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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 08:52 pm
If you are pissed about the aarp's endorsement of the republican medicare bill go here
Moderation or 'modulation'?
In any event url has been removed.






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0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 09:00 pm
Gels, I just hope that including my email address doesn't end up with more SPAM. c.ii.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 09:28 pm
Quote:
(November 20, 2003 -- 06:44 PM EDT // link // print)
Marvelous, marvelous piece on Dick Cheney by Frank Foer and Spencer Ackerman in the new issue of The New Republic.

I can't say enough good things about this piece.

It not only goes into fascinating detail about the back-and-forth between Cheney's Office of the Vice President and the CIA over the last two years, it also gives an insightful reading of the evolution of Cheney's own foreign policy views going back into the mid-1980s, placing that development in a sometimes rightly sympathetic light.

I think I have some quibbles with Foer's and Ackerman's judgment about the role of 9/11 as a transformative event for Cheney. But that's a small difference of opinion, and one I'm going to need to give some more thought to, before I make a final judgment.

But for now this is the piece on Cheney, the intel wars, and Iraq. It convinces me even more of something I've thought for some time: that Cheney's office is a rogue operation in this administration and one with the defining influence.

-- Josh Marshall


SOURCE

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT WEB SITE WITH QUITE A FEW EXCELLENT ARTICLES .... ENJOY
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 09:58 pm
A great protest picture:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20031120/lthumb.sge.gys32.201103191538.photo02.default-370x276.jpg

caption: Demonstrators dressed as a secret service agent (L), two Guantanamo Bay detainees (C kneeling), Tony Blair (3rd R), a US soldier (2nd R) and George W. Bush are part of an estimated 100,000 protesters in London.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 10:41 pm
Quote:
Wrong demo, wrong day,
wrong place
[/u]



Bush ... standing firm

IF they'd had a shred of decency, the demonstrators in London yesterday would have rolled up their banners, put away their whistles, taken off their masks and gone home.

A minute's silence before they dispersed as a mark of respect for those slaughtered and maimed in Istanbul might have been appropriate.

Because if ever a protest was being held in the wrong place, at the wrong time, on the wrong day, this was it.

Is it too much to hope that the carnage in Turkey gave any of them pause for thought?

Did it cross their minds that the real men of violence, the real threat to world peace, are not the

democratically-elected President of the USA, or the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, but the deranged, hate-filled, fundamentalist killers who lurk in the shadows?

Probably not.

The protesters are so blinkered, so self-righteous, so bigoted against America, that they can't begin to understand that while the homicide bombers were bringing death and destruction to the streets of Istanbul, they were doing their bit for terrorism on the streets of London.

Every single one of the useful idiots marching yesterday is a foot soldier for rogue states, tyranny, al-Qa'ida and the forces of Islamofascism.

However ludicrous London mayor Ken Livingstone may sound here when he denounces George W Bush as the greatest threat to world peace ever, his words when beamed around the world by satellite give heart to those who wish to destroy us.

Will Livingstone still be blaming Bush and Blair when the kind of explosion we saw in Istanbul yesterday rips through the Christmas shopping crowds in Oxford Street or blows Birmingham's rebuilt Bull Ring to kingdom come?

The attacks in Turkey were aimed at us just as surely as if the terrorists had driven a truck bomb straight into Nelson's Column yesterday afternoon.

The fact that Trafalgar Square was playing host to an anti-Bush demo wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference.

Their banners would have been no more of a deterrent than Lambeth Council declaring itself a nuclear-free zone at the height of the Cold War would have saved South London from a Soviet missile.

Terrorists don't stop to read T-shirts. They don't care who they kill.

Imperialist capitalist running dogs or the Tooting Popular Front.

Wolfowitz or Wolfie Smith, it's all the same to them.

If they thought they could have got away with it, the terrorists would have taken out central

London, demonstration or no demonstration. Bring on the 72 virgins.

Instead they chose a softer target, Istanbul, just as they did last weekend. The fact that Turkey is an Islamic society didn't stop them.

Although their primary targets were Jewish and British, they don't mind killing brother Muslims.

In a commanding speech in London, President Bush couldn't have spelt out the reality more clearly if the screens of his teleprompter had been blown from purest Waterford.

The only shame was that he couldn't make the speech to the joint Houses of Parliament because some MPs couldn't be guaranteed to behave themselves.

The schoolkids on yesterday's march can be forgiven their naivety. The grown-ups and the politicians who encouraged them can't.

If they really wanted to protest against murder and international terror they chose the wrong route.

They should have headed to the Finsbury Park mosque, where Captain Hook still peddles his hatred, or the North London base of al-

Muhajiroun, the extremist organisation which celebrates 9/11 and boasts of recruiting impressionable young Muslim men for holy war against the West.

But then, as I said, if they had a shred of decency . . .
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 11:03 pm
Quote:
If they really wanted to protest against murder and international terror they chose the wrong route.

They should have headed to the Finsbury Park mosque, where Captain Hook still peddles his hatred, or the North London base of al-

Muhajiroun, the extremist organisation which celebrates 9/11 and boasts of recruiting impressionable young Muslim men for holy war against the West.

Racist drivel. Not worthy of your usually lucid rhetoric.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 11:08 pm
I just found it, I didn't write it, hbob, but thanks for the comment re my "usually lucid rhetoric".
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 01:20 am
Kara wrote:
Walter and Steve, what is this Ros thing? An inside joke?


Kind of :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 01:24 am
It's always a little bit amusing that Murdoch's "naked tabloids" are now so often quoted - I hope, timber, you didn't find that article from "page 3" backwards!

Laughing
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 04:10 am
And Timber, do you think the UK Ambassador and 450 innocent Turks would have been blown up yesterday if Bushie had not been in London, publicising his war?

I agree that some people should pack up and go quietly home, but it should not be the anti-war protestors.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 05:31 am
This "Ros thing" is my dear wife, Kara, who commented that Walter's brother writing a PhD thesis on USSR does not make him (Walter) an expert by association; whilst wearing antlers (artifical - red and green)and looking forward to our visit to the Christmas market in Lippstadt. Laughing Hope that makes sense. On reflection perhaps it and this could be better said by private message as the connection with Iraq is somewhat tenuous Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 05:50 am
Timber I didn't know you read the Sun. Most only look at page 3.

Richard Littlejohn knows a lot about Tottenham Hotspur, and can pen a few sarcastic words (sometimes very funny) about any topic his masters at News International want, but take my advice, stay with page 3. (I was going to say stick with page 3, but then page 3 is often quite sticky) Laughing
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 06:15 am
this is a serious question(s)

Just what is it we have done that has so annoyed these Islamic militants that they are prepared to blow us up and kill themselves and many fellow Muslims in the process? Or is it just that they really really really don't like us. Because they've read it in a Book.

If we stop annoying them will they stop killing us, or are they determined to go on and on until the Great Satan and its running dog (well poodle) are defeated and Sharia law prevails world wide?

Blair says you can't negotiate with these people. But I would really like to find out what it is they would like us to do or not do which would make them stop killing us.

Alternatively are the outrages just symptoms of an underlying disease, and if so what is that disease, and how do we cure it?

Answers please on the back of a post card to GWB c/o TB The Cock and Magpie, Sedgefield Co Durham England.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 06:46 am
The consensus use to be that the Islamic radicals were taught to kill the infidels, but it seems this desperate bunch won't blink an eye about killing Muslims or anyone.

I really can't wrap my mind around what they think, what they are trying to accomplish or anything. It just seems like mindless killing based on some crude and horrible brainwashing.

They apparently have always been constant training for some kind of holy battle, but why, when? it's beyond me.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 07:27 am
The way it is .................. I can not concieve of living there.

Quote:
i hate english i hate writing in english whatever.. salam you cannot imagine the scene at AnNasryya, i mean .. It's not just about the italians' building .. It's about the entire neighborhood! Houses in the circle of 1000 meter are living without windows, without doors, and with cracks in their walls. The explosion was so huge that it blow off the doors and fences and trees of all the neighbours .. do u like more details? ok Smile two people crossed the bridge with that very old water tanker (made in 1950s), and the man "with beard" sitting on the left went out from the window and started shooting on the italian guards and killed them, and the car went directly into the main door of the building killing everyone in the street and most of the italians, italian soldiers heads were found hundreds of meters away from he explosion! brrrrooohhh .. and some iraqi's were burned in their cars in the middle of the street. The "funny" thing that looting started five minutes later, all the machine guns and pistols disappeared in minutes and you can get a cool italiano pistol for $250 now in the gun markets of Nasryya. Abbas (u know him, the restaurant owner..) saw some people steeling a ring from the finger of a dead italian body with no head! brrrrroooohhh .. and ,, that's it i believe. (how can i start a new paragraph here?) ok .. (conceder this as new paragraph) .. i want a shoe (like the black one with a hole in its bottom that u used to have) and another couple of horny stuff.. i broke up with S. and feeling depressed .. mmm .. i bought a new Mercedes car (ML 430) .. call me .. bye
:: raed 3:50 PM [+] ::


SOURCE
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 07:39 am
Quote:
Then Sofia came up with proof that Bush did "visit families", at least back in April, when he still had overwhelming approval rates. Then, after I commented on the date of that proof, Fishin' came up with an example of where Bush had done the same thing, just recently.


Yikes! I do apologize. I've had much less time over the last few days to keep up with posts, and I missed each of these you reference. Claim withdrawn.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 07:47 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
this is a serious question(s)

Just what is it we have done that has so annoyed these Islamic militants that they are prepared to blow us up and kill themselves and many fellow Muslims in the process? Or is it just that they really really really don't like us. Because they've read it in a Book.


We've gotten in the way of them killing, maiming, and oppressing their own. There are some who use the book to whip them up. There are some that think its a religious matter. They are encouraged by socio-political thugs to go play "Lets you and him fight". When is the last time you heard of a Mullah as the guest of honor at a suicide bombing?

Quote:
If we stop annoying them will they stop killing us, or are they determined to go on and on until the Great Satan and its running dog (well poodle) are defeated and Sharia law prevails world wide?


By the pronouncements of those who send their fervent faithful off to die in the process of terrorising the innocent and otherwise uninvolved, precisely.

Quote:
Blair says you can't negotiate with these people. But I would really like to find out what it is they would like us to do or not do which would make them stop killing us.

Alternatively are the outrages just symptoms of an underlying disease, and if so what is that disease, and how do we cure it?


Think about that a moment. See above.

Quote:
Answers please on the back of a post card to GWB c/o TB The Cock and Magpie, Sedgefield Co Durham England.


Its not a joke, and it isn't going away untill the people of the Mideast have real opportunity, education, and liberty. We didn't start this ... unless you consider our having outlived The Caliphate an act of aggression. They ... and "They" is a small fraction of the people of the Islamic faith ... are in it to the finish, whether you find that pleasnt or convenient or otherwise. "They" will press their followers to fight to the death untill their followers are enabled and empowered to become participants and partners in the Developed World, as opposed to their current condition of being gun fodder for those who's twisted sense of religio-political despotism drive them on.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 08:41 am
Timber, Some questions popped into my head while reading your post. ...



timberlandko wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
this is a serious question(s)

Just what is it we have done that has so annoyed these Islamic militants that they are prepared to blow us up and kill themselves and many fellow Muslims in the process? Or is it just that they really really really don't like us. Because they've read it in a Book.


Quote:
We've gotten in the way of them killing, maiming, and oppressing their own. ????by killing, maiming, and oppressing????


There are some who use the book to whip them up. There are some that think its a religious matter. They are encouraged by socio-political thugs to go play "Lets you and him fight". When is the last time you heard of a Mullah as the guest of honor at a suicide bombing?

Quote:
Whoa .... religious socio-political thugs that go by the book ....whoa



Quote:
If we stop annoying them will they stop killing us, or are they determined to go on and on until the Great Satan and its running dog (well poodle) are defeated and Sharia law prevails world wide?


By the pronouncements of those who send their fervent faithful off to die in the process of terrorising the innocent and otherwise uninvolved, precisely.


Quote:
It's much much more efficient to drop a one ton bomb on the innocents. Plus it helps out those wonderful people in the 'Carlyle' group.
After all, they gassed their own people. Dead is dead right?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 08:54 am
Gel wrote:
So we are in a 'last man standing' situation? If that is true then why not nuke? Aftter all, they or "they" gassed their own people. Dead is dead right?


Hardly, but such hyperbole and misapprehension of reality is indicative of the dire need for education and understanding. The small, twisted, reactionary fraction of "They" ARE "In it 'till the last man standing" by their own declaration. "They" started the fight, "They" set their terms, "They" brought the fight to us. That will be "Their" undoing. What is required, and what is being done, is to assure that the far, far greater portion of The Islamic World, and, of course, of the Civilized World are freed of "Their" hateful tyrany, which places theologic hegemony above all other value and right. It is not a simple issue. It offers no pleasant remedy. It is war.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 09:01 am
Is it possible to eradicate those that are teaching the killing religion, therefor eradicating that whole twisted ideology? Showing current followers and future generations that it is in fact a 'dead' end and nothing more.
0 Replies
 
 

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