What Do You Owe Your Country? What Do You Give Back?

UH-Uh no fair---Walter owes me a response first

Sophia

Would you please inform Sir Hobitbob that I have been with this thread from the beginning some 3900 responses back, and I want him to know that it takes a lot of hard work to keep this thread from turning into a back slapping lefty chat room. :wink:

I wonder what would happen if "the left" decamped from this thread?

Gee---maybe if you'd leave we might find out----but please don't ----- you're too predictable and too much fun.

perception wrote

Sophia

Would you please inform Sir Hobitbob that I have been with this thread from the beginning some 3900 responses back, and I want him to know that it takes a lot of hard work to keep this thread from turning into a back slapping lefty chat room.

Whoops sorry Sophia---having a senior moment--- I thought for a moment this was the Iran, Iraq thread.
My apologies. I'm gone.

I have had a really crappy day. An insight into my pathetic mood, and coming response.

I understand how perception felt, as I was put in the position of defending my reasons to start this thread, by a few posters pretty early on in the thread. Those who felt and expressed a loyalty of sorts or indebtedness to their country were severely questioned by those, who did not. Setanta, dlowan and I have been 'called on the carpet' for our beliefs. Perception addressed it, and all hell has broken loose.

I did not see a reciprocal questioning or doubting of those who did not feel an indebtedness, until perception turned the tables (although, in my estimation, possibly rougher--possibly not). This innocent question seems to have been fashioned into a battering ram, and I'm actually sad about it.

I had no political intent--no partisan thought whatsoever--no jingoistic national foot to put on the butt of other countries or liberals-- I was interested in how this group of people felt in relation to their give and take with their own country/community. I'd seen the conversation elsewhere, and it opens a new dimension to the member--one I wanted to see.

I really tried to keep it on the higher plane, but I got more than a little tired of having to defend my motives for asking the question.

I was glad to get the perspective of the non-indebtedness contingent--but that appreciation evaporated when and if their words drove us into Us Vs Them. I don't agree with everything perception has shared--but as is frequently the case--perception didn't begin the division here--he merely took offense to it--didn't mince words--and has drawn all the attention to his response.

I wish we could have merely shared our opinions on the subject forthrightly--and allowed others to share theirs.

I think, Tartarin, to answer your question--if the left decamped, there would probably be longer, exultant postings on appreciation for one's country, interspersed with personal stories, positive or negative (which I love)--but I didn't just want to hear one side of the story. It is good to know all perspectives. All are welcomed. I was just hoping we could share them openly, without fear of reprisals.

What constitutes a reprisal Sofia? I ask because you seem to think it only occurs when people disagree with you.

When a rightie is diagreed with you chide the leftie saying the rightie was "just sharing an opinion". As if the leftie was not.

Here you say the lefties are giving "reprisals". Are perception's attempts at being a pain "reprisals" as well?

Sophia

Once again, no good deed (yours by asking the question) goes UNpunished.

Madame Sofia (p.s..what happened to the Buffy icon, I lilke that one....pout , pout, pout...), What makes me willing to discuss such issues with you is that you seem willing (from comments on other threads, including our jousting about Anne Coulter's adam's apple and large, manly hands ) to discuss, rather than to immediately condemn anyone's opinion, and by extension, the poter who holds that opinion, that differs from yours. You would appear to keep an open mind, and be interested in debate. Others (who shall remain nameles, on BOTH sides of the fence) see froums like this as ways to try and bully others. Perhapos they have unhappy lives, perhaps they cannot afford to pay for a submissive prostitute, who knows? Discussions with you, McGee, and othetr conservatives is usually enlioghtening, and worthwhile. keep up the good work.
Part of this is my fault, I ignored the first rule of dealing with trolls: Ignore them! Many of them are like the guy in the bar who picks a fight with the biggest, meanst person there, adn then considers his getting the living snot kicked out of him a vindication, gets back up, and tries for more. To people like the above poster, surely there is a club near you that has a fetish night where you can be tied up and spanked...maybe of you do that you won't feel obligated to do the same here.

An argument or an insult.

This was not set up as a debate. It was a question for each individual. The answer is based on a feeling. I didn't want people on this thread, sharing their feelings and then being argued with about them. I was just hoping for a friendly conversational exchange of feelings on the subject.

You can't possibly think I was under the impression that no one would disagree with me. I enjoyed my interactions with several people, who didn't agree with me. It just made me sad to see some of the participants challenged, insulted and held up for scrutiny.

Certainly, in debates, this happens. I didn't think it would happen in this thread.

And you are saying that this is the left's fault somehow? Just the left gives "reprisals" and just the right "shares their opinion"?



Show me one time you took up the bat for a leftie saying that they were "just sharing their opinion". Show me one time that you chide a rightie for their "reprisals".

No. You said that. What I said is on the preceding page. Reading back will show anyone who is interested, who challenged and argued, and who didn't.

Anyway, the thread failed, and I don't feel like arguing any more.

I see you've never met West Virginia.......

Sofia,

I don't feel like arguing either, I left the thread long ago and let others have the last word. But as I have said before you are fantastically one sided in your calls for "free speech" and as long as you are willing to talk about "reprisals" I will seek your clarification on it.

A rightie can be the bigest ass and if any lefties disagree with him you'll chide them saying the rightie has the right to "just express his opinion" without fear of "reprisals".

You never do this for the left and without saying as much it's pretty obvious that your concern in this regard is exclusively for the right.

I'm not asking you to say you are not one-sided about this. i am asking you to show me just one example of you telling a rightie to back off because a leftie is "just sharing their opinion".

No matter how caustic the rightie you are willing to do that for them and brand the left as giving "reprisals".

When will you call a spade a spade and chide a rightie for their insults? Think about it. If you can give me ONE example where you do so I will be satisfied.

I always get a kick out of those who would apologize for being "passionate on their politics." Or, not apologizing for that matter. Most of the participants are on a single track and the train is head in the direction of a predetermined destination. Except that the destination is, at best, intangible and based on ideals. Pragmatism is too often thrown out the window and politicians know how to do that best.

Ah, what tangled threads we weave!

I am very grateful to Sofia (thank you!) for creating a forum where we can address this facet of our beliefs. Our beliefs. Ours.
It felt really good just to state my position, free and clear, and even rant a bit to drive it home. My position. What I think. How it works for me.

Once stated, I feel no urge to argue or defend or attack anyone's position. It is what it is, so I read what other people think with great curiosity -- all these opinions from all these different backgrounds.
Every opinion is true and valid *from some framework*, so I look for the framework. I want to know how your ideas came to be.

Problems seem to arise when people stop talking about themselves. But that's what we know best isn't it? Why select someone elses point and chew it to pieces, when all we really have to contribute is ourselves? I'd much rather understand a person's own ideals and background than listen to them barking after someone down the street.

That's just me though. Fascinating thread!
"What Do You Owe Your Country? What Do You Give Back?"
Where do your ideas and motives come from, no matter what they are?

... ...

Perception's attack on Walter, not an attack on Walter's opinions or beliefs, but an attack on Walter becasue of where he is from, is an indication that the man has little of substance to say. In the short time I have been here, Walter has been nothing but welcoming, friendly,and polite. He is the epitome of the "voice of reason" on this forum. I am offended beacuse loudmouths like perception tend to make the rest of the world think that Americans are all like him. Individuals like this, who loudly proclaim thir "patriotism" in a manner similar to that of a bulldozer are the ones whose love of country should be questioned. My 2p.

It was an interesting subject.

And this, my friends, is exactly what we owe and give back to our various countries and communities.

People educating themselves and providing constructive feedback to improve and protect the environment they work, play and live in. Sprinkle in some passionate debate along with a dash of humor and we have a community/country to be proud of.

There's room for all of us.