Softener resin escaping

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What I've told you about sizing and setting up your softener is not just for one with a Clack valve, it is for all softeners. I think you've been missing that point all along, it's probably a noggin filter thingy. lol

I really haven't missed the point Gary but if I have (in your opinion!) then I'll be the first to admit that, yes, it will definitely be a Noggin Filter Fart. When I went over today's findings with my wife (the seller sending me resin) she said (trying her hardest NOT to give me too much credit) "How the heck is the average person going to figure all this out?"
Remember that it was me who came up with the idea that maybe, just maybe, I didn't have a whole cu ft of resin. And I even had the ability to prove that I didn't (removing the unit from the by-pass, removing the head, measuring resin-depth etc). So the ol' noggin' ain't doing too bad eh?

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BTW, I may not have mentioned that since 2002 to early in 2003 I have had my suppliers ship a top basket with every softener I've sold online

Reason?

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Anyway, snap the top basket in its groove and replace the 2.7 gpm with a 1.5 DLFC button (or as close as the choice in the manual) and install it rounded edged hole side toward the control valve.

Where can I get one mailorder Gary? I just don't want to get into the debate of DLFC sizing with my seller. He told me weeks ago that I'd been supplied with the right size. And, yep, I know which way it goes and where it lives.

Thanks Gary!! I just want to get this sorted so I can apply my noggin to the next of life's (many) issues. Good job I retired early.

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So Gary......ol' buddy......ol' pal. I'm at your website and doing the calculation thing.

I have -
2 people.
20 grains hardness (no fe or mg)
84 gpd total average use (from the Clack Diagnostics in my unit).
So that means I need 1680 grains/day capacity.
For 7 days that means I need (1680 x 7) 11760 grains or 13440 with a day reserve (for an 8-day cycle).

So then I go down the page and see the "Salt Dose Capacity" that is just higher than my needed 13440 grains. That is the 15200 which has a salt dose of 4lbs.

This will give me 760 galls of soft water and I can program the Calendar Overide for 9 days.

How am I doing?

Yes I'm aware (you've stated it MANY times!) that if I exceed the Service Flow rating of 1 cu ft of my medium then hard water will by-pass it. As stated in another post I have one tap that flows (wide open) at 6.6gpm. I'll use it carefully!

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Yes you did good but set the capacity to 13 and the salt to 4.0 lbs. and day 8. You don't need the reserve because your Clack WS-1 has variable reserve and will calculate it, the next day's reserve, every midnight.

Instead of where you bought it, go to the local dealer for the DLFC button.

Yeah you came up with the reduced volume of resin. Who'da thought it would be a top basket unseated and lost resin. I should have because of the higher gpm DLFC. It's the first time in years I've been stumped, except for SusiQ's problem of lost resin, with a top basket IIRC.... ya think!

I started sending top baskets because I got tired of the phone calls about a small amount of resin going to drain the first time some of my customers put water in the resin tank, which is normal without a top basket. And I told them that in the instructions I send but, the phone rang frequently asking if I was sure...

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Gary Slusser wrote:

.......go to the local dealer for the DLFC button.......replace the 2.7 gpm with a 1.5 DLFC.

Yep when I go see the local dealer with my "misplaced top basket/low resin" findings I'll ask what DLFC they use on a 1 cu ft and ask to buy another one. In the manual are 1.3 and 1.7 versions.

Question Gary. I'll assume there is a bottom basket on the delivery tube. How is that fitted? Does that have the potential to get disconnected too? When I removed my valve recently I raised the tube slightly to get at the basket that had slid down the tube. I couldn't have pulled the lower basket off by any chance could I?

Can I remove the delivery tube completely from the resin bed and push it back down without causing problems?

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Zozzie wrote:

. I'll assume there is a bottom basket on the delivery tube. How is that fitted? Does that have the potential to get disconnected too?

The bottom basket can crack/split under pressure. It is glued onto the riser pipe... this step could have been skipped.

No offense intended Zozzie, but these are among the many, many things a pro installer would check prior to installation.

I never take it for granted that my supplier did everything right before shipping the system to me.
I owe it to myself and my clients to inspect everything before I show up to install the system.

_________________
WHAT CAN H2O MAN DO FOR YOU?

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H2O_MAN wrote:

The bottom basket can crack/split under pressure. It is glued onto the riser pipe... this step could have been skipped.

I don't really think that mine could be missing/broken Water_Man. I'm just curious how it's installed. But, as I raised my delivery tube I didn't want to committ a no-no and have the bugger fall off the bottom.
I think if I did have a problem with it I'd have mega resin in my tap filters - and there is none.

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No offense intended Zozzie, but these are among the many, many things a pro installer would check prior to installation.

I'm sure the assembler did the job just fine. I talked to him and he doesn't have a clue how the top basket got to be dislodged. I'm my own installer, far from being a pro, and I'm quite willing to accept my own shortcomings. I just have fun. I plumb, wire, mechanic, build and install just about everything in my house. A/C and carpets are the only things I don't do.

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I never take it for granted that my supplier did everything right before shipping the system to me. I owe it to myself and my clients to inspect everything before I show up to install the system.

But you assume the valve assemblers assembled all of the valve correctly? Where does it end?

I just thought I had a few semi-innocent questions about something I know nothing about - the lower basket/filter. Crying or Very sad

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Zozzie wrote:

I'll assume there is a bottom basket on the delivery tube. How is that fitted? Does that have the potential to get disconnected too? When I removed my valve recently I raised the tube slightly to get at the basket that had slid down the tube. I couldn't have pulled the lower basket off by any chance could I?

Can I remove the delivery tube completely from the resin bed and push it back down without causing problems?

The bottom basket should be glued to the distributer tube. The tip of the bottom basket sits in a dimple in the bottom of the resin tank.

If you have a gravel under bed and lifted the tube enough for the gravel or resin to get under the bottom basket tip then screwing the control valve down or pushing the tube back down may Clack, err crack the bottom basket.

If you have little enough resin left and can drain the water you can lay the tank down flat. If you can see the dimple at the bottom then you can set the distributer tube and hold it while you move the tank upright but it's hard to do with wet resin.

When you regenerate the gravel will end up at the bottom because it's heavier than the resin.

If it were my softener or someone I cared about then the way to know that the bottom basket is seated properly is to remove the resin and gravel and set the tube in the upright tank as if you were assembling the softener from scratch. Then add the gravel and the correct amount of resin. a plus is that you could inspect the bottom basket to see if it is glued to the tube or cracked.

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justalurker wrote:

Zozzie wrote:
I'll assume there is a bottom basket on the delivery tube. How is that fitted? Does that have the potential to get disconnected too? When I removed my valve recently I raised the tube slightly to get at the basket that had slid down the tube. I couldn't have pulled the lower basket off by any chance could I?

Can I remove the delivery tube completely from the resin bed and push it back down without causing problems?

The bottom basket should be glued to the distributer tube. The tip of the bottom basket sits in a dimple in the bottom of the resin tank.

If you have a gravel under bed and lifted the tube enough for the gravel or resin to get under the bottom basket tip then screwing the control valve down or pushing the tube back down may Clack, err crack the bottom basket.

If you have little enough resin left and can lay the tank down flat to see the dimple at the bottom then you can set the distributer tube and hold it while you move the tank upright but it's hard to do.

When you regenerate the gravel will end up at the bottom because it's heavier than the resin.

If it were my softener or someone I cared about then the way to know that the bottom basket is seated properly is to remove the resin and gravel and set the tube in the upright tank as if you were assembling the softener from scratch. Then add the gravel and the correct amount of resin. a plus is that you could inspect the bottom basket to see if it is glued to the tube or cracked.

Good ideas 'Lurker. I did plan on emptying the resin tank when I get my new resin (it's on its way) and then I'll get a good look at the end of the tube. Any good ideas on how to measure an exact cubic foot? Ok I think I found it in an on-line metric converter. 1cu ft = 0.0283 cu mtrs = 28.3 litres. I can measure that with a litre measuring cup.

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Zozzie wrote:

Any good ideas on how to measure an exact cubic foot?

12" x 12" x 12" here in the states... metric up there?

Aren't you expecting 1 cubic foot of new resin? If so, use the whole box and throw out the old stuff :wink:

Do you have a gravel under bed or not?

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justalurker wrote:

Zozzie wrote:
Any good ideas on how to measure an exact cubic foot?

12" x 12" x 12" here in the states..

**FAINT!!** Good grief 'Lurker I know that!! Rolling Eyes

It's just very tough to measure a 12x12x12 block of tiny rolling beads! I'm thinking that the buggers won't stay still when I try to stack 'em.

Actually I'm going to my local Clack dealer and I'm gonna measure the inches of resin in one of his 9x48 tanks. His are translucent so I can see the level from across the room. My tank is black wrapped. I guess I'll have to assume his 1cu ft units were actually filled with 1 cu ft of resin. Silly me eh?

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metric up there?

But of course! Plus Momma Z has a litre measuring cup and I misplaced the 1 cu ft measure Rolling Eyes

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Aren't you expecting 1 cubic foot of new resin? If so, use the whole box and throw out the old stuff :wink:

I won't know 'till it arrives. My resin is 14" deep in the tank so, just my luck, they won't send the whole thing. I'm making contingency plans. Laughing

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Do you have a gravel under bed or not?

Dunno till I empty it out.

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Zozzie wrote:

Question Gary. I'll assume there is a bottom basket on the delivery tube. How is that fitted? Does that have the potential to get disconnected too? When I removed my valve recently I raised the tube slightly to get at the basket that had slid down the tube. I couldn't have pulled the lower basket off by any chance could I?

Can I remove the delivery tube completely from the resin bed and push it back down without causing problems?

In most softeners, the bottom basket is cemented onto the DT.
The DT should be even with the top of the tank but IIRC, and I may be wrong, the Clack allows the distributor tube to be a 1/2" higher to a 1/2" lower than the top of the tank BUT it should be down into the dimple in the center bottom of the tank so gravel or resin can not get under it. So you should be ok.

Fleck is even with the top of the tank, Autotrol is 1.25" above.... Clack is 1/2" above to below? I'm talking to myself... Anyway, you'll set it correctly when you replace the resin. And why haven't you done that yet, won't Mrs Z let you yet!

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Gary Slusser wrote:

In most softeners, the bottom basket is cemented onto the DT.
The DT should be even with the top of the tank but IIRC, and I may be wrong, the Clack allows the distributor tube to be a 1/2" higher to a 1/2" lower than the top of the tank BUT it should be down into the dimple in the center bottom of the tank so gravel or resin can not get under it. So you should be ok.

Why is gravel used in some resin tanks and not in others?

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I'm talking to myself.

I haven't started that yet and I'm not looking forward to it. Crying or Very sad

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Anyway, you'll set it correctly when you replace the resin. And why haven't you done that yet, won't Mrs Z let you yet!

The resin hasn't arrived yet! I phoned the M/O guy on Monday and he said he'd ship out a supply for me. Momma Z better keep out of my way when it arrives.

If found this info for inserting resin. I know this is a Fleck unit but is the resin install info on pages 6-9 good info?

http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/files/7000%20Complete.pdf

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Better softeners come with gravel underbedding. It's good stuff for a number of reasons.

Wash yer mouth! You don't have a Fllllleck!

Their instructions leave a lot to be desired so you should look for some more.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Better softeners come with gravel underbedding. It's good stuff for a number of reasons.

And those reasons are? Remember, I am an info-absorbing tech-head.

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Wash yer mouth! You don't have a Fllllleck!

I knooooowwww, but the tank-filling info should be fairly generic eh?

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Their instructions leave a lot to be desired so you should look for some more.

And where, in your learned opinion, might I find some? Throw me a bone!

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You need a funnel. Put it in backwash before you put water in it and you'll be fine. Tape the top of the DT to prevent resin down it.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

You need a funnel. Put it in backwash before you put water in it and you'll be fine. Tape the top of the DT to prevent resin down it.

Yes that's just what the Fleck instructions say. Give 'em a read.

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Zozzie wrote:

Gary Slusser wrote:
Better softeners come with gravel underbedding. It's good stuff for a number of reasons.

And those reasons are?

Gary didn't answer this question so all I can do is assume he doesn't know. Anyone else?

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Zozzie wrote:

Zozzie wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
Better softeners come with gravel underbedding. It's good stuff for a number of reasons.

And those reasons are?

Gary didn't answer this question so all I can do is assume he doesn't know. Anyone else?

Maybe I can help, what is your question?

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Zozzie wrote:
Zozzie wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
Better softeners come with gravel underbedding. It's good stuff for a number of reasons.

And those reasons are?

Gary didn't answer this question so all I can do is assume he doesn't know. Anyone else?

Maybe I can help, what is your question?

Did I miss something here? Confused

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What are you wanting to know?

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Softener resin escaping

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