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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2008 09:02 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
Tico

Don't you think that Democracy is a show business in USA and a risky one in Iraq?


No, I don't. And it's a damn sight better than any other alternative.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 11:19 am
The Clintons Court the Right Wing Because They are Better at Knee-Capping Fellow Dems Than Republicans http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/074
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 01:11 pm
Earlier on, before the Tuzla flap finally broke on TV, I mentioned how, mostly, I just feel insulted by how the Clinton campaign simply seems to see us as fools. For example in the way they float these petty lies that they must have known would be shown up in the end, and then keep repeating them even afer they are debunked, actually scornfully deriding the first couple of people who debunk them.

"Tuzla" has been the most blatant example of that, but see also N-Ireland and S-CHIP, or much more unambiguously, the endless BS peddled by Penn, Ickes and Wolfson in the daily conference calls. When it comes to describing the state of the race, they really float, day after day, these most transparent fibs and spins, which they cant possibly think people will buy. They always promptly receive unanimous incredulous ridicule in the media and blogs, but that doesnt seem to register at all either.

What kind of mindset is that, which thinks it can get away with stuff like this? What do they think of us? Have they been in the bubble of DC and consultancy politics for so long that they just have no feeling anymore for what regular people out here will buy or not buy? Or is it that Bush's lies and spins have convinced them that hey, if he can get away with it, so should we? What is it?

Anastasia, who started out as a Hillary supporter (in as far as she cared at all) and is now sort of on the fence, said it might be narcissism - narcissistic people often lose the capacity to even realise it when they are exaggerating or even lying, and perceive any blowback that then follows as a conspiracy against them. It's not so much that they know the lie is going to come out and calculate in the effect in advance, it's that they have become unable to even take that distance from themselves and look at themselves from the outside that would be necessary to anticipate that inevitable response.

Anyway, this TNR poster puts it very articulately:

Quote:
geoffgraham said:

This is the sad thing about the Clinton campaign - it cannot speak to us as adults - it does not even seem to recognize that adults are in the audience. How many times have Mike or Noam or any of the other Plankers and Stumpers deconstructed some ridiculous Wolfson (or Penn or Singer) conference call? Who knows, but one person who apparently doesn't know and doesn't even care is Wolfson. [..]

One can't help but reach the conclusion that Hillary sees her constituency as a bunch of ditto-heads who react based on emotion rather than reason and will take anything she says without thinking or reflecting for even a nanosecond. This may describe part of the Dem electorate [..], but it fails to recognize that left-leaning pundits, unlike most of their brothers and sisters on the conservative side, usually apply some analysis, even to statements from people with whom they sympathize, rather than take statements at face value. Thus, if Hillary or her surrogates let a corker rip, even pundits who'd love to love her have to call her on it. Sadly, the more corkers, the more derision, and it begins to seem there's not a pundit anywhere with anything nice to say about Hillary. (She still has Krugman, but I can't think of anyone else.) This makes dedicated Hillary-philes apoplectic - the constant drumbeat of criticism makes it appear that they must all be conspiring against her.

Aiming the campaign at the perceived lowest common denominator results in things like the Tuzla flap. Sinbad (Sinbad!) debunked the story several weeks ago. Everyone who reads TNR, HuffPo, the NYT, Slate, Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, etc.,etc. knew the story was a silly exaggeration. Did she quietly let it drop? Well, that's what you'd do if you thought people were actually paying attention. But she didn't let it drop, and instead used it to open her big Iraq speech on March 17th! And then, when the din of derision finally pierced the shell around her, she says she misspoke! If she had acknowledged her misspeak after Sinbad called BS, it would be defensible. Instead you have a situation where she tells a tall tale, gets called on it, ignores the call-out and continues to tell the tale, even bringing it into a big national speech that she must have hoped would burnish her national security bona fides, gets called on it again, and then finally says, "maybe I got it wrong." [..]
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 01:29 pm
Another TNR poster saying it better than I could, on the same subject:

Quote:
lubetkin said:

Surely the most significant thing about the Bosnia war zone fairy tale is that even when it was exposed as a brazen fabrication she was pathologically incapable of going further than "I misspoke." If she had had the courage to acknowledge her error, people would have forgiven her. But, as with her decision on the Iraq war vote, she seems unable to own up to her own mistakes. It's this stubborn refusal to back down that is so ominous. We've had 8 years of self-righteousness and inflexibility. We don't need more.

Hillary's mentality is eerily like the one we've gotten to know so well from GWB. See also her clan-like trust in a small, hardcore band of advisers who are left on board even when they repeatedly turn out to misperform (see Patti Solis Doyle), and the vindictive clan-like insistence on eternal loyalty (see comparisons of Bill Richardson with Judas).
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 02:59 pm
<nodding enthusiastically>

I think that many of her supporters think that such brazenness is necessary to succeed in politics. It's not that they don't think that she's lying, but that they admire her brass balls and think she'd be a better president -- better able to stand up to internal (Republicans) and external enemies than that namby-pamby Obambi.

There is another group who is annoyed that she's lying and who wishes she wouldn't but who then get their backs up when the punditocracy calls her on it. The urge to push back against the CW -- the dislike of the whole concept of CW, and especially the males who create it -- overrides their distaste for the lying. In this formulation, Hillary becomes a victim. Sure, she did it, but was it so awful? Does it earn all of that derision and spite? No, she's just unfairly maligned because of who she is. Etc.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 03:01 pm
There was a certain amount of that with GWB, too. Whenever Al Gore would point up his ignorance people thought it made Gore look like a bully and poor, ineloquent, just like us Georgie the victim.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 03:24 pm
(what's CW?)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 06:17 pm
Common Wisdom..
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 06:56 pm
Or conventional wisdom -- I meant conventional when I wrote it but may have it wrong.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:16 pm
Oh **** yeah, you're right - sorry.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:28 pm
Tnx.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2008 07:12 am
FROM BAD TO VERSE FOR HILL
AIRPORT'S GIRL POET STUNNED BY SNIPER TALE AS INSULTED FELLOW BOSNIANS RIP 'LOW BLOW' LIE
By SELIM ALGAR, NY Post Correspondent
WAR STORY: Ejup Ganic (above), the ex-acting president of...

March 31, 2008 -- SARAJEVO, Bosnia - The Bosnian girl who famously read a poem to Hillary Rodham Clinton during her 1996 visit to the war-torn country is shocked - and her countrymen infuriated - that the former first lady claimed to have dodged sniper fire that day.

Emina Bicakcic, now 20 and studying to become a doctor, told The Post she stood on the tarmac at the air base in Tuzla, greeted Clinton and even had time to share the lines of verse she'd written - all without fear of attack from an unseen enemy.

"I was surprised when I heard this," Bicakcic said, referring to Clinton's assertion that she braved snipers upon landing, ducking and sprinting to military vehicles.

Other Bosnians said they had one of two reactions to Clinton's debunked action-hero account of her visit: laughter or anger.

"It's an exaggeration," said former acting President Ejup Ganic, who was present during Clinton's visit. "No one was firing. There were no shots fired."

Sema Markovic, 22, a student, said she has long respected Hillary as a strong leader but was angered by her remarks.

"It is an ugly thing for a politician to tell lies,' she said. "We had problems for years, and I don't like when someone lies about them. It makes us look bad."

Clinton has since admitted she "misspoke."

Bicakcic, asked if she feared any threat of violence that day, said she felt just the opposite.

"No," she said, speaking at her home in Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital. "I was just excited. I wanted to look [Clinton] in the eye and say, 'Thank you.' "

And Clinton, she said, seemed far more interested in her poem than in dashing for shelter.

"She was really listening," Bicakcic recalled. "She was drinking in every word of my poem."

Her poem begins with the words, "Peace has come."

Bicakcic said she was reluctant to criticize Clinton's account of that day because of a deep appreciation for the US role in ending Bosnia's bloody nightmare.

A picture of the girl's meeting with the then-first lady - signed and inscribed by Clinton - has become a treasured family heirloom.

Still, Bicakcic admitted that she is not supporting Clinton in her contest against Barack Obama.

"I'm staying neutral," she said, declining to discuss the issue further. "I have very mixed emotions about it. It's a difficult situation for me."
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2008 02:09 pm
Clinton Surrogate Ed Rendell Praises Fox News For "Most Objective," "Balanced" Coverage
Huffington Post | Danny Shea | March 31, 2008 01:42 PM

Great catch from Michael Calderone at the Politico:

Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, a strong supporter and prominent surrogate of the Hillary Clinton campaign, appeared on Fox News' morning show "Fox & Friends" today and praised the network for its "objective" and "balanced" coverage.

"I think during this entire primary coverage, starting in Iowa and up to the present, Fox has done the fairest job, has remained the most objective of all the cable networks," Rendell told host Steve Doocy. "You actually have done a very balanced job of reporting the news, and some of the other stations are just caught up with Senator Obama, who is a great guy, but Senator Obama can do no wrong, and Senator Clinton can do no right."

Doocy told Rendell, "I just had a tingling in my leg when you were talking about that," a reference to MSNBC host Chris Matthews, who has been criticized for unfairly treating Hillary Clinton and who once announced on air that he felt a "thrill going up his leg" during an Obama speech.
link
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 07:57 am
blueflame1 wrote:
FROM BAD TO VERSE FOR HILL
AIRPORT'S GIRL POET STUNNED BY SNIPER TALE AS INSULTED FELLOW BOSNIANS RIP 'LOW BLOW' LIE
By SELIM ALGAR, NY Post Correspondent
WAR STORY: Ejup Ganic (above), the ex-acting president of...

March 31, 2008 -- SARAJEVO, Bosnia - The Bosnian girl who famously read a poem to Hillary Rodham Clinton during her 1996 visit to the war-torn country is shocked - and her countrymen infuriated - that the former first lady claimed to have dodged sniper fire that day.

Emina Bicakcic, now 20 and studying to become a doctor, told The Post she stood on the tarmac at the air base in Tuzla, greeted Clinton and even had time to share the lines of verse she'd written - all without fear of attack from an unseen enemy.

"I was surprised when I heard this," Bicakcic said, referring to Clinton's assertion that she braved snipers upon landing, ducking and sprinting to military vehicles.

Other Bosnians said they had one of two reactions to Clinton's debunked action-hero account of her visit: laughter or anger.

"It's an exaggeration," said former acting President Ejup Ganic, who was present during Clinton's visit. "No one was firing. There were no shots fired."

Sema Markovic, 22, a student, said she has long respected Hillary as a strong leader but was angered by her remarks.

"It is an ugly thing for a politician to tell lies,' she said. "We had problems for years, and I don't like when someone lies about them. It makes us look bad."

Clinton has since admitted she "misspoke."

Bicakcic, asked if she feared any threat of violence that day, said she felt just the opposite.

"No," she said, speaking at her home in Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital. "I was just excited. I wanted to look [Clinton] in the eye and say, 'Thank you.' "

And Clinton, she said, seemed far more interested in her poem than in dashing for shelter.

"She was really listening," Bicakcic recalled. "She was drinking in every word of my poem."

Her poem begins with the words, "Peace has come."

Bicakcic said she was reluctant to criticize Clinton's account of that day because of a deep appreciation for the US role in ending Bosnia's bloody nightmare.

A picture of the girl's meeting with the then-first lady - signed and inscribed by Clinton - has become a treasured family heirloom.

Still, Bicakcic admitted that she is not supporting Clinton in her contest against Barack Obama.

"I'm staying neutral," she said, declining to discuss the issue further. "I have very mixed emotions about it. It's a difficult situation for me."


She's smart to stay out of it.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.html
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 08:55 am


Did you just cite to whatreallyhappened.com? Shocked
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:01 am
Chances are very good that her bid for the white house will come to a
screeching halt very soon - watch for breaking news later this week.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:08 am
Ticomaya wrote:


Did you just cite to whatreallyhappened.com? Shocked


Yes I did.

No matter what you think 'really happened' (murder? or just lots of accidents and 'bad luck'?) , there are a lot of folks formerly associated with the Clintons who have had some very unpleasant lives (or deaths) shortly thereafter.

The girl is smart to stay away from the Clintons.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2008 06:42 pm
Down the rabbithole we go...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2008 06:59 pm
Oddly enough (to me), it's fairly normal for Presidential campaigns to leave behind a string of debts - just ask Rudy Giuliani. But as this article points out, bills left unpaid usually tend to be those of "high-priced consultants who typically let bills slide as part of the cost of doing business with powerful clientele whose success is linked to their own".

Not so with Campaign Hillary. It has left bills unpaid all the way from Iowa -- to a long list of small businesses, for whom these forfeited payments are a big deal.

This is all the more striking because of how the fundraising in this Democratic race has been through the roof. Sure, Hillary is behind on Obama, but she herself has also raised amounts of money that were unheard of in previous years; she is still spending massive amounts of money. And it is striking in contrast with the lack of such a string of unpaid bills on the part of the Obama campaign and even the not too long ago almost bankrupt McCain campaign.


0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2008 07:04 pm
Along the same lines, and not lacking in some irony considering the emphasis Hillary places in her campaign on the need to guarantee health insurance to all:

0 Replies
 
 

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