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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2008 09:02 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
Tico

Don't you think that Democracy is a show business in USA and a risky one in Iraq?


No, I don't. And it's a damn sight better than any other alternative.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 11:19 am
The Clintons Court the Right Wing Because They are Better at Knee-Capping Fellow Dems Than Republicans http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/074
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 01:11 pm
Earlier on, before the Tuzla flap finally broke on TV, I mentioned how, mostly, I just feel insulted by how the Clinton campaign simply seems to see us as fools. For example in the way they float these petty lies that they must have known would be shown up in the end, and then keep repeating them even afer they are debunked, actually scornfully deriding the first couple of people who debunk them.

"Tuzla" has been the most blatant example of that, but see also N-Ireland and S-CHIP, or much more unambiguously, the endless BS peddled by Penn, Ickes and Wolfson in the daily conference calls. When it comes to describing the state of the race, they really float, day after day, these most transparent fibs and spins, which they cant possibly think people will buy. They always promptly receive unanimous incredulous ridicule in the media and blogs, but that doesnt seem to register at all either.

What kind of mindset is that, which thinks it can get away with stuff like this? What do they think of us? Have they been in the bubble of DC and consultancy politics for so long that they just have no feeling anymore for what regular people out here will buy or not buy? Or is it that Bush's lies and spins have convinced them that hey, if he can get away with it, so should we? What is it?

Anastasia, who started out as a Hillary supporter (in as far as she cared at all) and is now sort of on the fence, said it might be narcissism - narcissistic people often lose the capacity to even realise it when they are exaggerating or even lying, and perceive any blowback that then follows as a conspiracy against them. It's not so much that they know the lie is going to come out and calculate in the effect in advance, it's that they have become unable to even take that distance from themselves and look at themselves from the outside that would be necessary to anticipate that inevitable response.

Anyway, this TNR poster puts it very articulately:

Quote:
geoffgraham said:

This is the sad thing about the Clinton campaign - it cannot speak to us as adults - it does not even seem to recognize that adults are in the audience. How many times have Mike or Noam or any of the other Plankers and Stumpers deconstructed some ridiculous Wolfson (or Penn or Singer) conference call? Who knows, but one person who apparently doesn't know and doesn't even care is Wolfson. [..]

One can't help but reach the conclusion that Hillary sees her constituency as a bunch of ditto-heads who react based on emotion rather than reason and will take anything she says without thinking or reflecting for even a nanosecond. This may describe part of the Dem electorate [..], but it fails to recognize that left-leaning pundits, unlike most of their brothers and sisters on the conservative side, usually apply some analysis, even to statements from people with whom they sympathize, rather than take statements at face value. Thus, if Hillary or her surrogates let a corker rip, even pundits who'd love to love her have to call her on it. Sadly, the more corkers, the more derision, and it begins to seem there's not a pundit anywhere with anything nice to say about Hillary. (She still has Krugman, but I can't think of anyone else.) This makes dedicated Hillary-philes apoplectic - the constant drumbeat of criticism makes it appear that they must all be conspiring against her.

Aiming the campaign at the perceived lowest common denominator results in things like the Tuzla flap. Sinbad (Sinbad!) debunked the story several weeks ago. Everyone who reads TNR, HuffPo, the NYT, Slate, Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, etc.,etc. knew the story was a silly exaggeration. Did she quietly let it drop? Well, that's what you'd do if you thought people were actually paying attention. But she didn't let it drop, and instead used it to open her big Iraq speech on March 17th! And then, when the din of derision finally pierced the shell around her, she says she misspoke! If she had acknowledged her misspeak after Sinbad called BS, it would be defensible. Instead you have a situation where she tells a tall tale, gets called on it, ignores the call-out and continues to tell the tale, even bringing it into a big national speech that she must have hoped would burnish her national security bona fides, gets called on it again, and then finally says, "maybe I got it wrong." [..]
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 01:29 pm
Another TNR poster saying it better than I could, on the same subject:

Quote:
lubetkin said:

Surely the most significant thing about the Bosnia war zone fairy tale is that even when it was exposed as a brazen fabrication she was pathologically incapable of going further than "I misspoke." If she had had the courage to acknowledge her error, people would have forgiven her. But, as with her decision on the Iraq war vote, she seems unable to own up to her own mistakes. It's this stubborn refusal to back down that is so ominous. We've had 8 years of self-righteousness and inflexibility. We don't need more.

Hillary's mentality is eerily like the one we've gotten to know so well from GWB. See also her clan-like trust in a small, hardcore band of advisers who are left on board even when they repeatedly turn out to misperform (see Patti Solis Doyle), and the vindictive clan-like insistence on eternal loyalty (see comparisons of Bill Richardson with Judas).
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 02:59 pm
<nodding enthusiastically>

I think that many of her supporters think that such brazenness is necessary to succeed in politics. It's not that they don't think that she's lying, but that they admire her brass balls and think she'd be a better president -- better able to stand up to internal (Republicans) and external enemies than that namby-pamby Obambi.

There is another group who is annoyed that she's lying and who wishes she wouldn't but who then get their backs up when the punditocracy calls her on it. The urge to push back against the CW -- the dislike of the whole concept of CW, and especially the males who create it -- overrides their distaste for the lying. In this formulation, Hillary becomes a victim. Sure, she did it, but was it so awful? Does it earn all of that derision and spite? No, she's just unfairly maligned because of who she is. Etc.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 03:01 pm
There was a certain amount of that with GWB, too. Whenever Al Gore would point up his ignorance people thought it made Gore look like a bully and poor, ineloquent, just like us Georgie the victim.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 03:24 pm
(what's CW?)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 06:17 pm
Common Wisdom..
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 06:56 pm
Or conventional wisdom -- I meant conventional when I wrote it but may have it wrong.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:16 pm
Oh **** yeah, you're right - sorry.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:28 pm
Tnx.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2008 07:12 am
FROM BAD TO VERSE FOR HILL
AIRPORT'S GIRL POET STUNNED BY SNIPER TALE AS INSULTED FELLOW BOSNIANS RIP 'LOW BLOW' LIE
By SELIM ALGAR, NY Post Correspondent
WAR STORY: Ejup Ganic (above), the ex-acting president of...

March 31, 2008 -- SARAJEVO, Bosnia - The Bosnian girl who famously read a poem to Hillary Rodham Clinton during her 1996 visit to the war-torn country is shocked - and her countrymen infuriated - that the former first lady claimed to have dodged sniper fire that day.

Emina Bicakcic, now 20 and studying to become a doctor, told The Post she stood on the tarmac at the air base in Tuzla, greeted Clinton and even had time to share the lines of verse she'd written - all without fear of attack from an unseen enemy.

"I was surprised when I heard this," Bicakcic said, referring to Clinton's assertion that she braved snipers upon landing, ducking and sprinting to military vehicles.

Other Bosnians said they had one of two reactions to Clinton's debunked action-hero account of her visit: laughter or anger.

"It's an exaggeration," said former acting President Ejup Ganic, who was present during Clinton's visit. "No one was firing. There were no shots fired."

Sema Markovic, 22, a student, said she has long respected Hillary as a strong leader but was angered by her remarks.

"It is an ugly thing for a politician to tell lies,' she said. "We had problems for years, and I don't like when someone lies about them. It makes us look bad."

Clinton has since admitted she "misspoke."

Bicakcic, asked if she feared any threat of violence that day, said she felt just the opposite.

"No," she said, speaking at her home in Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital. "I was just excited. I wanted to look [Clinton] in the eye and say, 'Thank you.' "

And Clinton, she said, seemed far more interested in her poem than in dashing for shelter.

"She was really listening," Bicakcic recalled. "She was drinking in every word of my poem."

Her poem begins with the words, "Peace has come."

Bicakcic said she was reluctant to criticize Clinton's account of that day because of a deep appreciation for the US role in ending Bosnia's bloody nightmare.

A picture of the girl's meeting with the then-first lady - signed and inscribed by Clinton - has become a treasured family heirloom.

Still, Bicakcic admitted that she is not supporting Clinton in her contest against Barack Obama.

"I'm staying neutral," she said, declining to discuss the issue further. "I have very mixed emotions about it. It's a difficult situation for me."
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2008 02:09 pm
Clinton Surrogate Ed Rendell Praises Fox News For "Most Objective," "Balanced" Coverage
Huffington Post | Danny Shea | March 31, 2008 01:42 PM

Great catch from Michael Calderone at the Politico:

Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, a strong supporter and prominent surrogate of the Hillary Clinton campaign, appeared on Fox News' morning show "Fox & Friends" today and praised the network for its "objective" and "balanced" coverage.

"I think during this entire primary coverage, starting in Iowa and up to the present, Fox has done the fairest job, has remained the most objective of all the cable networks," Rendell told host Steve Doocy. "You actually have done a very balanced job of reporting the news, and some of the other stations are just caught up with Senator Obama, who is a great guy, but Senator Obama can do no wrong, and Senator Clinton can do no right."

Doocy told Rendell, "I just had a tingling in my leg when you were talking about that," a reference to MSNBC host Chris Matthews, who has been criticized for unfairly treating Hillary Clinton and who once announced on air that he felt a "thrill going up his leg" during an Obama speech.
link
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 07:57 am
blueflame1 wrote:
FROM BAD TO VERSE FOR HILL
AIRPORT'S GIRL POET STUNNED BY SNIPER TALE AS INSULTED FELLOW BOSNIANS RIP 'LOW BLOW' LIE
By SELIM ALGAR, NY Post Correspondent
WAR STORY: Ejup Ganic (above), the ex-acting president of...

March 31, 2008 -- SARAJEVO, Bosnia - The Bosnian girl who famously read a poem to Hillary Rodham Clinton during her 1996 visit to the war-torn country is shocked - and her countrymen infuriated - that the former first lady claimed to have dodged sniper fire that day.

Emina Bicakcic, now 20 and studying to become a doctor, told The Post she stood on the tarmac at the air base in Tuzla, greeted Clinton and even had time to share the lines of verse she'd written - all without fear of attack from an unseen enemy.

"I was surprised when I heard this," Bicakcic said, referring to Clinton's assertion that she braved snipers upon landing, ducking and sprinting to military vehicles.

Other Bosnians said they had one of two reactions to Clinton's debunked action-hero account of her visit: laughter or anger.

"It's an exaggeration," said former acting President Ejup Ganic, who was present during Clinton's visit. "No one was firing. There were no shots fired."

Sema Markovic, 22, a student, said she has long respected Hillary as a strong leader but was angered by her remarks.

"It is an ugly thing for a politician to tell lies,' she said. "We had problems for years, and I don't like when someone lies about them. It makes us look bad."

Clinton has since admitted she "misspoke."

Bicakcic, asked if she feared any threat of violence that day, said she felt just the opposite.

"No," she said, speaking at her home in Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital. "I was just excited. I wanted to look [Clinton] in the eye and say, 'Thank you.' "

And Clinton, she said, seemed far more interested in her poem than in dashing for shelter.

"She was really listening," Bicakcic recalled. "She was drinking in every word of my poem."

Her poem begins with the words, "Peace has come."

Bicakcic said she was reluctant to criticize Clinton's account of that day because of a deep appreciation for the US role in ending Bosnia's bloody nightmare.

A picture of the girl's meeting with the then-first lady - signed and inscribed by Clinton - has become a treasured family heirloom.

Still, Bicakcic admitted that she is not supporting Clinton in her contest against Barack Obama.

"I'm staying neutral," she said, declining to discuss the issue further. "I have very mixed emotions about it. It's a difficult situation for me."


She's smart to stay out of it.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.html
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 08:55 am


Did you just cite to whatreallyhappened.com? Shocked
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H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:01 am
Chances are very good that her bid for the white house will come to a
screeching halt very soon - watch for breaking news later this week.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2008 10:08 am
Ticomaya wrote:


Did you just cite to whatreallyhappened.com? Shocked


Yes I did.

No matter what you think 'really happened' (murder? or just lots of accidents and 'bad luck'?) , there are a lot of folks formerly associated with the Clintons who have had some very unpleasant lives (or deaths) shortly thereafter.

The girl is smart to stay away from the Clintons.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2008 06:42 pm
Down the rabbithole we go...
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2008 06:59 pm
Oddly enough (to me), it's fairly normal for Presidential campaigns to leave behind a string of debts - just ask Rudy Giuliani. But as this article points out, bills left unpaid usually tend to be those of "high-priced consultants who typically let bills slide as part of the cost of doing business with powerful clientele whose success is linked to their own".

Not so with Campaign Hillary. It has left bills unpaid all the way from Iowa -- to a long list of small businesses, for whom these forfeited payments are a big deal.

This is all the more striking because of how the fundraising in this Democratic race has been through the roof. Sure, Hillary is behind on Obama, but she herself has also raised amounts of money that were unheard of in previous years; she is still spending massive amounts of money. And it is striking in contrast with the lack of such a string of unpaid bills on the part of the Obama campaign and even the not too long ago almost bankrupt McCain campaign.


Quote:
Cash-strapped Clinton fails to pay bills

The Politico
1 April 2008

Hillary Rodham Clinton's cash-strapped presidential campaign has been putting off paying hundreds of bills for months ?- freeing up cash for critical media buys but also earning the campaign a reputation as something of a deadbeat in some small-business circles.

A pair of Ohio companies owed more than $25,000 by Clinton for staging events for her campaign are warning others in the tight-knit event production community ?- and anyone else who will listen ?- to get their cash upfront when doing business with her. Her campaign, say representatives of the two companies, has stopped returning phone calls and e-mails seeking payment of outstanding invoices. One even got no response from a certified letter.

Their cautionary tales, combined with published reports about similar difficulties faced by a New Hampshire landlord, an Iowa office cleaner and a New York caterer, highlight a less-obvious impact of Clinton's inability to keep up with the staggering fundraising pace set by her opponent for the Democratic presidential nomination, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama.

Clinton's campaign did not respond to recent, specific questions about its transactions with vendors. But Clinton spokesman Jay Carson pointed on Saturday to an earlier statement the campaign issued to Politico, asserting: "The campaign pays its bills regularly and in the normal course of business, and pays all of its bills."

Just like with other businesses, it's common for campaigns to carry unpaid bills from month to month, but in Clinton's case, it also could serve a strategic purpose. The New York senator's presidential campaign ended February with $33 million in the bank, according to a report filed last week with the Federal Election Commission, but only $11 million of that can be spent on her battle with Obama.

The rest can be spent only in the general election, if she makes it that far, and must be returned if she doesn't. If she had paid off the $8.7 million in unpaid bills she reported as debt and had not loaned her campaign $5 million, she would have been nearly $3 million in the red at the end of February.

By contrast, if you subtract Obama's $625,000 in debts and his general-election-only money from his total cash on hand at the end of last month, he'd still be left with $31 million.

The presidential campaign of presumptive Republican nominee Arizona Sen. John McCain reported $4.3 million in debt at the end of February, but only $1.3 million of that was in the form of unpaid bills to a dozen vendors. The rest was a bank loan, which the campaign says it paid off last week.

It's not just the size of Clinton's debts that's noteworthy. It's also that her unpaid bills extend beyond the realm of high-priced consultants who typically let bills slide as part of the cost of doing business with powerful clientele whose success is linked to their own. [..] Clinton also reported debts more than one month old to a slew of apolitical businesses and organizations, large and small, in the states through which this historically expensive Democratic primary campaign has raged.

She owed Iowa's Sioux City Art Center Board of Trustees $3,500 for catering and venue costs, New Hampshire's Winnacunnet Cooperative School District $4,400 in event costs, Qwest $24,000 for phone service, various branches of the Iowa-based supermarket chain Hy-Vee $15,000 for food, beverages and catering, and $7,700 to Ohio and Massachusetts branches of the theatrical stage employees' union, for equipment costs.

In fact, about a third of the nearly 700 individual debts Clinton reported at the end of February were for various types of "event expenses," including $319,000 for catering and venue costs, $420,000 for equipment, $11,000 for photography and $9,000 for security. [..]

And word is getting around that Clinton's campaign does not promptly pay those who labor to make her events look good, said an employee of the event production company Forty Two of Youngstown, Ohio. "I feel insulted by the way that the campaign treated this company and treated us personally," said the employee, who did not want to be named talking about a client.

The Clinton campaign paid the company $16,500 to set up a stage, press riser, sound system and backdrops at a Youngstown high school last month for a raucous union rally, where an aggressive Clinton stump speech drew thunderous applause. But the Clinton campaign has yet to pay Forty Two for two other February events, and the employee said the campaign has stopped returning phone calls, e-mails and didn't respond to a certified letter.

"We worked very hard to put together these events on a moment's notice and do absolutely everything to a ?'t' to make it look perfect on television for her and for her campaign," said the employee. "Sen. Clinton talks about helping working families, people in unions and small businesses. But when it comes down to actually doing something that shows that she can back up her words with action, she fails."

Forty Two also has done events for Obama's campaign, which has paid its bills promptly, according to the employee. FEC records show Obama's campaign paid the company $18,500.

Show Tyme Exhibits, another Youngstown event production company, has produced political events for years and had never had problems getting paid before Clinton, according to owner Jim Phillips. He said he's still waiting for a payment for setting up the sound system and stage for Clinton's February tour of a General Motors plant in Lordstown, Ohio.

"It was only $607, but I'm a small guy; I could use that," said Phillips, adding, "Everyone I can tell, I do tell about it. You tell somebody something bad about somebody, they tell 10 other people."

Both Phillips and the Forty Two employee said they voted for Clinton in Ohio's March 4 primary, which she won handily, but regret their votes and are reluctant to work for her campaign again.

Their sentiments aren't universal in the event production world, though. [..] "We don't have any problem with them," [said manager Troy Gwin of ACS Sound and Lighting]. "I'd continue to do business after the primaries if she is the nominee. I would love to."

And Tony Galarza, director of the Missoula, Mont., branch of a national event production company, remained committed to staging an April 6 Clinton fundraising brunch at a local hotel even after a colleague in his company e-mailed a list of Clinton's campaign debts.

Galarza said he's confident Clinton will pay his company but admitted he was surprised to see so many event production companies among the campaign's creditors.

"Once I looked at those numbers, I realized how important to our economy nationally these elections are," he said. "Just the sheer numbers listed there were immense."
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2008 07:04 pm
Along the same lines, and not lacking in some irony considering the emphasis Hillary places in her campaign on the need to guarantee health insurance to all:

Quote:
Clinton didn't pay health insurance bills

Among the debts reported this month by Hillary Rodham Clinton's struggling presidential campaign, the $292,000 in unpaid health insurance premiums for her campaign staff stands out.

Clinton, who is being pressured to end her campaign against Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination, has made her plan for universal health care a centerpiece of her agenda.

The campaign provides health insurance to all its employees, their spouses, partners and children ?- and that wasn't interrupted by any lag in payments to insurance providers, said Jay Carson, a Clinton campaign spokesman. [..]

"Sometimes invoices are not paid immediately because we need additional information for our records, or to verify expenses," Carson said in a statement e-mailed to Politico. "Sometimes invoices arrive at the very end of the month at the cutoff of the reporting period, which means that we are required to report them as a debt on the current FEC report, even where they are paid in regular course during the next month."

But the unpaid bills to Aetna were at least two months old, according to FEC filings. They show the campaign ended last year owing Aetna more than $213,000 for "employee benefits." During the first two months of the year, the campaign did not pay down any of that debt. In fact, it accrued another $16,000 in unpaid bills last month, and it finished the month owing Aetna $229,000. [..]

Campaigns resemble businesses in many ways. Like businesses, one of their biggest costs is salaries, payroll taxes and the benefits of their employees. Also like businesses, they tend to carry unpaid bills as debt from week-to-week or even month-to-month.

But Arizona Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, did not report any unpaid bills to insurance providers at the end of February. And the only insurance-related debt reported by Obama, an Illinois senator, was $908 to AIG American International Group for "insurance." [..]
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