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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 07:23 pm
Politics is sure some nasty way to make a living...



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IRAQ and Ambassador April Glaspie


Ed Jajko adds more information on April Glaspie: "In my previous message concerning Ambassador April Glaspie's meeting with Saddam Hussein, 25 July 1990, I gave citations to web pages that have versions of the transcript of the meeting. That was out of librarian's habit, simply directing people to the sources. Here, with citation again to the web pages, are quotations, lifted out of context, of the relevant words. There are significant differences between the two versions:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html

Saddam Hussein - As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - What solutions would be acceptable?
Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam's view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)

On August 2, 1990 four days later, Saddam's massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait.

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html
THE NEW YORK TIMES INTERNATIONAL
SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1990
Excerpts From Iraqi Document on Meeting with U.S. Envoy

GLASPIE: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late 60's. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi or via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are solved quickly. With regard to all of this, can I ask you to see how the issue appears to us?

Ronald Hilton - 2/23/03

Webmaster
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 07:40 pm
And back to today ....


Baghdad Burning

... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...
Saturday, September 27, 2003

Worried in Baghdad...
Aqila Al-Hashimi was buried today in the holy city of Najaf, in the south. Her funeral procession was astounding. Rumor has it that she was supposed to be made Iraq's ambassadress to the UN. There are still no leads to her attackers' identities… somehow people seem to think that Al-Chalabi and gang are behind this attack just like they suspect he might have been behind the Jordanian Embassy attack. Al-Chalabi claims it's Saddam, which is the easy thing to do- pretend that the only figures vying for power are the Governing Council, currently headed by Al-Chalabi, and Saddam and ignore the fundamentalists and any inter-Council hostilities, rivalries and bitterness between members.

What is particularly disturbing is that the UN is pulling out some of its staff for security reasons… they pulled out a third tonight and others will be leaving in the next few days. Things are getting more and more frightening. My heart sinks every time the UN pulls out because that was how we used to gauge the political situation in the past: the UN is pulling out- we're getting bombed.

Someone brought this to my attention… it's an interesting piece on some of the companies facilitating the whole shady contract affair in Iraq. The original piece is published by The Guardian Unlimited and discusses contracts, the Bush administration and how Salem Al-Chalabi, Ahmad Al-Chalabi's nephew fits into the whole situation- Friends of the family.

There's a shorter, equally good version of the same on Joshua Marshall's site that is worth reading- Talking Points Memo.




Friends of the family


Talking points memo
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 07:45 pm
Gil, have you read Arabists: The Romance of an American Elite by Kaplan? The shakeups at the state dept. during the Reagan and Bush eras that made the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait inevitable are discussed in detail.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:03 pm
Bob, no, but I will...
Be sure to read the two url's from my last post .... made me go holy ****!
It's like I fell down a freakin rabbit hole. AACK
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:19 pm
Quote:
Amid all this boasting about its lucrative connections, IILG is surprisingly modest about the family connections of its founder, Salem Chalabi. The website doesn't mention that he is a nephew of Ahmed Chalabi, who just happens to be the leader of the US-backed Iraqi National Congress (INC), a member of the governing council and current president of Iraq. Uncle Ahmed, a former banker in Jordan, fled the country in 1989 before he could be arrested in connection with a $200 million financial scandal. He was later tried in his absence and sentenced by a Jordanian court to 22 years in prison on 31 charges of embezzlement, theft, misuse of depositor funds and currency speculation.

And who was the source of the information Bush and Co. recieved about WMD, etc.. in Iraq? That's right...Chalabi.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:24 pm
Following the Nazi collapse, Germany was an unpredictable, violent place for quite some time. Hitler's Werewolves never amounted to much, but their post-war anti-occupation terror-and-sabotage campaign had been planned meticulously, down to the prepositioning of arms and munitions. In large part, the failure of the Werewolves was due to the pragmatic nature of Soviet De-Nazification: all military age males were suspect, and those unable to convince the skeptical Soviet Army and NKVD interrogators of the absolute certainty of their future cooperation were shot, marched off to The Gulags, or imprisoned within Germany. It became quite evident to the Germans, Werewolves, ex-military, and just-plain-man-in-the-street alike that resistance, particularly to the Soviets, was futile; many would-have-been resistors went to great, and often unfufilled, effort to surrender to US or British forces. Surrendering to the French was considered almost as risk-prone as falling to the Soviets, and for cause. Banditry and brigandry were common, a black market thrived (far more money was transfered by Allied Occupation troops from Germay to accounts in their respective homelands than was paid to those troops by their governments), certain neighborhoods or districts were so dangerous for Occupying troops that they were "Off Limits", entered only by armed patrols on full war alert. There were assaults, murders, robberies, lootings, bombings, arsons, kidnappings, and assorted other mayhem aplenty even without organized resistance (to be fair, the occupying troops evidenced a bit of violent criminality as well ... rapes, robberies, assaults, and the like). Commanders of US combat units pressed into occupation and pacification duty bemoaned the sad state of equipment that had fought non-stop from Normandy all the way into Germany, the scarcity of repair facillities and replacement parts, and the ill-suitedness of combat troops to the task of overseeing civil affairs. Troops were griping that "We've done our share. The war is over and we should be at home now", and there was considerable clamor at home to get them home the sooner the better.
Not presented with the difficulties posed by an occupation army of Soviet ruthlessness, the Iraqi post-occupation resistance enjoys more success than befell their German counterparts nearly sixty years earlier. Unlike the Suviets, the present occupiers of Traq will not level and burn a city block, and round up, draft, shoot, or imprison the military aged men and rape the women unfortunate enough to have had a neighbor who had hidden a uniform or weapon. Maybe the problem is we're perceived as being too nice.

For a couple of interesting reads, try Ziemke, E: The U.S. Army in the Occupation of Germany 1944-1946
The Center for Military History, United States Army, 4th Ed,1990 and Beevor, A: Berlin:The Downfall
Penguin Press, 1993
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:31 pm
I would add David Clay Large's Berlin New York, Basic Books, 2001.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:34 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Bush, BCCI, Saddam, Noriega, bin Laden, and the Cleanup Wars


You agree with this take, Gel'?

Gelisgesti wrote:
The Desert Storm war never accomplished any of its supposed goals. Kuwait does not have 'democracy,'


The war, I believe, was in principle to liberate Kuwait from occupation (and return to the status quo ante). Democracy would be a mere added benefit.

Gelisgesti wrote:
and the Kurds who were incited to rise up against him received no U.S. help when Republican Guard American-made attack helicopters mowed them down.


That should read "the Shi'ites", I think. The Kurds ended up pretty safe (from Saddam, in any case), after the '91 ceasefire, in their own autonomous zone. It was the Shi'ites who rebelled after the end of the first Gulf War and were then mowed down from the helicopters.

Gelisgesti wrote:
Saddam's chemical and nuclear arsenal were never eliminated.


So ... he still had them? When this war broke out? Support for the casus belli as Bush would have it from unexpected quarters, here ...
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:36 pm
The Kurds were gassed like rats.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:41 pm
Sofia wrote:
The Kurds were gassed like rats.

Indeed. In the 1980s. Under Ronnie Ray-gun.
I do, however, recall hearing of a Kurd uprising that was encouraged by Bush I along with the Shi'ite uprising.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:44 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Sofia wrote:
The Kurds were gassed like rats.

Indeed. In the 1980s. Under Ronnie Ray-gun.
I do, however, recall hearing of a Kurd uprising that was encouraged by Bush I along with the Shi'ite uprising.


Yep. I was coming back to say that. I just bristled at the words the Kurds were safe. They were never safe, IMO.


From Slate...
For Kurds, getting screwed is a tradition. Great Britain, France, and Italy screwed the Kurds in 1920 when the Treaty of Sèvres divvied up the Ottoman Empire without making a firm commitment to create a Kurdish state. Modern Turkey screwed the Kurds in 1923 by ignoring what faint assurances had been made at Sèvres and putting down a Kurdish rebellion and, subsequently, by suppressing Kurdish language and culture. (Kurdish rebellions were also put down by Iraq in 1923 and 1932.) Iran screwed the Kurds in 1947 by wiping out the nascent Soviet-backed Kurdish republic of Mahabad; screwed them again in 1975 when it ended a brief alliance with the Kurds against their common enemy, Iraq; and screwed them a third time in 1979 when the newly installed Ayatollah Khomeini cracked down on an autonomous Kurdish enclave in Iran. Iraq screwed the Kurds by failing to abide by a 1970 agreement to grant them autonomy; screwed them again by driving Kurds across the border into Iran in 1974 and 1991;
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 08:46 pm
the Kurds are still being "cleansed," now by our buddy Turkey. Sad
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 09:03 pm
As a people, the Kurds have lived in what is the mountainous border regions of what has become present day Iraq, Turkey, and Iran for over a millenium. As they are nomadic folk, the post-Ottoman-Empire national boundries present them with considerable cause for irritation, apart from the fact that screwing the Kurds over has been a popular regional pastime for centuries. They have no historic reason to trust anyone.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 09:07 pm
Its a disgrace.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 09:24 pm
Yep, all true - thats why I wrote that, considering that historical record of treatment by the Iraqis, the Turks and the whoevers, they've been relatively "pretty safe (from Saddam, in any case), after the '91 ceasefire, in their own autonomous zone". Perhaps even one of the better arrangements they've enjoyed, so far, actually.

No need to start throwing dramatic rhetorics at me over that. Unless there's anything specific in that sentence that you actually disagree with.

Anyway, I had a good thread on the Kurds way back when, shortly after I first came to A2K - lemme look it up - http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5258 . There's two interesting articles linked in there - the one I started it with and the Monde Diplo(matique) one.

Also - and less polemically - once translated a long, very moving testimony of a Kurdish-Iraqi refugee that was published here, for my "Iraqi exile views" thread - see http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=180870#180870 .
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 09:32 pm
edited above to correct link
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 09:40 pm
Nope, still didnt work (the second link, which should go to the ibrahim selman translation) - but now it does. Was an extremely interesting thread to keep up, overall, btw.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 11:31 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Following the Nazi collapse, Germany was an unpredictable, violent place for quite some time.
Hitler's Werewolves never amounted to much, but their post-war anti-occupation terror-and-sabotage campaign had been planned meticulously, down to the prepositioning of arms and munitions. In large part, the failure of the Werewolves was due to the pragmatic nature of Soviet De-Nazification: all military age males were suspect, and those unable to convince the skeptical Soviet Army and NKVD interrogators of the absolute certainty of their future cooperation were shot, marched off to The Gulags, or imprisoned within Germany. It became quite evident to the Germans, Werewolves, ex-military, and just-plain-man-in-the-street alike that resistance, particularly to the Soviets, was futile; many would-have-been resistors went to great, and often unfufilled, effort to surrender to US or British forces. Surrendering to the French was considered almost as risk-prone as falling to the Soviets, and for cause. Banditry and brigandry were common, a black market thrived (far more money was transfered by Allied Occupation troops from Germay to accounts in their respective homelands than was paid to those troops by their governments), certain neighborhoods or districts were so dangerous for Occupying troops that they were "Off Limits", entered only by armed patrols on full war alert. There were assaults, murders, robberies, lootings, bombings, arsons, kidnappings, and assorted other mayhem aplenty even without organized resistance (to be fair, the occupying troops evidenced a bit of violent criminality as well ... rapes, robberies, assaults, and the like). Commanders of US combat units pressed into occupation and pacification duty bemoaned the sad state of equipment that had fought non-stop from Normandy all the way into Germany, the scarcity of repair facillities and replacement parts, and the ill-suitedness of combat troops to the task of overseeing civil affairs. Troops were griping that "We've done our share. The war is over and we should be at home now", and there was considerable clamor at home to get them home the sooner the better.


Certainly, German view about this will be biased, historians here see it therefore a little bit different, survivors see those days in their own, personal views.

So, I just quote an US-American article (one of a couple with similar content) as response to the above:

Quote:
Werewolves? Must be a full moon

By Tom Blackburn, Palm Beach Post Editorial Writer
Monday, September 1, 2003

As Gen. George S. Patton's 3rd Army roared past the vineyards toward Wittlich, near Trier in Germany's Mosel Valley, burghers decided that the war was over. White flags flew from windows, and a 12-year-old boy waving a bedsheet ran to meet the advancing GIs, shouting in his best English, "We surnder, we surnder!"

That's how it went in Germany in 1945. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice spun a very different story last week to the Veterans of Foreign Wars last week. "You will recall," Mr. Rumsfeld said, "that some dead-enders fought on during and after the defeat of the Nazi regime in Germany." Ms. Rice said, "SS officers, called Werewolves, engaged in sabotage and attacked both coalition forces and those local forces cooperating with them -- much like today's Baathist and Fedayeen remnants."

On the same day, and relying on the same invented history, both of them invoked the "Werewolves" to make it seem that chaotic postwar Iraq is no different than postwar Germany.

"They and other Nazi remnants," Mr. Rumsfeld said, "targeted allied soldiers, and they targeted Germans who cooperated with allied forces. Mayors were assassinated, including the American-appointed mayor of Aachen, the first major German city to be liberated."

Werewolves? They were to today's Iraq what the Terminator is to Gen. Patton.

Nazi Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels dreamed them up, along with an Alpine Redoubt from which the Nazis would fight for 100 years. To be prudent, the Allies had to take the threats seriously. But Goebbels was a failed novelist before he got a government job. He poisoned his children, who could have grown up to be Werewolves, and killed himself in Berlin before the Russians arrived.

At the same time, most Germans were learning to say "We surrender."

In an impressionistic account of the last days of the Third Reich, Scenes from the End (2000), Frank Manuel, who was an intelligence officer, re-created an interview with an enemy counterpart in Rothenberg:

"Speaking frankly, do you think we will have much trouble with the Werewolf?"

"Well, speaking frankly, as you ask me to, I think it all depends on how you treat the little Michels. If you feed them enough and treat them well, the Werewolf will not get very far." (Little Michel is the German equivalent of Joe Sixpack.)

Which is how it turned out. "The Werewolves existed more in the idea or the fantasy stage than ever as a real phenomenon," Lt. Col. Kevin Farrell, a historian at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, told the Los Angeles Times.

"The Werewolves existed more in fiction than in fact, being primarily the fictional creation of... Goebbels," says the standard World War II encyclopedia by Norman Polmar and Thomas B. Allen.

The Allied-installed Mayor Franz Oppenhoff of Aachen was assassinated by an SS hit squad after six months in office. Mr. Rumsfeld didn't mention that his death came two months before the war ended. Kids were armed and told to defend their towns, and SS groups hanged or shot Germans who surrendered prematurely. (The Wittlichers waited until the SS left.) But all of that was while the war was still on.

Gen. Dwight Eisenhower cabled -- from a schoolhouse, not the deck of an aircraft carrier -- "The mission of this Allied force was fulfilled at 0241, local time, May 7th, 1945." After that, medics dealt with the diseases of fraternization, not battle casualties.

A mere handful of true believers needed further persuasion after May 7. The stories the Bush officials told to the VFW were war stories.

In his memoir Decision in Germany (1950), Gen. Lucius D. Clay, who was military governor of Germany from the start, had nothing to say about Werewolves. There was nothing to say. His top civilian aide, Robert Murphy, recalled (in Diplomat Among Warriors, 1964) that "the Army required extensive German assistance to maintain the cities and villages we had so swiftly overrun. The conquered people obeyed even our severest orders because they considered themselves fortunate to be under western protection."
[...]

from: Palm Beach Post/Opinion
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 11:37 pm
Walter, Some people wants to relive WWII all over again with much false information. How sad. I'm sure there are war-mongers on all sides, but the war between the US and Germany has been over for more than fifty years. Germany and Japan are now our friends. There is no need to inflame people again; the war is over.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Sep, 2003 11:42 pm
Quote:
Where to Find Good News
The big story in Iraq is the little stories.

BY DANIEL HENNINGER
Friday, September 26, 2003 12:01 a.m.

Some 64% of Americans stand firm in support of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq, according to The Wall Street Journal/NBC poll just out. That makes sense. But 51% now oppose Mr. Bush's request for $87 billion to rebuild Iraq. That makes sense, too. What evidence of progress in Iraq have the American people been given to sign another check?
If the people e-mailing and calling this office about Iraq at all mirror these poll numbers, they suggest that many Americans think the situation there can't be as bad as they are reading or seeing on TV but are confused about just what is going on there. Is Iraq as anarchic and homicidal as they've been given to believe the past 12 weeks? Or is something else happening in Iraq as well, something that would justify the moral and financial commitment the U.S. is making to win this war?

More of the media should embed themselves with the Iraqi people outside the Sunni Triangle, rather than inside the Baghdad bunker. But don't blame the media alone for not telling the full postwar story in Iraq. The administration's information effort so far has been poor. On Aug. 8 the White House released a "100 Days" progress report, but there's been little since. This is a shame, because if one makes the effort to dig for news beyond the front-page war deaths, it is hard to escape the conclusion that Baghdad's bad-news tail is wagging the entire Iraqi dog.

The Sunni Triangle in central Iraq--which runs west from Baghdad to Fallujah and Ramadi, north to Tikrit and back down to Baghdad--is beset with diehard Baathists, contract killers and in-migrating jihadists. Out beyond the Baghdad hellhole, however, what one finds is Dodge City after Wyatt Earp cleaned it up. That is, most of Iraq's 26 million people are trying to behave like citizens of a civilized nation, a large change that inevitably reveals itself as the effort to form up Edmund Burke's "little platoons."





"Basrah Moves Towards Religious Stability," reports Ahmed Mukhtar for Iraq Today, a new and useful source of information about the rebuilding--online at www.iraq-today.com, in English. Though the "former regime" tried to foment sectarian conflict in Basra, today Sunni, Shiite and Shakhi Muslims and Christians and Sabeans are trying to create joint self-help societies in the city of 1.4 million. "We regarded ourselves as original Iraqi residents," the Chaldean Christian leader Archbishop Gabriel T. Kassab told Iraq Today. "We had one destiny."
From Najaf, Sarmad S. Ali reports that "Security Efforts Target Foreigners," the "foreigners" being Iranian and Saudi infiltrators. But he also describes the rebuilding of the holy shrine of Imam Ali, which took a hit during a recent bomb attack. The marble work "is being done by Iranian workers who have come from the same quarries where the marble was made." Iraq's Olympic weightlifters, formerly fodder for Uday's amusements, have been invited to a training camp in the U.S.

Even from bloody Baghdad one reads that the Court of First Instance, the Iraqi civil court, is creating procedures to resolve disputes over debts, landlord problems and property confiscated during "the former regime."

But this is news written by Iraqis, who may tend toward hopefulness. Let us turn to a recent, underpublicized report from the U.S. National Democratic Institute, which sent an assessment mission to Iraq this summer (www.ndi.org). NDI's chairman is Madeleine Albright and its advisory committee includes Richard ("miserable failure") Gephardt.

The report's first sentence: "NDI's overwhelming finding--in the north, south, Baghdad and among secular, religious, Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish groups in both urban and rural areas--is a grateful welcoming of the demise of Saddam's regime and a sense that this is a pivotal moment in Iraq's history."

Touring the southern cities of Basra, Nassiriya and Aamara, NDI found, "Despite all of the obstacles, virtually every individual and group NDI met with in southern Iraq perceived this as a time of opportunity. . . . Iraqi citizens in the south demonstrated a hunger for information about the functioning of democracy." In the Kurdish-controlled north, NDI saw "clear evidence of a developing economy, relative security and prosperity and an active civil society and culture. . . . Local municipal councils are active and appear to be working."

The institute's advance delegation called Iraq "fertile ground for democracy promotion initiatives on a scale not seen since the heady days of the fall of the Berlin Wall." Sounds like a good story.

An American officer who worked on reconstruction in Mosul, well north of Baghdad, told me of meeting with young Muslawi lawyers who now want help forming a Mosul bar association and developing a modern system of defendants' rights. The Americans who lectured at the university in Mosul generally spoke in English because so many Iraqi professors speak English. The successes in Mosul, with two million people, are now being taken to smaller towns in the Nineveh province, generally with around 40,000 people.

About 10 days ago, some 140 delegates from eight districts in Salah-ad-Din province chose an interim governing council. The new council's members include a Shia woman from Bayji, tribal sheiks from Dujayl, religious leaders from Samarra and Kurdish and Turkmen members from Tuz. They of course posed afterward for group photographs.

Paul Bremer's Baghdad office is now, at last, assembling this information. In a world with an infinity of Web sites, the U.S. government should be able to create just one dedicated to this great story. The U.S. Central Command has a decent one at www.centcom.mil. If the press wants to debunk them, feel free; better that than nothing. The little stories of Iraq's rebuilding may not make the front page, but I know a lot of people who would like to read them, no matter where they appear.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110004067


I suspect more of this flavor will be served in the coming weeks and months.
0 Replies
 
 

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