0
   

The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 11:49 am
Kara your post about the persuasiveness (is that a word?) of Blair.

Blair is a SUPERB politician. He's clever, he can master a brief in a moment, he has a charming self deprecating sense of humour he doesn't talk down to people and most of all he is the consumate actor.

He comes across as genuinely sincere because the part requires genuine sincerity.

I still find it hard not to like the guy. The Labour Government has done a lot of good here and Blair can take a lot of credit, but his clanging gobsmacking headbanging mistake (imo) was that he had the choice to be a leader in Europe or a follower of America, and he made the wrong call.

In his Guildhall speech 2 days ago, he was yet again going on about the twin pillars of Britain's foreign policy...membership of the EU and the American alliance. He sees Britain as the vital bridge, with a foot in both camps. Maybe he's right. I hope he is.

But there is another way of looking at such a strategy which invites distrust from both sides. The neocons in the US cant stand him because they blame him for pursuading Bush to go the UN route (which in turn they blame for the messy outcome in Iraq...after all it couldn't be their fault could it?) and Blair is equally despised by the Germans French and Russians for playing the part of Bush's poodle. A classic case of trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing none of them. That's pretty much in character for Blair. He's so convinced of his own correct view, and his powers of persuasion that he he believes he can get anyone to get inside his big tent.

There's a joke going round about Blair and Brown (his famously moody chancellor). Blair cant sack him, but neither can he stand his veilled attacks on his policy. With reference to tents and (er urination, sorry) Blair has the worst of both worlds. Brown is inside the tent pissing in! Laughing
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 12:27 pm
Interesting that folks who ignore what I have to say have so much to say about what I say. Steve, as to "Blame" for the Italian losses, in the end that blame falls first to the insurgents, and at end ultimately devolves up through the entire chain of command all the way to CENTCOM, which bears overall resposibility for Coalition Forces Security, and beyond, inclusive of The Pentagon and The Whitehouse and Rome. I don't single out the Italians, nor do I exclude them. They merely share in the responibility for the tragedy. I am furious that the lessons so plainly delivered by the attacks on The UN and the ICRC have not adequately been heeded. If one is engaging an enemy, one is to is incumbent upon Command to crtically examine its own asset dispositions with intent to wherever practicable determine, and deny to the enemy, opportunities to exploit. This most recent bombing reflects badly on all. I sincerely hope the repetition of the lesson finally drives it home.expect that enemy will seek and exploit advantage where it may be found. It

I've just been looking at street-level maps of the area. Traffic-directing concrete barriers could and should have been emplaced in such manner as to permit relatively normal civilian traffic flow while channeling direct access to the headquarters building through a structure designed to prevent a vehicle from straight-on approach. The obstacle set could and should have been augmented by manned checkpoints with overlapping fields of fire, the garrisons of which should have been equipped both with light and crew-served automatic weapons, and have been covered by rear-emplaced light rocket launchers or mid-caliber anti-armor artillery. The roof of the building would have been ideal for positioning them. Its a warzone, fer chissakes ... treat it like one ... establish and maintain a defensible perimeter. That's the first principle of positional warfare, and it was neglected by everyone but the insurgents.

Deteremining who is to blame for what is of much less urgency than preventing similar occurances.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 01:43 pm
"last gasp effort" : i don't think i'll hold my breath on this one; or it might be my "last gasp". seriously, how long does anyone think this "last gasp" might last ? i would not be willing to bet the house on it. hbg.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 03:35 pm
Steve, pissing inside the tent... Laughing

Quote:
Blair is a SUPERB politician. He's clever, he can master a brief in a moment, he has a charming self deprecating sense of humour he doesn't talk down to people and most of all he is the consumate actor.

He comes across as genuinely sincere because the part requires genuine sincerity.


If I didn't know you were writing about Tony Blair, I would have thought immediately of a recent US president.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 03:53 pm
Tony Blair/Bill Clinton
They sure are similar. They are both difficult to dislike even when one disagrees strongly with many of their policies &/or views. Shrub is just about the opposite.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 04:00 pm
Er who might that be? Oh I know...no don't tell....er big grin...charming articulate, sort of southern guy...let me think...saxaphone...JIMMY CARTER Exclamation Exclamation

What's my prize?
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 04:45 pm
Close counts in horseshoes, Steve. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 04:57 pm
Laughing thanks, I'll add 'em to the collection.

nearly eleven of the clock in the eventide here. Losing much needed beauty sleep..'nite all. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 09:20 pm
Quote:
telegraph.co.uk

'There were dead bodies everywhere, it seemed like the end of the world'

(Filed: 13/11/2003)


Guards opened fire but they could not stop the speeding tanker packed with explosives. Jack Fairweather reports from Nasiriyah


The Italian military compound was the softest of targets. Unlike the fortresses of coalition units in Baghdad, sheltering behind concrete crash barriers, the Italian police station in Nasiriyah had only a few rolls of barbed wire and sandbags to protect it.

Although the scene of some of the heaviest fighting during the war, Nasiriyah has since welcomed foreigners and the Italians were tragically ill-prepared for what was to hit them at 10.40 yesterday morning.


" ... the the Italians were tragically ill-prepared for what was to hit them at 10.40 yesterday morning."
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2003 10:20 pm
Timber, what happened there was so awful. Iraqis died, too.

What if someone had come online after 9-11 and said The Americans were so unprepared. What purpose does such a statement serve.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 01:20 am
timberlandko wrote:

" ... the the Italians were tragically ill-prepared for what was to hit them at 10.40 yesterday morning."


I wonder, timber, if you recall the situation, when and why the Italian right-wing government was able to sent soldiers (and para-militaric police troops) to Iraq: when you look at the papers of those days?
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 04:32 am
Have been reading with some interest the talks abt speeding up the handing over to power to the Iraqis, post the attack on the italian HQ.

The timing of all this discussions makes me feel that the thought process is - "we really can't sort out this mess. Let the Iraqi interim government take care, as well as the blame, for all these attacks going fwd"

Anyone else feels the same way ?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 05:26 am
Links in 'BLUE'

Thursday, November 13, 2003

Iraqi Governing Council...
I have to post this fast. The electrical situation has been hellish today. There's no schedule… in our area the electricity is on 30 minutes for every two hours of no electricity. People suspect it's a sort of punishment for what happened in Nassiryah this morning and the bombings in Baghdad this last week. There were also some huge explosions today- the troops got hit by mortars, I think, and retaliated by bombing something.

Also, Mohammed Bahr Ul Iloom was shot at today. Bahr Ul Iloom is one of the Shia clerics (a 'rotating president') and the father of the Minister of Oil. He was unharmed, it seems, but his driver is wounded. While I'm sure Bahr Ul Iloom would love to blame it on loyalists, Ba'athists and Al-Qaeda, the shots actually came from American troops- it was a 'mistake'. Oops.

Bremer is currently in Washington, explaining why the Governing Council are completely useless. The Washington Post article on the diminishing popularity of the Governing Council came as no surprise:

"The United States is deeply frustrated with its hand-picked council members because they have spent more time on their own political or economic interests than in planning for Iraq's political future, especially selecting a committee to write a new constitution, the officials added."
I think it's safe to say that when you put a bunch of power-hungry people together on a single council (some who have been at war with each other), they're going to try to promote their own interests. They are going to push forward their party members, militias and relatives in an attempt to root themselves in Iraq's future.

"Bremer noted that at least half the council is out of the country at any given time and that at some meetings, only four or five members showed up."

Of course they're outside of the country- many of them don't have ties in it. They have to visit their families and businesses in Europe and North America. For some of them, it sometimes seems like the "Governing Council" is something of an interesting hobby- a nice little diversion in the monthly routine: golf on Saturdays, a movie with the family in London on Fridays, a massage at the spa on Tuesdays, and, oh yes- nation-building for 5 minutes with Bremer on the Xth of each month.

People here never see them. Most live in guarded compounds and one never knows what country they are currently in. For example, Chalabi is presently missing. I haven't seen him on the news for… I don't know how long. If anyone has seen him, please send an email- I'm dying to know what he's up to.

I can imagine Bremer preparing for a meeting with the pioneers of Iraqi democracy, the pillars of liberty… the Iraqi Puppet Council. He strides in with his chic suit, flowing hair and polished shoes (the yellow nation-building boots are only for press conferences and photo shoots in Iraqi provinces). He is all anticipation and eagerness: today will be the day. *This* meeting will be the productive meeting which will make headlines.

He strides into the lavish room, Italian heels clicking on the marble floor- there will be 25 faces today. Twenty-five pairs of adoring eyes will follow him around the room. Twenty-five pairs of eager ears will strain to hear his words of wisdom. Twenty-five faces will light up with… but where are the 25? He stops in the middle of the room, heart sinking, ire rising in leaps and bounds. Why are there only 5 unsure faces? Did he have the schedule wrong? Was this the wrong conference room?!

And Bremer roars and rages- where are the Puppets? Where are the marionettes?! How dare they miss yet another meeting! But they all have their reasons, Mr.Bremer: Talbani is suffering from indigestion after an ample meal last night; Iyad Allawi is scheduled for a pedicure in Switzerland this afternoon; Al-Hakim is jetting around making covert threats to the Gulf countries, and Chalabi says he's not attending meetings anymore, he's left the country and will be back when it's time for the elections…

People have been expecting this for some time now. There's a complete and total lack of communication between the Council members and the people- they are as inaccessible as Bremer or Bush. Their speeches are often in English and hardly ever to the Iraqi public. We hear about new decisions and political and economical maneuverings through the voice-overs of translators while the Council members are simpering at some meeting thousands of miles away.

We need *real* Iraqis- and while many may argue that the Council members are actually real Iraqis, it is important to keep in mind that fine, old adage: not everyone born in a stable is a horse. We need people who aren't just tied to Iraq by some hazy, political ambition. We need people who have histories inside of the country that the population can relate to. People who don't have to be hidden behind cement barriers, barbed wire and an army.

Their failure has nothing to do with attacks on troops or terrorism. It has to do with the fact that many of them are only recommendable because they were apparently very good at running away from a difficult situation- and running into the right arms. Another problem is the fact that decent, intelligent people with political ambition refuse to be a part of this fiasco because everyone senses that the Governing Council cannot do anything on its own. Bremer is the head and he's only the tip of the iceberg- he represents Washington.

A national conference is a good idea, but it will fail as miserably as the Puppet Council, unless… there's a timetable. The occupation forces need to set a definite date saying, "We're going to begin pulling out on *this* month, next year- let's get organized before that." A timetable is vital to any progress, if any is going to be made. Only then, will things begin to move forward.

Prominent, popular politicians and public figures don't want to be tied to American apron strings- this includes lawyers, political scientists, writers, and other well-known people. Not because they are American apron-strings per se, but because this is an occupation (by American admission, no less). No matter how much CNN and the rest try to dress it up as a liberation, the tanks, the troops, the raids, the shootings (accidental or otherwise), and the Puppet Council all scream occupation. If it were French, it'd get the same resistance… just as if it were a Saudi, Egyptian or Iranian occupation.

It is also vital that all interested political parties be allowed to be a part of the national conference. Any political conferences in the past have been limited to American-approved political and religious parties which have left a large number of political groups outside of the circle- groups that have more popular support. Furthermore, the conference can't be run and organized by occupation forces (troops and the CPA). If there's one thing Iraqis are good at- it's organizing conferences. Why should vital political decisions critical to Iraq's independence be made under the watchful eyeball of an American Lieutenant or General? Everyone wants a democratic Iraq, but that just isn't going to happen if people constantly associate the government with occupation.

Why should any Iraqi government have to be christened and blessed by Bremer? He wasn't Iraqi, last time I checked…

Juan Cole and Joshua Marshall both have some interesting things to say on the subject (they both give some good links too).


SOURCE
- posted by river @ 2:35 AM
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 06:17 am
Gautam wrote:
Have been reading with some interest the talks abt speeding up the handing over to power to the Iraqis, post the attack on the italian HQ.

The timing of all this discussions makes me feel that the thought process is - "we really can't sort out this mess. Let the Iraqi interim government take care, as well as the blame, for all these attacks going fwd"

Anyone else feels the same way ?


"The Wrap", 'Guardian's' selection of UK-papers, summons like following:
Quote:
'U-TURN' IN WASHINGTON

It is, says the Times, a "Washington u-turn": George Bush now wants an interim Iraqi government to start running the country as soon as possible. The turnaround came after "crisis talks" in the White House and another devastating suicide bombing yesterday, in which at least 27 people died. Eighteen were Italian and the rest Iraqi.

"No intimidation will budge us," the Herald Tribune reports the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, as saying. There are around 3,000 Italians working in Iraq.

The Guardian's splash is equally sobering, headlined: "We could lose this situation." A report written by the CIA's station in Baghdad puts the number of "insurgents" - those involved in undermining the US occupation - at 50,000.

"There are thousands in the resistance - not just a core of Ba'athists. They are in their thousands, and growing every day," an intelligence source who has read the report tells the paper. "Not all these people are actually firing, but providing support, shelter, all that."

Readers alarmed by these reports will find a more optimistic analysis on the Telegraph's comment pages. John Keegan, the paper's defence editor, met the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld last week. He files a remarkably upbeat report.

"Mr Rumsfeld read me a series of reports, from the American regional commands, summarising progress achieved: terrorists apprehended, weapons recovered, explosives destroyed. The totals were impressive ... Within the context of the total security situation, he sees the level of violence as bearable and believes that the trend of terrorist activity is downward."
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 06:21 am
Quote:


"Mr Rumsfeld read me a series of reports, from the American regional commands, summarising progress achieved: terrorists apprehended, weapons recovered, explosives destroyed. The totals were impressive ... Within the context of the total security situation, he sees the level of violence as bearable and believes that the trend of terrorist activity is downward."



This man is unbelievable <shakes his head>
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 06:38 am
You wonder, Gautam?

Quote:
The U.S. sponsored Iraqi Media Network -- planned to include a 24-hour satellite channel, two land-based TV channels, two radio channels, a national newspaper and studios in every major Iraqi region -- promises Iraqis "comprehensive, accurate, fair, and balanced news." The Village Voice's Cynthia Cotts reports, however, that IMN already faces credibility issues. Budgeted at $100 million (part of the $87.5 billion approved for Iraq), the project's money will flow through the Defense Department's Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict division, which also handles military psy-ops. "Critics say the network's mission is weakened by its contradictory goals. So far IMN is touted as both the voice of an occupying military force and an inspiration for Iraqis to produce fair and balanced news coverage. But many Iraqis have already dubbed the network a propaganda organ. (As if to underscore that impression, IMN recently ran a speech by CPA administrator Paul Bremer in which he spoke repeatedly of Hussein as 'the evil one.') A recent poll found that 35 percent of Iraqis now have satellite receivers, and of those, 67 percent prefer to get TV news from the satellite channels Al Arabiya and Al Jazeera, rather than from IMN," Cotts writes.
Source: Village Voice, November 12, 2003
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 07:17 am
Quote:
Anyone else feels the same way ?


Gautam, I do.

The transition at lightspeed from We will stay the course (from GWB) to We must get an Iraqi government in place right away is enough to make one's head spin. No one on the planet will trust our words before long.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 07:18 am
Wasn't it interesting (not a strong enough word...) that Bremer endorsed the CIA report?
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 07:28 am
Kara wrote:
..... No one on the planet will trust our words before long.


Frankly speaking o gorgeous one, that day has already arrived. Just that some people are too blind to see it.....
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2003 08:28 am
Anybody else notice what I did?

Winning hearts and minds in the ME ...

Quote:


SOURCE
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Quote:
PRESS RELEASE

COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY



DATE 30 June 2003
PR No. 008








INTERIM GOVERNOR OF NAJAF




The Interim Governor of Najaf, Abu Haydar Abdul Mun'im was removed from office, and arrested this afternoon (30 June) in Najaf. He faces a multitude of charges, which include:

kidnapping and holding hostages
pressuring government employees to perform financial crimes
attacking a bank official
stealing funds
Coalition forces made the arrest at the request of the Iraqi Investigative Judge and the Special Prosecutor appointed by the Chief Judge of Najaf. They have been investigating these allegations for some time before concluding that there is sufficient evidence to warrant arrest.

These allegations are very serious. Mr Mun'im's arrest demonstrates the Coalition's determination to enforce the rule of law in Iraq. All Iraqi citizens, no matter what their rank or status, are accountable to the courts for their actions. Mr Abdul Mun'im will face trial under Iraqi law, as amended by the coalition to include such elements as the right to counsel.

Once the Najaf Provincial Council is established next week, among its first tasks will be to select one of its members to become the new Interim Governor. Until then, the Deputy Governor of Najaf, Haydar Mahdi Mattar al Mayali, will act as Interim Governor.


SOURCE

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY

Baghdad, Iraq



Contact: Shane Wolfe

Office of Strategic Communications

1-914-822-4935



IRAQ'S CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT SENDS FORMER GOVERNOR OF NAJAF TO PRISON FOR 14 YEARS



Baghdad, Iraq...November 3, 2003 - After a three-day trial, Iraq's Central Criminal Court today convicted the former governor of Najaf for illegal arrest, destruction of a government document and misuse of office.



The Court's three Iraqi judges sentenced Abdul Munim to a total of 14 years in prison. The sentence consists of five years for the illegal arrest charge, three years for the destruction of the government document charge and six years for the misuse of office charge.



Abdul Munim was arrested on June 26 and charged by an Iraqi investigative judge in Najaf.



During the three-day trial, the Court heard evidence that, from April to June of this year, Munim illegally detained three children of a political enemy, tore up a Ministry of Finance document prohibiting him to from withdrawing money from government accounts and illegally retained money belonging to a man who had been released from detention.



A total of six witnesses testified before the Court during the trial, in which Munim was represented by the two Iraqi lawyers he hired.



Munim has the right to appeal his conviction to Iraq's Court of Cassation.








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SOURCE
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