Timber it was my understanding via your post that you think that national security was breached, i have seen nothing that indicates the memo contained any "national security" information. I do think it is a flap that has no legs other than the attempt of FOX NEWS to make an issue where none existed.
I don't imply National Security has been breached, Dys, just that the security awareness of some of the committee members was unpropitious.
BillW wrote:Can't quite see it your way timber, wonder why..........
If what you say is true then the Repubs are the security problem in reading an Intelligence Committee memorandum in open session. Gees, get real!!!!!!!!
Only that's not at all what happened. The memo was leaked to a member of the press. It was only later discussed on the floor after it was published in the media.
So in what way was that a breach of security, Scrat? I mean, specifically?
Tartarin wrote:So in what way was that a breach of security, Scrat? I mean, specifically?
I
did not claim that it was a breach of security. (I believe Timber may have, but I did not.) I don't personally think that it was. I
do consider it a huge breach of ethics and conduct that anyone on that committee was using, intending to use, or even simply thinking about using the committee for party politics in the manner outlined in that memo. Especially that committee, especially during a time of war.
Zell Miller is right. Heads should roll. (Sadly, I suspect that Timber is also right, and none will.)
timberlandko wrote:I don't imply National Security has been breached, Dys, just that the security awareness of some of the committee members was unpropitious.
Well, Timber, that may have been what you intended to say -- but I'm not sure that stacks up with what you actually said.
Here's a quote:
timberlandko wrote:Tartarin wrote:What's wrong with the memo, Scrat?
Well, for starters, it indicates:
1) The security of The Intellignce Oversight Committee has been breached
2) That breach of security falls to The Democrats on the committee...
Could you be a tad more specific Scrat? Is this a first? Is it something Republican have never done?
I'd like to remind everyone that committee memos leaked to Sean Hannity are one thing; a CIA covert operative's name leaked to Bob Novak by a 'senior White House official' is something else.
One is a felony; one is a fart.
Scrat, you're fond of reality....which is which?
Quote:"The Bush White House tried to intimidate me and to discourage others from exposing the lies they told to justify the war. Some senior people in the Bush administration betrayed our country by exposing my wife's cover at the CIA because they deemed their political agenda to be more important than our national security.
Not so. George Bush's Administration has betrayed our trust. I know that personally."
--Ambassador Joseph Wilson
Does anyone know how John Ashcroft's investigation is going?
That would be a security breach, they need a coverup first!!!!!
It's funny that everything that comes out of the WhiteHouse and everywhere else Republican is political, but the Dems gotta be anything but.
Another whinning, hypocritical Republican action - disgusting. BTW, Zeller Miller is not Democrat - so don't try that one, don't hold water.......
Well, I see my earlier "Security Breach" was less precisely focused than it might have been, however, I said the security of the committe had been breached, not that national security had been breached. While related, the two are hardly the same. I would be most interested to learn who Hannity's source for the document was. Speculation is rife, but all Hannity has said so far is that we would be "shocked" to learn who gave it to him.
Tartarin wrote:Could you be a tad more specific Scrat? Is this a first? Is it something Republican have never done?
What does that matter? Would you only prosecute the first murderer? I don't care if this has happened a thousand times before; show me those instances and I'll be equally appalled.
But the fact is we know that
this happened and we know that it was wrong. The notion that you or I should care less if other people have ever acted similarly is just a smokescreen.
I don't think this was wrong, Scrat. I think it was fair game -- much fairer than the Republicans have been playing. The behaviors of DeLay and cohorts are appalling. The revelations of the discoveries of the Intelligence Committee (the legislative branch the other day wouldn't record its votes) give power to the people -- and where else should the power be, in your view? Do you fear their judgment?
Tartarin wrote:I don't think this was wrong, Scrat. I think it was fair game -- much fairer than the Republicans have been playing. The behaviors of DeLay and cohorts are appalling. The revelations of the discoveries of the Intelligence Committee (the legislative branch the other day wouldn't record its votes) give power to the people -- and where else should the power be, in your view? Do you fear their judgment?
You see nothing wrong in using the time and resources of the intelligence committee to formulate a Democrat party political game plan???? Really????
No, I don't suppose you would. You don't seem to care in the least about ethics or moral or even legal behavior from among your own; but God help a conservative who gives you even the slightest opportunity to claim malfeasance, then boy-o-boy do you start to care.
Come on, Scrat. Even if that were true, how often have members of Congress used the time and resources of various committees for political purposes? Are you willing to state that this isn't a regular activity of the Republican members?
My god, DeLay used federal officials to try to capture and force Texas Democrats to vote their way. I'm sure there are others here who can point to frequent examples of Republican "lapses".
Ye gods! To try to hang the Democrats because they have exposed Republican lies about intelligence activities is really pretty silly -- or base -- take yer choice!
Nixon's crew may have developed political dirty tricks into an artform, but the Dems sure bought the playbook, and do the drill well. As for DeLay/Texas, there are those who figure he was simply trying to get the obstructionist crybabies to honor their constitutional obligation. Post-Census redistricting is required by Texas law, and it is unconscionable that the whiners would be allowed to once again force the matter to the courts rather than decide it on the floor of the legislature just because they found it inconvenient to their aims that the districts be rearranged to properly reflect the shifting demographics of the population. Having dwindling influence with The Electorate, the Dems, rather than address and remedy the causes for their decline, run away, fillibuster, and mount lawsuits. That isn't political leadership, that's pouting.
Tartarin wrote:Come on, Scrat. Even if that were true, how often have members of Congress used the time and resources of various committees for political purposes? Are you willing to state that this isn't a regular activity of the Republican members?
I am ready to state that I have seen no evidence or even charges made that Republicans have done this, and I reiterate my statement that I would find such actions equally despicable no matter who did them. Your moral relativism disgusts me. You argue that we shouldn't care about this because you assume that it happens all the time. I don't assume that, and I do think it is serious.
But again, we BOTH know that you don't care about this because it has to do with Dems. If Republicans had done anything like this, you'd be leading the charge to string them up.
Add this to the long list of failures
The Fruits of Secrecy
Published: November 8, 2003
One of President Bush's first acts was to convene a task force to produce a national energy strategy. Led by Vice President Dick Cheney, the group met secretly with hundreds of witnesses. It heard from few environmentalists, but many lobbyists and executives from industries whose fortunes would be affected by any new policies. Despite lawsuits, the White House has refused to divulge the names of those privileged to get Mr. Cheney's ear. The results, however, have been plain as day: policies that broadly favor industry — including big campaign contributors — at the expense of the environment and public health.
That unfortunate bias was demonstrated anew this week when the Environmental Protection Agency decided to drop investigations into more than 140 power plants, refineries and other industrial sites suspected of violating the Clean Air Act. The winner is industry; the loser, the public.
The administration had already weakened the cases' legal foundation: a provision in the act that required companies to install up-to-date pollution controls whenever they increased harmful emissions by making major upgrades to their plants. The utilities had complained that the rule kept them from producing more power and discouraged investments in energy efficiency. Though the companies produced no convincing evidence, Mr. Cheney's task force swallowed the argument whole, and in due course it forced Christie Whitman, then head of the E.P.A., to jettison the rule in favor of a more permissive regime allowing companies to increase pollution without paying for new controls.
The administration insists lamely that a handful of cases in litigation will be pursued. It seems clear, however, that the many investigations that have not reached litigation will be dropped altogether or at best restarted under the new rules — rules so full of loopholes that it is highly unlikely that anybody will ever be found to have violated them.
The administration swore to Congress months ago that this would not happen, that all the old investigations would be aggressively pursued under the old rules. So in addition to another rollback of environmental law, we have here another depressing example of official mendacity. Abandoning these cases is also deeply unfair to the companies that have already installed pollution controls in a good-faith effort to comply with the law.
As is so often the case these days, the burden of defending the environment now falls to the states. Eliot Spitzer, the New York attorney general who has aggressively used the old rules to reduce pollution from power plants, has joined other states in suing the E.P.A. for weakening the law. He has also asked the E.P.A. to turn its files over to the states so they can pursue violators on their own. Finally, some in Congress are calling for an investigation into the administration's behavior. And why not? Congress has a right to be unhappy with a regulatory and judicial retreat that undermines much of what the Clean Air Act stands for.
And the beat goes on.
"You see nothing wrong in using the time and resources of the intelligence committee to formulate a Democrat party political game plan???? Really????"
I think this is like yelling "FIRE" at a cook-out, Scrat. And the phrase which is particularly laughable is the "formulate a Democrat [not an adjective] party political game plan." If one has to look at this from a narrow, partisan viewpoint, one would have to say that the Republicans have handed their own ribs, cooked to perfection, to a gaping citizenry.
I'm damn glad someone is willing to go to bat for reality, whether a Democratic staffer or disaffected Republican staffer or whoever it turns out to be.
