0
   

The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 12:49 am
I read the links- Thank you Mc Tag-
The links were from the Toronto Star and the Arkansas Gazette.

Both of them indicated that Lt. Col, George Kriva said US soldiers fired only after being attaked from a truck by "Unknown forces">

The US Military has launched an investigation.

Therefore, until the investigation is completed, I must take the Lt. Col.'s statement at face value.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 12:58 am
In The Independent, UK, on Fri or Sat there was a leader article by Robt Fisk which hinted at an underlying conspiracy (and in the absence of any will by the occupying force to investigate and report, i guess we'll never know) that it was Americans who had fired on the Iraqui police HQ in order to demonstrate that there could be no security unless provided by the US (they had already been excluded from the place) and then they led the pursuing police vehicles into a roadblock ambush. This happened outside a building where some Jordanians were stationed and the resulting firefight went on for hours, in the dark.
Iraqi sources told Fisk about this. The US said nothing. Apart from expressing "regret".
So, another bloody mystery.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 01:08 am
This was the article I referred to; Saturday's Independent...but it's archived now I see.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/story.jsp?story=442890

It was the lead article, front page, national newspaper.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 01:38 am
Italgato wrote:
Thank You , McTag. I did not know that. They looked like headlines to me.

I appreciate your "heads-up"


Ignorance is an excuse?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 04:16 am
"I must ask, Dear Professor, why do you insist on giving us columns written by foreigners who understand nothing of the complex dynamics in the United States?".

Great quote Italgato, keep up the good work! Laughing
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 04:21 am
I would be interested to learn of your definition of a "foreigner"
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 04:48 am
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/hhah_lg.gif
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 05:09 am
Gato, is there any chance you are blonde? Wink
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 05:11 am
Laughing
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 05:48 am
George Bush has us pretty much fu*ked

The U.S. Army division that perhaps worries Pentagon force planners the most is the 101st Airborne, and this worry goes a long way toward explaining why senior uniformed Army leaders have begun talking publicly about the need to increase total Army troop strength for the first time in decades. By the time of its scheduled relief in February-March 2004, the 101st will be one of the first divisions to have experienced the Army's new one-year deployment cycle, twice as long as the six-month deployments that are the norm for Navy, Marine, and Air Force units. What really concerns Army force planners, however, is that the division scheduled to relieve the 101st?-an international division that is supposed to be made up of foreign troops in America's Iraq coalition?-is nowhere to be found.


http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0903/090803nj1.htm
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 06:15 am
In other war's there were practically no rotations, being gone over two years was normal and that was during a time when we supposedly had a sufficient number of troops, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Ajustments will have to be made to the military's infrastructure overall, it has been geared to fight a certain kind of war using a bunch of techy gizmo's, not this kind of conflict as we are quickly learning.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 06:33 am
It always comes down to the grunt and that means numbers. Body armor in 120 degee heat is hardly state of the art.
If Iraq is that much a threat, bring back the draft.
If Iraq is merely a financial issue ....... bring back our boys and girls.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 07:18 am
If Bush is re-elected I think the draft will return, unless the resolve of Americans about this, and future related conflicts, bring about more volunteers. I don't think this administration wants to even think about reinstituting it now.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 08:12 am
What on earth are these people smoking???NYTIMES
Quote:

Powell Cautious on Iraq Timetable
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN

AGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 14 ?- Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, pressed by France and by some Iraqis to agree to a speedier timetable toward self-government in Iraq, cautioned here today that the process of restoring sovereignty had to be carried out in stages and that it might not be seen as legitimate if it went too rapidly.

Speaking after meetings with leaders of the American-led occupation and with the 25-member Iraqi Governing Council, which was handpicked by American authorities, Mr. Powell also said he had found that more progress was being made in securing and rebuilding Iraq than had been emphasized in news reports, mentioning for example new parent-teacher groups at local schools.

He said he was impressed by the determination of council members to gain control of their country as quickly as possible, and he said the United States fully supported them. "This is how you build a government," he said, describing a process in which Iraqis take on "more and more responsibilities" over time.

Let me guess, returning Iraqi sovereignty too quickly might deprive US corporations of their share of the pie. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 08:13 am
Brand X wrote:
If Bush is re-elected I think the draft will return, unless the resolve of Americans about this, and future related conflicts, bring about more volunteers. I don't think this administration wants to even think about reinstituting it now.


With 50% of our fighting force already deployed overseas, with Reservists acquiring new reservations about signing and re-signing, and with the hegemonistic intentions of the PNAC-motivated Department of Defense in full flower (where is the next war to be fought?), I gotta agree with the Brandman.

Conscription is coming--unless we turn the Republican rascals out and find a new way to deal with a New World that includes less warring.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 08:19 am
Here comes the draft. SadNY Times
Quote:

For Citizen Soldiers, an Unexpected Burden
By SARAH KERSHAW

AYWARD, Calif., Sept. 14 ?- Mike Gorski thought he was done with active military duty when he left the Marines for civilian life more than a decade ago and signed on with the National Guard a few years later.

A banker with a new wife, Kim, and a new house here, Mr. Gorski, 33, knew that he would have to spend one weekend a month in training and two weeks a year on active duty. There was always the possibility of being called up for perhaps one six-month deployment.

But since the 9/11 attacks, Mr. Gorski, a staff sergeant with the 870th Military Police Company of the California National Guard, has spent 16 months away from home, first at an Army base in Tacoma, Wash., and most recently in the southern Iraqi city of Karbala. He is likely to spend eight more months in Iraq, and he has decided to leave the National Guard as soon as he can.

"It's just like being on active duty," he said in a telephone interview from Karbala, where 125 members of his company are stationed. "And there's a reason you get out of active duty. At the same time, you want to stay because of patriotism, so you join the National Guard or the reserves. All the guys are prepared for one deployment, especially in the wake of Sept. 11. But we've basically returned to active duty, and that's not what we're in for. It's too much to ask."

[My old Guard unit has been active since late 2001. Not a good thing.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 09:05 am
Written by a troopr/bloger in Iraq ....



http://turningtables.blogspot.com/





..9.12.2003...

thank paul woodward of warincontext.org for this interview
Posted by: moja / 22:29
i'm writing from my tailgate...it's dark...the mosquitoes are bad...one of my best friends on earth...laub...he just left...he came over to my site and spent most of the evening with me...it was a good way to wrap this up...thinking and talking about old times...old parties...old friends...he just left...i may or may not see him again...it's hard to tell...i hope i do...i hope i see a lot of these guys again...my heat baby...willie b....big sexxy...oscar...who knows what the future holds...

i've been thinking about how i should wrap this up...i've actually given thought to what i should say...you should all know that i never think about what i'm going to write...it just kind of starts with a sentence...and a page and half later...it's done...i usually proof read about 9 times...but still the miss spellings will sneak through...i try my best...i really do...

there is a surreal feeling in knowing that this is my last night in the 'rak'...that by this time next week...i will be in my woman's arms...that i will be home...and i will never have to leave again for something like this...it's a big feeling...calming in a nervous kind of way...jumpy while at peace...

i thought i should try to explain my confusion...to really lay it on the line...i think you all deserve that...especially you 'o.g.'s out there...the ones that have been reading since the beginning...and the ones i write to pretty often...you know who you are...

someone emailed me the other day and started this train of thought with in my big head...they used some terms that made me understand my confusion...my confusion was confusing...he used the words 'macro' and 'micro'...these words hit the problems square on the nose...and i nod an affirmative towards them...

to many i'm sure that it would appear that i can not see the 'macro' good that is attempting to come through with this war...the bigger picture...but i do...i know that saddam was a horrendous tyrant...capable of anything...holding his country at knife point...slaughtering...kidnapping...freighting...
this country was not free..and it was being taken advantage of...it was being reaped...and it seems as though only a few would see the rewards...those in favor with the big guy...america liked him...with the old adage of 'the enemy of my enemy...'...but that adage is not the best to ever come out of someone's mouth...and it creates problems...just like in afghanistan...we create problems...we have to deal with them...it's not fair...but that is the way it is...i look at iraq now...and i know that they were not in a black hole...they lived somewhat normal lives in comparison to us...the u.s....they did have internet even if it was monitored and fire walled...they did not have television as we know it from what i've read...i'm sure the t.v. waves snuck through to some...but not all...they did not have some very basic freedoms that we take for granted...i read an article by salam...he actually feared for his life while writing his journal...he feared for his family...and he risked their lives by putting his feelings out there...the feelings that we all could relate to...the feelings that said..."we aren't so different...you and i"...

there are mass graves being unearthed...there are people digging through them...trying desperately to find long since gone loved ones...i can't even imagine...yes i can...

i do think that iraq will one day be better...i do think that this country will enjoy basic freedoms...and i hope they will be able to take advantage of them...with out intervention from any outside source...they deserve it...because they are not all terrorists/freedom fighters/militants/what ever...they are people...and they hurt...and they worry...and they sweat...and they work...and they provide as best they can...that's what we do...all of us...

and maybe that is why the 'micro' problems hurt me so...because i see now...like i've never seen before...the blinders are off...the eyes are wide...my heart is open...gut wrenching...and horrible...a problem we caused...that we have to end...and i wonder...at what cost...how many more will die...how many more will fight...how many more will feel the unquenched disbelief at this new situation...this situation that isn't exactly panning out like we might have imagined...i here the small arms fire...i feel the explosions...the 'micro' has slapped me in the face everyday that i woke up here...it has affected me...it will continue to affect for the rest of my life...i know all to well that people...iraqis...and americans...are dying everyday...i see the smoke from the car bombs...i feel the hurt in my heart...

they are dying here...these people...humans...us...

i have felt...on a few occasions...an extreme relief...a overwhelming peace...a mind-blowing simplicity...i have realized in nights of thought and self reflection...that every particle...every moment...every act...and every life...that has ever existed throughout the dawning of all and everything has worked to bring you...me...and us...to this exact moment in time...and who are we to waste that...who are we to throw away such an opportunity...to see the other side...to feel one another's pain...to work for a better tomorrow...to make good on bad decisions...

i know that the world is hard...i know that iraq is worse then it was 6 months ago...in terms of just about everything...but i have to believe that it will turn around...someday...i have to believe it in my heart...that i was apart of something good...no matter it's perceived reasoning...no matter what...i have to believe that i have worked to do the right thing in this country so far from my home...because how could i live with myself any other way...

my walk is almost over...but the journey is far from complete...

this is moja_vera...live from baghdad...

peace in the middle east 2003
Posted by: moja / 21:33
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 11:32 am
Where is the next war going to be? Thats a difficult one, so many options. Not Iran or Syria, those regimes will probably fall of their own accord. (With a little pushing). Probably Korea to provoke China, then China proper over Taiwan and Tibet. Yes you will certainly need conscription. What's the betting that old favourite Osama bin Laden finds a comfy cave in Xinjiang province?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 01:41 pm
Quote:
"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, ...would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, there was no viable ?'exit strategy' we could see, violating another of our principles. Going in and occupying Iraq,...would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome."

-- George H. W. Bush, in his 1998 book A World Transformed
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2003 01:50 pm
hobitbob wrote:
What on earth are these people smoking???NYTIMES
Quote:

Powell Cautious on Iraq Timetable
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN

AGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 14 ?- Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, pressed by France and by some Iraqis to agree to a speedier timetable toward self-government in Iraq, cautioned here today that the process of restoring sovereignty had to be carried out in stages and that it might not be seen as legitimate if it went too rapidly.

Speaking after meetings with leaders of the American-led occupation and with the 25-member Iraqi Governing Council, which was handpicked by American authorities, Mr. Powell also said he had found that more progress was being made in securing and rebuilding Iraq than had been emphasized in news reports, mentioning for example new parent-teacher groups at local schools.

He said he was impressed by the determination of council members to gain control of their country as quickly as possible, and he said the United States fully supported them. "This is how you build a government," he said, describing a process in which Iraqis take on "more and more responsibilities" over time.

Let me guess, returning Iraqi sovereignty too quickly might deprive US corporations of their share of the pie. Rolling Eyes


He may have been pandering to the French who said they want everything turned over to the Iraqi's in 30 days. I don't see the U.S. going for that, so much for the new resolution.

I gathered from all the weekend rhetoric that Rum, Bush and Powell have pretty much come to this realization.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 03/05/2026 at 04:59:19