One point about this, the Democrat controlled congress never allowed full deduction of medical insurance costs for self employed until finally the Republican controlled congress phased it in a step at a time. This was criminal in my opinion.
I am in fact in favor of bigger income tax breaks for people buying their own insurance, such as self employed. Democrats have opposed these types of plans.
okie wrote:Nobody's making them live in Baltimore. Is that our fault too? Or Bush's fault?
People have to live somewhere. You don't know all the factors behind their decision and are therefore not qualified to judge them based upon that.
In fact, I think that each and every attack that has been made upon them has turned out to be mostly or completely false. So you guys change tactics and try a new angle each time. Weak.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:woiyo wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:woiyo wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:Woiyo & Baldimo & Okie,
There wasn't anything wrong with using the Frost family as an example of people who were helped by SCHIP; they were ideal candidates for it.
JTT may be interested in only insulting you guys, but I'm not - I'd rather beat your asses in a policy discussion. Which one of you has the guts to step up and explain why you think they shouldn't have qualified for the SCHIP program?
Cycloptichorn
This is not a big issue with me but I enjoy bumping butts with you.
Here is my question/issue. If they have the resources to pay for private school to the tune of 40K.yr, I would assume they have sibstantial resources. Therefore, why should I the taxpayer, subsidize their healthcare? Apparently they have resources and they decided that health care insurance was not a big ticket item. They decided to self insure.
Why do you think they are a good example?
That's why research is actually important - they don't pay 40k per year for their private school. One kid gets it free due to the brain injury he suffered in the wreck, the other one gets financial aid from his school - they pay about 500 a month.
It takes more then just a few facts to make decisions like the ones which seem to have been made by many right-wingers. If they had bothered to call the people and ask them, politely, they probably would have gotten the info they needed without having to stalk the family; and their conclusions would be a lot more accurate.
Cycloptichorn
That is not what the original post says, but I will take you at your word.
So they pay 6K (500/mo) to send thier children to this private school. Let's assume then that this private school is NOT necessary as a result of the injury and they decided to forgo public school for Private school. This is a decision the parents made.
Therefore, I will again ask (which you did not answer), since the Parents decided to allocate the $500.00/mo to education and self insure health insurance, why should the taxpayer subsidize their health insurance?
They apparently have the resources.
Can you respond direct to the question of public subsidy and forgo editorial commentary on so called Right Wingers?
Once again, further research.
The lowest price they could find on health insurance was more then 1200 a month; that's 1/3rd of their income, every year, on health insurance, for a family of 6. That's unsupportable. Nobody would be able to make ends meet under such circumstances.
Cycloptichorn
You STILL have not answered the question as to WHY, as a result of THEIR decision to SELF INSURE, it is the taxpayers responsibility to subsidize their health care?
PLEASE, all you are doing is providing excuses for their choice. PLEASE give me a reason I (the taxpayer) should pay for their health insurance?
Because they can't afford it, and we have a program set up to help pay for kids' health insurance when their parents can't afford it.
Next question.
Cycloptichorn
Call it attack, but I have yet to see any proof they could not afford insurance. Staging such stuff is an insult to decent people that care. People are compassionate and ready to help people truly in need, but being blamed as part of a political operation is an insult, cylcops, and that is all it is. They are going to have to open up their personal finances and prove more than they have to me. For example, they have more property and live in a larger house than most of the people paying for their insurance and the people paying for their stuff are the same people they are now blaming. Sorry, they are going to have to show more than a 12 year old reading some Congressmen's script.
Cycloptichorn wrote:Because they can't afford it, and we have a program set up to help pay for kids' health insurance when their parents can't afford it.
Next question.
Cycloptichorn
That's it? That is your reason? THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT?
What about personal responsibility? Can the wife work? Can he get a second job?
Okay, this is an answer to both of you guys.
They don't have to prove anything to either of you. Your opinion is immaterial. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe they deserve it. Their state has guidelines for the SCHIP program, which they met, and were approved for it. They have passed approval already and certainly aren't looking for a bunch of wingers to say 'oh, okay, you deserve it.'
Woiyo, you have no idea how hard the guy works or doesn't work at his job, so who can say?
Okie, you would have them sell their house and business in order to pay for health insurance? Doesn't make much sense.
Neither of you is showing an ounce of understanding in this situation. To begin with, the concept of selling their house or going into debt to pay for health insurance is laughable. Stating 'they should work more' is ridiculous, as you have no clue what their day-to-day situation is. All you know is that you don't like people getting handouts b/c it takes your hard-earned money away from you.
And that's bullshit because I don't see either of you complaining about military spending. Woiyo at least has made noises in this direction. We spend in Iraq every week what the Dems proposed we spend in addition to the current amount once a year.
Neither of you are concerned with saving money; both of you are concerned with the idea of keeping people from getting assistance.
This is a very frustrating conversation for me, b/c I know - know - that if you found yourself in the same position that they did, you would have taken the SCHIP program for your kids as well. And you're lying if you say any different.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote: It doesn't matter whether or not you believe they deserve it. Their state has guidelines for the SCHIP program, which they met, and were approved for it. Cycloptichorn
Then why are they complaining?
And as I said, I should move to a bigger house maybe twice as big. You can pay for it, cyclops.
okie wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote: It doesn't matter whether or not you believe they deserve it. Their state has guidelines for the SCHIP program, which they met, and were approved for it. Cycloptichorn
Then why are they complaining?
Who is complaining, exactly? Specifically, please.
Quote:And as I said, I should move to a bigger house maybe twice as big. You can pay for it, cyclops.
This is a non-sequitur and unrelated to our current conversation. Which, you should realize, is usually a sign that you are losing the argument.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:Okay, this is an answer to both of you guys.
They don't have to prove anything to either of you. Your opinion is immaterial. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe they deserve it. Their state has guidelines for the SCHIP program, which they met, and were approved for it. They have passed approval already and certainly aren't looking for a bunch of wingers to say 'oh, okay, you deserve it.'
Woiyo, you have no idea how hard the guy works or doesn't work at his job, so who can say?
Okie, you would have them sell their house and business in order to pay for health insurance? Doesn't make much sense.
Neither of you is showing an ounce of understanding in this situation. To begin with, the concept of selling their house or going into debt to pay for health insurance is laughable. Stating 'they should work more' is ridiculous, as you have no clue what their day-to-day situation is. All you know is that you don't like people getting handouts b/c it takes your hard-earned money away from you.
And that's bullshit because I don't see either of you complaining about military spending. Woiyo at least has made noises in this direction. We spend in Iraq every week what the Dems proposed we spend in addition to the current amount once a year.
Neither of you are concerned with saving money; both of you are concerned with the idea of keeping people from getting assistance.
This is a very frustrating conversation for me, b/c I know - know - that if you found yourself in the same position that they did, you would have taken the SCHIP program for your kids as well. And you're lying if you say any different.
Cycloptichorn
You say the family doesn't have to prove anything but I disagree. If you are seeking govt assistance then you should have to prove you really need it. How much do you work? What do you spend your money on? How much money do you make? These are some basic questions that should have to be answered and verified before any tax payer services are provided.
I keep asking this question but nobody ever answers so I'll ask it again and see if I can get lucky...
What about those of us who CAN afford insurance but are turned down by insurance companies?
We CAN afford it but we were turned down by a major insurer because our son has mild asthma. We found insurance through another company but we recently received a letter saying they wouldn't cover any more of our son's medical claims until there had been a more thorough review -- even though we were completely honest about his MILD asthma when filling in the paperwork.
We are still awaiting their review -- we've been waiting for two months.
I think this is happening because our son is adopted and we don't have a complete medical history on him -- even though there are laws that are supposed to protect adopted children re: pre-existing conditions.
So that's my question: what about people who can't get insurance?
Nothing?
Really?
I don't have health insurance for my kid.
Doesn't that make me some hugely irresponsible lay-about?
If my kid gets sick and I take him to a doctor should my family lose EVERYTHING and go into serious debt to pay for his care when we've been willing to pony up for health insurance all along?
I know I'm not alone out there.
People who think it's just soooo easy need a serious reality check.
Should insurance companies be REQUIRED to insure whoever applys?
boomerang wrote:Nothing?
Really?
I don't have health insurance for my kid.
Doesn't that make me some hugely irresponsible lay-about?
If my kid gets sick and I take him to a doctor should my family lose EVERYTHING and go into serious debt to pay for his care when we've been willing to pony up for health insurance all along?
I know I'm not alone out there.
People who think it's just soooo easy need a serious reality check.
Should insurance companies be REQUIRED to insure whoever applys?
The Profit Motive prevents that from happening, Boomerang. Which is why health care shouldn't be a for-profit industry.
The people who are so high-and-mighty about SCHIP being 'socialized medicine' don't want to discuss the realities of your situation. They only like to criticize from a safe distance.
Cycloptichorn
Here are the facts that the right-wing distorted in order to attack young Graeme:
1) Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.
2) His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.
3) They bought their "lavish house" sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.
4) Last year, the Frosts made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.
5) The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.
Sen. Clinton addresses the lunatic right's smear campaign against a 12 year-old boy who was in a coma for a week
Hillary to right-wing ideologues: Leave the 12-yr old alone.
In New Hampshire today, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) addressed the right-wing smear campaign against 12-year old Graeme Frost. "They put pictures of him on these websites. Made it seem like it was wrong that his family sought help to take care of their son after he was injured," said Clinton. "Attacking a 12-year old boy and his family because they stood up for the principle that children in the richest country in the world should not be deprived of health care? We can't let that go on."
Those of you who propagate this attack should be ashamed of yourselves! Lunatic freepers at freerepublic.co published this kid's home address encouraging one of you sick f***s to harass this child.
I think the civics lesson should wait until the participants graduate, at the least, fourth grade.
You're right. I guess they really don't want to discuss it because, like I said, I keep asking and asking and not one of them will ever respond.
It's crazy making!
Reading threads like this make me realize that people might either think I'm unfit (despite throwing privacy to the wind and having every crany of my life investigated in order to adopt) or undeserving of living in a nice house in a safe neighborhood chosen for it's schools.
I comfort myself with the knowledge that some people really, honestly don't know what it's like to be stuck in an impossible, implausable situation.
I hope they never ever have to find out what it's like.
But maybe my story will make them think twice.
So I'll continue to beat my head against the wall by asking if they have a solution for me.
Baldimo wrote:
Did you even read what I posted and the information inside of it or are you just defending what can't be defending?
You had the nerve to actually post the lies from the lunatic who posted them at freerepublic.com without revealing that the source
was a poster on freerepublic.com? Then you had the audacity to publish the child's home address? You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
