WHY CANT'T HE JUST TALK ?

Good post, mushy.

I'm going to offer a hunch that standing around in the kitchen not helping makes him feel useless, and that he is someone who really doesn't like to feel useless. But he does need to be more connected with the kids. Can you plan kid and dad nights? Can he help you by taking them to the park while you get things done? Can he help them with their homework?

DrMom- I just happened on this thread, and wanted to relate something to you. A number of years ago, someone, who knew that I was a bird lover, (of birds who are out in the wild) wangled an invite for me to a woman's home who had an aviary.

She had about a half dozen different types of parrots. She and her husband had addded on a room to their house, which was the avairy. It had windows on three sides, and was quite large. It had been outfitted with phoney trees, and all sorts of toys for the birds.

It was fascinating, but from what I had learned, took a tremendous amount of work. Every afternoon, the husband had to remove everything from the floor of the aviary, and wash the whole thing down. At night, the birds were housed in large cages in a spare room, so in effect, they took up two rooms in the house. One thing that I could say, was that the house did NOT smell like a zoo. It must have taken a lot of work to keep it that way, though.

From our discussion, I concluded that these peoples' entire lives revolved around the birds. The funny thing is, was that their house backed onto a small pond, and there were always plenty of wild birds in the area.

Some time later, I learned that the people sold all the birds, bought some slot machines, and made the aviary into a playroom.

Yes, good post, Mushy.

I got kinda stymied here:



DrMom, you really don't see the criticism there? You're saying all kinds of things between the lines, and they're pretty much all critical. They include:

- He's neglecting the kids
- He's useless in the kitchen
- He lacks insight (about what to do re: the kids and the kitchen)
- He doesn't listen to you

I could go on.

Of course he's feeling criticized...! I'm not sure what to make of the fact that you don't see that he has a reason to feel criticized.

Note, there isn't anything inherently wrong with criticizing, and I'm not saying that he does in fact spend enough time with the kids, or whatever. Just, that if you're going to criticize, there are more constructive ways to do it. This is passive-aggressive and unhelpful.

I had no idea but I am not surprised if my style does convey that, that is probably true. This is the first time in my life probably that I have expressed myself without having to worry about offending anyone. I am using this as my own journal too. I have ignored my own personal needs for about since about 1987. So I guess a lot of the above mentioned would accumulate. I am trying to reverse that. I am still amazed and appreciative of you about giving me insight about myself. Another thing that influences my style is probably learning English as a second language. People who first meet me often get that. But I bet on thousand dollars your impression would change if you knew me as well as you know some of the other members.( I am not a betting women, that is just a figure of speech I have learned it)

Just to ogive you an example I worked today, just returned home. past midnight. I worked since 0700 with excruciating toothache. Kept myself on Antibiotic and Narcotic meds to keep working. Threw up multiple times. Was nauseous and hurting all day. Felt like crying and quitting in the middle of the day. Could not do either. Rather had to deal with criticism from home as well as work. From Hubby who would yell, out of love I understand" Why can't you call in sick"(knowing for 15 years that Doctors cannot call in sick) and patients who were seen later than they expected. Of course when I explained why I am late because I have to take frequent emesis breaks they would be sympathetic but somehow I felt like explaining to only couple of them. I guess you could see some repressed anger and resentment there which is about due at this time. Anger at ignoring my personal need for many days.




I am not sure that I am contributing to his behavior, I would want to know and work on it. That is what I am doing. That is why I have paid around 500 dollars to register for The LAndmark Education. It will not change his behavior it will change mine. I feel there is some passive aggressiveness to me and I want to get rid of it myself .



You are going too deep here. If you feel Bill MAher is BullShitting? I agree with him most of the time. HE does too. So do some of my colleagues. I do not think he is bullshitting. HE is pretty real ,so are all of you? Am I not getting you here?



3/4 weekends are kids and dad nights because I work. So far I have heard" I miss the NAnny" There waws so much peace when she was around. But he is doing it. I am not sure he is loving it though. Today I promised him that this is the last of the two weekends he had the kids I would arrange help starting next weekend. HE happily agreed.

Homework, I have tried. There is some lack of patience. Usually my son ends up crying or resenting what he is doing. He tries to control his thought process even his speed of processing and My Son feels frustrated. I love doing homework with him. It is a chance to bond, to get a peak inside his brain.

My friend Who worked with him and quit, just called and explained the circumstances of her quitting. She said she has worked many jobs and never quit kike this. She felt that she was goanna have a breakdown if she did not quit because of the control and anger issues. The day she quit He criticized the way she made Tea and she said" You are pretty lucky because of my friend (ME) I am serving you Tea.I have never made tea for anyone. She says HE has no people's skills.

Phoenix. Thanks for posting this. This is exactly what is happening. HE did not anticipate how much work this is going to be. IT has been raining here for nearly 2 months. Contractors are still working putting somekind of partial fiberglass roof. When he opens the Breakfast nook window to put food and water, kids Exclaim" It smells like Poop" I keep my mouth shut. HE has been asking me to let him break a door in the wall of the breakfast nook to make it easier so he does not have to go out in the yard to enter or scoot from the window. I have not agreed yet. I made a subtle remark about making it an outside eating area nd putting birds in a separate big cage. Then I could see a door opening rom BAFF nook. HE surprisingly agreed. I said let's wait.

Soz. I am a very tactless person. That is agreed on by anyone who meets me. When I say I need your presence, The kids need your presence That is just what I am saying. If someone I loved said they needed me I would love that. I still do not see the criticism in that.( I am spoiled buy my dad who ate three meals with us. Made tea for my tire Mom at the end of the day and always was part of my homework)

How can I put it tactfully so He does not read the criticism between the lines will be appreciated? Again I can manage fine without him but I really feel We as a family and My son especially needs to see him around. I resent the feeling that when he is gone on his business trips, kids rarely ask about him and I feel I have to do much less balancing between him and the kids. (I feel my work is cut in half when he is gone vs everyone else who feels overworked when their spouses are gone)

It does sound to me that your husband is a very difficult person. It sounds as though you are doing many things to try to make the situation better, but they don't seem to be working...You are right, you can't change his behavior, but that doesn't mean that you should be a zombie and think that it is your type of reaction to bad behavior that will remedy the discord.

After all is said and done,
I think of what Ann Landers used to say, "Would your life be better with him or without him?"

It seems to me that you really love him but that he is causing you much turmoil.

CArson, Your Empathy could not have come at a better time. Today after a long time I thought of giving up. I cried with my kids and requested their help. I do not know what kind of impact it will have on them in the long run but i could not help it today. I have no other family. my parents are so sad with their grief that I cannot share anything with them. Could not have many friends because of my career.

I did feel helpless and his behavior sounded very selfish today. I did mention about my tooth problem. A dentist agreed to see me as an urgent appointment at 2 pm. At noon I went to my kids school and was told my daughter did not eat anything because she is waiting for Mommy. So I picked her up at 1345 instead of sending her to extended day from where I pick up both of them at 1500. I called him that I do not have time so I am going to the dentist. He was at home. Working on the aviary with the contractor. At the dentist office a root canal was suggested. One hour procedure. I thought my daughter would be uncomfortable and it is not polite to have a toddler in the room while having a root canal. CAlled him that please pick her up. Dentist office was a 10 min drive. HE said he cannot because he is working on the aviary and is not dressed. IT was 1445 I reminded him that he had promised me he would pick up my Son who gets released at 1500. Said " Oh I forgot let me send one of my Employees to pick him up. If I would not have reminded him He would not remember something we discussed an hour ago. I again requested that he come to pick up my daughter because it is along procedure and I feel awkward. HE refused. I came home at 1630 . I was half numb. My help decided not to show up I started working on the house. I did not feel like talking to him. When HE asked I said I am upset because I did not get any help from him. Replied" you should have scheduled it better.
" This is so ruthless. How can I schedule a dental emergency. Again HE was soo tired after working on the aviary that he just needed to rest. Dinner , homework, baths, messy house was mine. Actually refused to drink tea because it was late today. I just don't get it.

Right now he is not the person I loved. HE was not like that. Is he going through a midlife crisis? What is a midlife crisis from people that have experience with it. I so came to the forum today to close it because everyone seems to be blaming things on me when I know how hard I am trying. Carson's response made me spill my guts again.

Well, the resentment you feel certainly seems well founded. I'm sorry for your situation, DrMom, but plain and simple he's not giving you (or your kids) what you need. As much as you feel that fighting him on these issues is making it your problem, it is already your problem. You sound like you're at the breaking point. He needs to know that.

Just talk
I had a friend who was married to a very attractive and well known musician and songwriter. She loved him so much, but for years I saw he treated her disrespectfully and like his maid. They went to couples therapy and what she got out of it was that she needed to learn how to "talk" to her husband. So that is why I responded to your post because i had heard that before.

I am sorry to say that they are now divorced. As a friend I really didn't want to butt into her business during the whole time this was going on.

But as a member of this forum I can suggest that you deserve better, that maybe there is someone out there who will treat you with more kindness and respect than is being shown to you now. And you will never meet that person if you are with your husband. This business with the dentist sounds utterly demeaning. And if you give it some more time maybe he will come around, but please don't waste too much time. If there is a couples counselor you can talk to, please do that, with or without him.

Please let us know.

Free Duck, I have been at breaking points before. I have had two nervouis breakdowns, during stress ful times( like post partum) His attitude has only changed when I was in the hospital. HE used to cry a lot. Thenm said I got you back now I am going to change.
IF i say I am at breaking point, he will see it as utter rejection andwill respond, Yes Leave me. You are leaving me. I can take care of the kids. I do not want to go that route. This could have happened before I had kids. Not now. What is an unhappy women, How many women are truly happy? I cannot risk two beautiful, Out of the world Children. That is why I said earlier divorce or separation is out of my Dictionary.

I am tinking of hiring someone again who could live in the upstairs suite and could help me when I work. This way he is free to do whatever he wants to do and I know someone dependable is with the kids when I work.
And could help out with errands and things taht generally husbands would do. What do you guys think?

Two beautiful children deserve a happy mother and an involved father who treats their mother with respect and love. Many women ARE happy, or at least, happier than this. I'm not saying leave him, but you have to change something here. And I don't think hiring someone else will help.

Yeah, me either.

I think you're seeking to sweep things under a rug rather than actually fix problems. And the sweeping thing just never works. You're resentful, he's mad that you're resentful (note: nothing specific has to be actually said for this exchange to happen), and as the mutual resentment builds your lives get more and more miserable.

Maybe the problems can be fixed, maybe not, but there are problems that IMO need to be faced head-on.

I don't remember what the reaction to counseling was, when I brought it up before..? That's really what I'd recommend.

I did talk to him. Face to face. I all of a sudden took over as a physician dealing with a difficult patient. His reaction immediately changed. Bottom line end of one hour dialogue, he acted like a different person the whole day. Says I did not communicate the urgency and need, clearly with the Dentist situation.

Here is the problem. IF anyone has seen the movie " Elizabeth" They will know what I am talking about. Although I have been Evolved
into a strong independent women physician, inside of me is the girl wanting a prince on the white horse. I do not feel good taking over like this. For some reason I do not want to have to communicate "to him"like I am dealing with a difficult patient. It makes me lose my sense of feminity and sexuality. Going to bed will seem like I am with a difficult patient rather than my husband. Funny I said that, being a Gemini , I should be able to have Multiple personalities !!!!

That doesn't sound like "taking over," to me. It sounds like finally putting away your more usual muddled, passive-aggressive means of communication with your husband and finally communicating something clearly. Good job!

This morning as they were all heading out , he said today will be the first day of his new life , something like that. I will keep you guys posted. This really helped. I thinlk I will still go to Landmark education forum. But the emphasis will be , May be COmmunication or finding out about myself.

Thanks for everyone who helped me, Soz, Free Duck, Eva, Mismi, Tiny Giraffe, Osso, You too Mushy pancakes

That sounds really promising, DrMom. Keep up the communication -- it seems to help a lot. I do kind of understand what you're saying about needing the knight on the white horse, but the truth is that no man can give you that. Those men don't really exist that can read your mind and anticipate your needs. There might be more empathetic men out there, or more sensitive men, but you already knew your husband wasn't one of those. And since separation is not an option for you, you'll have to figure out how to live with the one you have, which means doing what you did and telling him exactly what you need. Good job! I hope you feel relieved.

Right on. Sounds promising, indeed!

I actually relate to what you are saying. Finally coming out and saying directly, it feels "weird" at first.

As you reap more and more benefits from doing it, though, it'll get more and more natural. Perspectives change. Even the old white horse one. heh. (Though in my case, the problem seemed more of me wanting to come and plow down my guy on my own white horse. heh)

Good luck and keep us posted.

It feels good to start to regain control, though,doesn't it? Power! ahh. lol.

It can be quite liberating when you realize that you are the knight on the white horse yourself.

Good for you, DrMom!

Doesn't that make you question the good old marriage? What do we need from our realtionships ?

Love, respect, closeness, friendship, someone to be there when you need them, someone to be there for when they need you, someone to share your ups and downs with, someone to help you raise your children.

I think it's reasonable to expect your husband to be there for you when you need him, but not reasonable to expect him to intuitively know when that is. It doesn't mean you don't need him, it means you'll have to tell him when you need him.

..and what you need him for, exactly.