The Republican nominee will be...

... apparently, now the left has produced that kind of BS.

So sad.

It is sad to say, but where is the evidence?

John Kerry himself and the left started their own swiftboating a few decades ago, wake up Advocate. Also, you forget the Swift Boat guys were veterans as well, and spent more time in Vietnam than Kerry, and deserve more respect, and they deserve to be heard.

I am not one to question McCain's war credentials, although I have been aware of these stories for years now. It is best to leave a sleeping dog lie, and none of us have any idea how or what we would do or not do if taken prisoner. In my opinion, McCain deserves respect for his military service. So did Jimmy Carter and it didn't make him a good president. And neither does McCains military experience make him the best presidential candidate.

Okie,

You need to explain this.

When did Kerry attack a political candidate by representing their personal military service?

I think both you and Advocate are full of it.

YOU are now!

Navy Awarded McCain Medals For Valor Without Required Eyewitnesses

Presidential candidate John McCain is being hailed by the press as a genuine "American war hero" and says he has the medals to prove it.

For 5 ½ years as a POW (three of which he says were spent in solitary confinement), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

Former POW McCain claims his experience as a prisoner of the communists better qualifies him to be President of the United States. He has forged that experience along with his military record deeply into his campaign.

But, Navy regulations say two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism and McCain has none for the valor awards he received.

Are McCain's Awards Heroism Valid?

The following narrative is what the Navy Said McCain did from October 27, 1967 to December 8, 1967 to earn a Silver Star.

THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
Washington D.C. 20350
The president of the United States takes pleasure in
presenting the SILVER STAR MEDAL to
COMMANDER JOHN S. MCCAIN III
UNITED STATES NAVY

CITATION:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity while interned as Prisoner of War in North Vietnam from 27 October to 8 December 1967. His captors, completely ignoring international agreements, subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly toward the eventual abandonment of harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese, which was attracting international attention. By his determination, courage, resourcefulness, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces.

However, John McCain's actual behavior from October to December 1967 is quite different from the Navy's version of events.

On October 27, 1967, four days after being shot down, McCain called for a North Vietnamese guard. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital. (U.S. government documents) "Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain

On Nov. 9, 1967, Hanoi press began quoting the seriously injured McCain giving specific military information.

One report dated read, "To a question of the correspondent, McCain answered: 'My assignment to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due to serious losses in pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier (due to its raids on the North Vietnam territory - VNA) and which necessitated replacements.

"'From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like me from the Forrestal to the Oriskany.

"'Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. Altogether, I made about 23 flights over North Vietnam.'"

In that report, McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which his attack was supposed to take place.

Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an interview prominent French television reporter Francois Chalais had with McCain.

Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series titled Life in Hanoi, which was aired in Europe. In the series, Chalais said his meeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave its mark on my life."

"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those meetings which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life. I had asked the North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to personally interrogate an American prisoner. They authorized me to do so.

"When night fell, they took me---without any precautions or mystery--to a hospital near the Gia Lam airport reserved for the military. (passage omitted) The officer who receives me begins: I ask you not to ask any questions of political nature. If this man replies in a way unfavorable to us, they will not hesitate to speak of 'brainwashing' and conclude that we threatened him.

"'This John Sidney McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of U.S. naval forces in Europe. (passage omitted)'"

". . . Many visitors came to talk to me [John McCain]. Not all of it was for interrogation. Once a famous North Vietnamese writer-an old man with a Ho Chi Minh beard-came to my room, wanting to know all about Ernest Hemingway . . . Others came to find out about life in the United States.

"They figured because my father had such high military rank that I was of the royalty or governing circle . . . One of the men who came to see me, whose picture I recognized later, was Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, the hero of Dienbienphu." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

December 1967, Vietnamese doctors operate (early December) on McCain's Leg. Later that month, six weeks after he was shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain

Read retired Army Col. David Hackworth's opinion of Sen. McCain's medals.

STAY TUNED, MORE OF MCCAIN'S CITATIONS WILL BE POSTED HERE SOON

Ted Sampley
publisher

You have no "F"ING IDEA what you are talking about.

SILVER STAR - 3. Criteria: The Silver Star is awarded to a person who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, is cited for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force, or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The required gallantry, while of a lesser degree than that required for award of the Distinguished Service Cross, must nevertheless have been performed with marked distinction. Soldiers who received a citation for gallantry in action during World War I may apply to have the citation converted to the Silver Star Medal."

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ss.shtml

Well, I think Advocate is full of it too, if that means anything. I think everyone here knows the bone I had to pick with Kerry was his history with Vietnam, going clear back to his statements before Congress, and I knew the man was bogus when he said those things about Vietnam. It revealed what the man was about, I stand by it, and always will, as some things you know when you have been there.

As far as McCain, we weren't there in Hanoi, so we have no clue. I prefer to judge him on his political record. And by the way, I am no McCain supporter, but he is far different than John Kerry. Perish the thought he actually considered being his running mate.

What did Kerry say that was false? It would be pretty hard to overstate the carnage and killing for which we were responsible in Nam.

This is old news, this has been hashed and rehashed, and I think is part of Kerry's political legacy. If you are hellbent on being so partisan as to defend his Vietnam statements, then you are beyond help. And if you were in Vietnam, you are worth talking to about it, if not, get lost.

What a stupid statement! I guess today's historians can't comment on the Civil War because they were not there.

Incidentally, I don't take directions from the likes of a little putz like yourself.

Interestingly enough four of the Keating Five were, in fact, Democrats.

When the Senate Ethics Committee investigated their actions it found that three of them (Cranston, DeConcini, and Riegle) took actions that "constituted substantial interference with the FHLBB's enforcement efforts and that they had done so at the behest of Charles Keating." source

The Committee recommended censure of Cranston, but he was already on his way out to retirement.

The Committee did rebuke McCain for exercising "poor judgment."

McCain made the following statement:

"The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."

He then proceeded to devote considerable energy to having campaign finance reform passed into law (McCain/Feingold).

What the Keating Five did was to intercede with the FHLBB on behalf of Charles Keating in their investigation of Lincoln Savings & Loan investments in commercial real estate and associated accounting improprieties.

Eventually Lincoln S&L became insolvent as did many other S&L institutions.

The S&L disaster can be attributed, in part to deregulation, but far more so to the corrupt nature of many S&L principles.

The Lincoln S&L was not The S&L Disaster, nor did it's failure cause the failure of all the others. If the Keating Five had not intervened with the FHLBB, Lincoln S&L would still have failed as would all of the other S&Ls that became insolvent.

I don't know of any evidence to suggest that any of the Keating Five were prime movers in the process of deregulating the S&L industry.

All this is to indicate that neither McCain nor any of the other four, for that matter, can be credibly charged with causing the S&L Disaster.

Advocate's criticism is so overstated in this matter as to strongly question the accuracy of any others he might make.

Well, he's not a literary/mythological figure or a samm'ich. Central figure in an event/period/movement? On several occasions. Illustrious warrior, admired, courageous? Absolutely, and to the exclusion of all other candidates.

Finn, you are full of it.

McCain/Feingold came long after the S&L fiasco closure. Congress's ethics committees are a joke. They are loath to take an adverse action because the recipient won't vote on unrelated issues as the committee members would wish.

The K5 group worked hard for the deregulation that made possible the S&L fiasco, which cost this country so dearly.

Why is it that you guys on the right are such apologists for any misconduct by conservatives.

The fact that the other K5 members were Dems is irrelevant. None of them is running for president.

I have made no apologies for any misconduct.

I have demonstrated, however, that you are factually wrong about most of your claims.

All the hot-headed ad hominems you seem to relish won't change this.

There should be 100,000,000.

But Democrats have sold us the 'tax the rich' line so often that there really are people who think that a tax on the rich is not a tax on them.

C'mon.

So you raise the taxes of the business owner who makes $200,000 a year. Hmmmmmmmm. Wonder what he will do to pay his taxes which have just gone up?

Cut back on his lifestyle? Don't think so.

Can somebody say 'raise his prices' ?

So then you fork over the money to pay the rich boy's taxes, smart guy.

You've just taxed yourself.

Nobody forces me to buy his products. I can always cut back on spending if I like, or better yet, choose other products. If the rich guy wants to stay in business, he'll have to stay competitive; the first guy who decides he can make do with a few percentage points less of profits is going to get ALL the business while the other rich guys rapidly see their business shrinking.

The cut-throat nature of business means that what you propose isn't likely to be a wide-spread phenomenon. But it sure sounds convincing to people who don't understand taxation and business.

Cycloptichorn

And you'll buy them from who?

Another 'rich guy' down the street who is in the same business and also had his taxes raised.

Hello?

So, you just won't buy his 'products' , eh? YOU'LL show him.

We'll see how long you get by without food, etc.

Another way rich boy might decide to pay his taxes is getting by with less himself.

As in -- 'less help'.

He'll lay off some folks that he can do without for a while.

Someone will pay for those taxes by losing their job.

Great plan einstein. You showed him, didn't you?

Why don't we just admit that increasing taxes puts a drag on the entire economy?

There's no such thing as 'taxing someone else'.

You cut out the part of my post which answered the rest of yours. Did you even read it?

Businesses, at every level of taxation, compete with each other. The free market will ensure that prices stay competitive even with tax raises.

Remember that it was your premise that that 'rich guy' will raise taxes every time rather then take any hit to profits whatsoever. This is not supported by either logic or evidence. Markets generally do not collude to keep prices high, but work to under-cut each other at every opportunity.

'less help,' laying off maids, please. This is not a serious argument.

Cycloptichorn

Not to you. But to others who don't have a job guaranteed for life, it is serious.