian opinion. Neither "The War" nor the US created the society in which the outrages you cite occurred. Neither will lift that society above and beyond the capability to produce similar outrages. Like it or not, the Iraqi People have noticed they've been liberated, and like it or not, the preponderant local sentiment is not entirely negative toward the notion. Stability increases day by day, but no society is free of predators, bigots, and all other variety of thug. As stability improves in Iraq, the thugs will have considerably less latitude. They've already lost their government jobs and official approval ... now they're unemployed thugs, who are being rounded up, many being returned to the very prisons they left when Saddam flung open the doors. Iraq won't be a functioning democracy by next tueday. They are on their way, however, and likely will get there sooner than some folks on elsewhere on this planet might find convenient. And it now appears they will do it with US help and direction alone, as the UN prefers political games to effectively address pressing issues. Opposition to the US over the Iraq issue has set the stage for the demise of the UN ... UN failure to accept its responsibilities in the region assure the institution will not miss its exit cue. Is the EU next to be written out of the script?

Gil,
Who is more barbaric, the anarchic scum who routinely abduct and rape, or those who insist it never hapened/choose to disregard it in favour of "happy news from Iraq"/use it as a hammer to trumpet the superiority of thier nation?

ya know, bob, concentrating on either ridiculous extreme is absurd. Iraq is not perfect. The US is not perfect. Iraq is arguably less imperfect than it was a short while ago. There may yet be hope for the US.

My original point was directed to Sopia and that was ... how are you going to take a meaningful poll in an occupied country where the answers to said poll are a form of self preservation. For 30yrs prior to this occupation there were no questions .......... period.

Now, this person named Zoogby can extract a truthful answer, ie... one that is not designed for self preservation. Add in the fact that the average Iraqi will not have a clue as to say ... what is democracy.

That knife cuts both ways ... just as I would not have much faith in a poll that suggest all Iraqi's love the US, the same would go for one that indicates they hate us.
In other words polls suck.

You left one out Bob ... the scum that scum scrapes off it's shoes is the scum that sends innocents off to thier death on the authority of a stolen election ... that is the ultimate scum..

And besides, they're just Arabs, right? Who cares if the ignorant little towely heads kill and rape each other. It isn't like they're people! That sems to be the gist of the responses in Gel's piece.
Yes, Timber, things have to get better, because they surely can't get much worse!
As for the UN and its "responsibilities in the region," how do you expect the UN to be able to function without a minimum of security? Bushy-Poo II and his cronies told the UN to go f##k themselves, realized they couldn't handle the mess on their own then went back to the UN and instead of asking for help offered to let the UN "assume their responsibilities." What a load of parochialistic offal! Its the US that his proving to be the real obstruction ot progress in Iraq, not the UN.
Much noise has been made of providing training for an Iraqi police force, but when the new police are subject to the same curfews, checkpoints,and indiscrimanate killings by US forces that the average Iraqi person they are trying to protect, they are rendered useless. As with everything else in this conflict, "our" actions contradict our words. Instead of encouraging stability the US' actions make stability impossible.

The UN rejection of US offers of security support pretty much leaves the US out of the loop as far as UN security goes. And the UN's decision to cut-and-run, whatever may or may not be the justifications for their withdrawl, pretty much leaves the UN out of the loop as far as Iraqi reconstruction and rehabillitation go. Avoiding an issue does nothing to resolve the issue. Both the US and the UN have had a role in the declining relevance of the UN ... neither shows much interest in resolving those issues. That may well turn out the greatest tragedy, loss, and general globalpolitik setback to come of this whole debacle. Its difficult to determine now which is the greater challenge; improving US sentiment toward the UN, or improving UN sentiment toward the US. Without progress in both, that situation can only continue to deteriorate.

Gel,
My name is Sofia. Intentional misspellings of members' name is against TOS.

Iraqis indeed have long established, barbaric practices. It would be wonderful if these could dissipate overnight. It seems it will take time. Once the Council has arrived at their laws, and have an army in place to enforce them--life will begin to improve in Iraq.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Iraq will emerge from the Stone Age.

Your point about some Iraqis being afraid to answer truthfully appears to argue my point. They are not afraid of the Americans views on their answers, but of their fellow Iraqis, still loyal to Saddam.

Hobitbob--

.
When the Iraqi forces are properly trained, they will be freed to act in that capacity. Letting them loose with guns, not completely trained, would result in more mistakened killings, and a loss of confidence by Iraqis for their police ... A thing done correctly takes time.

Quite. I can't but wonder at the folks siezed of the notion that while 12 years wasn't long enough, several months are far too long. Something certainly seems absurd.

And who put them there?


As do the dwellers of every nation and civilization. Please tell me you are not falling onto the trap of "those people-ism." You and I are not better or worse than any other people.

Perhaps because many of us feel ashamed that our nation is responsible for the mess in Iraq.

Where did someone say it doesn't happen, and how can the culture that demands murder of raped women be laid at the feet of Americans?

This, and the brainwashing of children, the institutional teaching that Saddam is god--called education--are Stone Age principles that I would think every thinking person would be glad to see swept into history.

I perceive you as an intelligent person, Hobit. Don't you want these people to stop the murderous cleansing of their raped daughters, and open their minds to education?

Sofia, rest assured the mispelling of your name was unintentional.
Barbaric ... from who's point of view.
What you call 'barbaric is in actuality a code of honor these people live and die by. If you want to address barbarism address, 10,000 Iraqi men women and children massacred by fire fallling from the sky.
Why? They lived in the wrong place. A crime of geography.

bob, many of us feel our nation, alone or not, is responsible for finally doing something to lift Iraq its been in for generations. Those of us with that viewpoint are unashamed of it, even while we acknowledge and accept our efforts in the matter are as succeptable to the failings of humankind as are all efforts of humankind. Some of us really think we're trying to make an intolerable situation more tolerable, many of us see progress in that effort, humanly flawed though it may be.

Beating and murdering a girl or woman because she has been raped is barbaric from my point of view. Is it OK by you?

One entry found for barbarian.
Main Entry: bar·bar·i·an
Pronunciation: bär-'ber-E-&n, -'bar-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin barbarus
Date: 14th century
1 : of or relating to a land, culture, or people alien and usually believed to be inferior to another land, culture, or people
2 : lacking refinement, learning, or artistic or literary culture
- barbarian noun
- bar·bar·i·an·ism /-E-&-"ni-z&m/ noun

You tell me.

You assume joy on the part of the person adminstering the beating.
Can you tell me the rate of unwed mothers in Iraq?

My father was abusive and I mean two by four abusive ... broken bone abusive ...and while I do not forgive or otherwise condone abusing a child .... he was raised that way, as was his father .... I can understand.

IraqBodycount tallies "All reported civilian deaths" in Iraq since the onset of the war at somewhere between 7K to 9K or so, by their latest update. While certainly some Iraqi civilian deaths were due to "fire from the sky", others indisputably have been due to other causes, not excluding sectarian iternecine violence and simple criminality, to say nothing of more mudane, wholly unrelated-to-war causalities. Hyperbole and hysteria, sentiment and prejudice, opinion and polemic, do not constitute evidentiary argument, no matter how comforting and self-reinforcing they may be.