I'm gonna take a stab at this.
I am colorblind, but was raised in a definitely biased, almost racist environment.
I think a lot of us post baby boomers were raised with the last of the vehemently racially biased doctrines very much entering our young minds.
I know a lot of folks that have not sorted out what they simply accepted as part of life as they grew up, and how slanted that might be for whatever reason.
Your reaction may be part of a deeper resentment that you were raised with, however gently, and are ready to shed, with some introspection and guidance.
Soon we will all be light brown...
RH
<--Half Japanese, Half Scott
I'm alarmed by the original poster's feelings, but I am not angry. I applaud the corage it takes to address one's personal prejudices.
I am always going to have interacial relationships, it comes with the teritory. Even if I were to find a girl who was half japanese, half scott I'd still be in a mixed relationship.
In general, I only have this to contribute: There is an infinite list of factors outside of a relationship which can fight for your attention. It seems you love your partner very much, and are worried about acting in such a way as to frighten her or upset her. I'd personally find a time that I felt unthreatened to approach her humbly and confess your fears and weakness. Her affection could heal you where you are hurting most.
TLC
K
O
well............... let me just add my $.02
Though my marriage is not interracial, i have had 3 interracial relationships.
It never ever ever failed that I got ugly looks and stares from Black men. EVEN (wagging my finger at Snood lol) THOSE that were out with white women. Now, being who I am, i usually made a comment loud enough for the 'rude onlooking stare-face' to hear and be virtually smacked by..but I sort of have my own theory about this.
It basically centers on property, such an ugly word when referring to people, but *shrug* there it is anyway. I've asked a few black male friends about this and for them, it rubs them the wrong way when a black woman is with a white man (not any other race, just white) and it's about black women belonging to black men. I can't really put it any plainer or simpler than that because that's how the guys I asked thought about it.
K. I'll let the smarter people finish talking now
I once worked for a black man, in 1968. It infuriated him to see a black man married to a white woman, but he was tolerant of a white man marrying a black woman. He reasoned that a black person should not work to support any white person. It was okay when the white person worked for the black person. To me, it was always six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Until recently, the combination of white man and black woman was somewhat of an anomaly in our society. I remember once reading in a sociology course that in black/white relationships only one quarter of those relationships were black women/ white men, whereas 3/4 were black men and white women. In those years, often when you saw a black woman with a white man, she was an accomplished woman, often in the arts, where integrated relationships were more accepted.
Now that many black women have competed successfully in their chosen fields, it is natural that they will meet, socialize and develop relationships with those who are also in their field, and/or social stratum.
In the past, black men had a cohort of the vast majority of black women with whom to have relationships. Now they find that they are in competition with white men, which possibly engenders resentment on their parts.
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Now that many black women have competed successfully in their chosen fields, it is natural that they will meet, socialize and develop relationships with those who are also in their field, and/or social stratum.
I have never read a more racist statement clothed in a shroud of understanding! Black men have been in the upper echelons of their chosen fields for as long as I can remember. To use that as an answer smacks of "Jim Crow" thinking. "If I say it's so, it must be right".
Shawanga, this thread is full of understanding and support. To comment solely on one sentiment that you find negative says much about your outlook.
I've read that given the high percentage of black men in jail that successful black women may have trouble finding suitable mates.
The successful black women are the people complaining.
Shawanga wrote:Phoenix32890 wrote:
Now that many black women have competed successfully in their chosen fields, it is natural that they will meet, socialize and develop relationships with those who are also in their field, and/or social stratum.
I have never read a more racist statement clothed in a shroud of understanding! Black men have been in the upper echelons of their chosen fields for as long as I can remember. To use that as an answer smacks of "Jim Crow" thinking. "If I say it's so, it must be right".
Shawanga, I note you don't mention the number of black men that have been in the upper echelons of their chosen professions. Yes, the first black man to hold a medical degree was in 1837 (James McCune Smith), and Dr. Daniel Hale Williams was the first black physician that performed heart surgery.....but it wasn't until 1998 a black became a secetary of labor, 1992 for one to manage a major baseball league, 1984 for a NYC police commissioner 1989 for a black mayor of new york, the same year Colin Powell became Joint Chief of Staff....
All I can imagine is that you must be much younger than some of us. Nothing wrong with that, but if you are under a certain age, "as long as you can remember" hasn't been that long.
I'm only 49 and I can attest that black men (and women) have not occupied their fair share of important positions in my lifetime.
I tend, for instance, to take a long view as far as time, and recent history to me, as far as this subject matter, covers the entire last century.
What would Booker T. Washington make of the world if he saw it today? Wondering what lunch between him and Tiger Woods would be like?
Please don't look for racism where there is none. Phoenix post was quite valid, and well stated.
don't look for it where it ain't, but speak on it where it is. No one can really make that call but you.
true...but having read many of phoenixs post, just haven't ever gotten that from her.
.....
This is a difficult subject to post on. Actually, I've attempted to write something well thought out at least twice, and then hit the back button.
It's like this....we've all had our life experiences, and can give anecdotes on what we have seen....right or wrong.
Expressing either does not at all indicate what is going on in one's heart.
For instance, not to dwell on Phoenix, but her words were to me just factual in nature.....or, for instance, look at what Noddy just wrote....
I don't see noddy as a racist, but if someone else said those words, it would be too easy to jump up and yell "So, you're saying all black men are good for is to go to jail".
Yet, I don't believe that's what she was indicating at all.
It's hard to talk about racial issues, without at some point appearing racist yourself. That's because we've all experienced racist moments in our life.
Some of Shawanga's comments have appear racist to me. But I'm not going to go find them, dissect them, and derail my own muddled thoughts on this.
It's hard enough to say what you mean and mean what you say without having to worry about each word coming out right.
ok, to make an attempt....
I'm wondering what shawangas gut says about seeing a couple that's the "wrong" combination. Not what he should feel, or is trying to feel, but what is that irrational thought that runs through his head.
Many of the feelings we have are irrational, and we know it, so we don't want to admit to them.
In my earlier life, and this is all very irrational mind you...
I grew up with parents that took it granted that their children would just automatically know what was wrong with being black, or a jew, or something "other" Since I was supposed to innately know what the problem was, I knew I was never supposed to ask.
oh.....for instance....as far as the man/woman romance thing....
Once in a while during teenage years, I go up to NYC with a friend or 2, ususally girls...we'd take the train going into Grand Central Station. This was back in the 70's.
We were led to believe that if any black man approached us, we were sure to wind up as prostitutes with a needle in our arm within 48 hours.
We (I) received the message that black man only wanted a white woman so he could, I don't know, show the white man that he could do whatever he wanted with his white women.
Note the belief that women, white or black, belonged to men.
Of course I know that's irrational. But what that has left me with today is an odd feeling when I see a Young white woman with a Young black man.
I don't feel anything if the couple is....I can't give an exact age, but old enough that some irrational being in me feels that this wasn't some young white girl being sold into prostitution.
When I see a black woman/white man....I feel nothing. I visual note it, but have no feelings positive or negative.
So, I wonder what is jumping up and down in shawangas head, calling for attention at that visceral moment?
Shawanga wrote:JPB wrote:What about when you see a black man with a white woman?
It doesn't bother me at all. I am a Black man if that is relevant.
Well, what are the black women going to do while all of you are chasing after us? (Blonde women)
Chai wrote:Shawanga wrote:Phoenix32890 wrote:
Now that many black women have competed successfully in their chosen fields, it is natural that they will meet, socialize and develop relationships with those who are also in their field, and/or social stratum.
I have never read a more racist statement clothed in a shroud of understanding! Black men have been in the upper echelons of their chosen fields for as long as I can remember. To use that as an answer smacks of "Jim Crow" thinking. "If I say it's so, it must be right".
Shawanga, I note you don't mention the number of black men that have been in the upper echelons of their chosen professions. Yes, the first black man to hold a medical degree was in 1837 (James McCune Smith), and Dr. Daniel Hale Williams was the first black physician that performed heart surgery.....but it wasn't until 1998 a black became a secetary of labor, 1992 for one to manage a major baseball league, 1984 for a NYC police commissioner 1989 for a black mayor of new york, the same year Colin Powell became Joint Chief of Staff....
All I can imagine is that you must be much younger than some of us. Nothing wrong with that, but if you are under a certain age, "as long as you can remember" hasn't been that long.
I never said we had accomplished all we could. Whenever your accomplishments are controlled by the ruling class, how high you go can be limited. If I am a caucasian I may be more likely to hire "from within". As a person who has been on this planet more than 1/2 century, I feel I can speak on what I have seen.
[/quote]
Well, what are the black women going to do while all of you are chasing after us? (Blonde women)[/quote]
Roxx, I have good news for you. You have nothing to worry about. No Black man will ever be chasing after you.
Chai wrote:true...but having read many of phoenixs post, just haven't ever gotten that from her.
If the bullet isn't aimed at you, you are less likely to feel it's effects. You don't have the history to be able to feel the barbs of racism, especially in their stealth clothing. As a young boy I used to do yardwork to earn spending money. I once asked this lady for a drink of water, she brought it to me, and when I tried to return the cup she said "NO, you keep it". At the time I thought that "This nice white lady just gave me a cup". After experiences a few more of life's lessons I realize her motives now.
I know this isn't a really positive thing to admit, but truthfully, I've often felt that if I were black (especially in the US, and especially in the south) I wouldn't particularly trust white people as a race...and it wouldn't be gender specific. So, even though what you're feeling isn't exactly productive or positive- I think it's understandable to a degree, and that's based on what I've learned through experience - not just what I stereotypically choose to believe.
Because, truthfully, I'd rather NOT believe or feel that- but the fact is I have reason to.
But the thing that I've learned from my own personal experience is that there are people and personalities and situations that help one transcend the barriers that races erect against each other.
Luckily for me, my own parents were people like that. Even though they were both born and raised in the south during segregation and Jim Crow - neither of them ever said a word in front of me that taught me anything except to love and respect people as people.
And I still remember the first time I saw an interracial couple - I was about ten and it was on the steps of the Smithonian (my dad had taken us on a camping/museum/monument viewing trip in DC). And I still remember - I thought it was great. It made me happy-(I probably had strains of the Youngbloods - "Come on people now- smile on your brother... playing in my ten year old brain).
And now I work in a situation in which I am the only white person - the only white person in the room most days- but I almost always forget that- and I think everyone else does too- because we care about each other as PEOPLE first. The other day we were talking about osteoporosis and how small boned white women are more likely to get it - and I said, "You know people like me and....and I looked around to see who else fit the profile, and then I remembered that there was no one else like me and I finished up..."well I guess it's just people like me - in this room, anyway, I'm the one and only example"
It hadn't occurred to me before... because the students I have don't seem to have to remark upon it or remind me or even seem to notice the fact that I'm not like them in that way- because in alot of other ways- we're very similar.
You know Shawanga - how do you know what type of woman black men will find appealing or unappealing? That's one thing I've always hated - the belief alot of people seem to have that black men like a certain kind of white woman and that a certain kind of white woman likes black men.
That right there cheapens the fact of that love and/or relationship. As if love between people of the same race is based on personalities while interracial love is based on something else, something less individual and more stereotypically and blatantly sexual.
I can say from the bottom of my heart phoenix is not a stealth bomber.
Sorry if I misjudged your age. I suppose the way I read your prior post was not the way you intended it.
But, I still am curious....what IS your gut clenching about when you see a certain couple?
Like I was saying above, it certainly won't be rationale, but saying it may help you realize it's place.
Shawanga wrote:Chai wrote:true...but having read many of phoenixs post, just haven't ever gotten that from her.
If the bullet isn't aimed at you, you are less likely to feel it's effects. You don't have the history to be able to feel the barbs of racism, especially in their stealth clothing. As a young boy I used to do yardwork to earn spending money. I once asked this lady for a drink of water, she brought it to me, and when I tried to return the cup she said "NO, you keep it". At the time I thought that "This nice white lady just gave me a cup". After experiences a few more of life's lessons I realize her motives now.
I have deleted this twice, but I still got it here.
I think you are carrying these childhood slights and injustices (yes they were real and wrong) around with you undigested.
You need to go back and chew them up for the lessons that they were, and realize that they are affecting your thinking now.
That racist lady could have been my Grandmother, who in the years since I heard her utter things that still make me cringe, has grown into a very sympathetic old girl, and now judges people of all colors on merit.
You must realize that the world is not the same as when these things occurred.
I used to have similar thoughts to yours, as a very young adult, but after realizing that I truly cared about many people of all colors, and that they all had faults and strengths, I got past it.
One question....A very real one.
Do you find white women sexually attractive? (other than roxxxxxxxxxxx)
RH
