WHY CANT'T HE JUST TALK ?

You guys would never know how helpful these responses are.

Soz Do you really want to know about the AVIARY. It is a sore spot but since you asked !!!!

He has loved birds since childhood. Got into trouble for not paying enough attention to studies for his love of birds. Couldn't pursue it for many years. Luckily for him a beam in our Lanai started leaking. When contractors came to fix it, he talked them into making another screened in patio outside the breakfast area that would serve as aviary. I mean it is really walled off by the glass of breakfast area so their excreta has potential of hitting the windows. Now before even the start date of project he started collecting potential residents of aviary. The number too soon got to where I could not keep count. They were placed in existing lanai which was being repaired. The Smell, the feces and their inability to really be in a natural environment was all supposed to be temporary. Now of course the contractors were behind. The birds suffered deafening noise of construction. Now the so called aviary is made. He claims many people in the world have these and it is his Escape( from ? ) Showed me a website where a guy specializes in designing these. the floor is concrete. because otherwise city won't approve it. Now that bothers me. The birds are already released into the aviary. He had promised me the floor would have grass so their fecal material could actually act as fertilizer. Now he wants to wait until Inspector inspects it and passes the whole thing. Then he wants to try grass on a patch and see if the birds won't eat it all. We don't know if the grass can be planted on concrete. The contractor was called to poke holes in concrete so sprinklers for future grass bed can be placed.

It actually is a very unique thing part of it is walled off by My son's bedroom Window. When he reads on his bed he can see the birds flying.
Neighbours/ Visitors are mesmerized because this is so beautiful. I have these concerns and my atttemps at bringing these up are faced with You know what.

1. Why did we not plan so that aviary could be completed before birds were collected. I think noise of construction must have caused permanent hearing loss in them. ( I am a nitpick who is always planning but not executing is the answer Vs Executing before planning which he excels in doing)
2. Is this the need for Control ( that cannot be exerted on wife) to keep these creatures in captivity and enjoy them when we actually get humming birds and cardinals in the backyard. ( Of course I am so far from nature that I do not know these are two different things, is the response)
3.What if this experiment fails? ( Oh the Pessimism)
4. What if they poop on windows. ( They can't aim and shoot)
5. When we have 60-90 min of time as a family/dayhy are birds getting more attention then your own off spring. ( You just hate these poor creatures don't you)
6.When you have trouble getting water for yourself ( House keeper who is about to leave is often called ) Who would feed and clean after them.?( They don't need anything, I will just put food and water every day, Don't worry you won' be bothered)

Ok enough venting.

We have Cockateals, golden finches, canaries, doves, quails. I am sure there are more than I can commit to memory. The space is about the size of a big bedroom. They are already breeding I do not know what is the plan for their Off spring ( I am too busy thinking about mine) He actually does enjoy them a lot. The evening tea which was a daily ritual is now taken into the aviary and I am invited. When I go I can't ignore what is on the concrete floor. So It usually falls short of an escape for him. Can't wait for the inspector to pass the whole thing so we can try grass or something.

If you are interested even after reading all this then I can get the website from him for you Soz.

I will respond to the other posts too ( couldn't let go of this opportunity to vent Re; Aviary since Sozobe asked) Mismi, So good to hear from you. You are so much like me. Whenever you write I feel This is how I would have said it , had I studied Liberal arts and literature. Have you tried free lancing.

Eva you are such a wonderful person I read your profile and tries to send you a PM but I donot have previliges, so I will start a new post may be.

Well if it's a sore spot, that's something else entirely! (I enjoyed reading more about it, though.)

I know you haven't replied to everything yet, but again I ask whether there are subjects that aren't sore spots and are also interesting for you.

No, I had to think qabout it for a while. At times I did not want to be completely honest and wanted to say yes, but the truth of the matter is we do not share any interests other than our marriage , children, and respect and commitment to our relationship.
HE truly loves me. He says he has loved me before he knew me. After years of doubting him I now believe he is right.

We got married when we were both in school. How? would be another thread someday and would be quite interesting for you guys to read.

To make a long story short, we have faced many crisis like situations, loss of jobs, moves, illnesses, uncertainities, financial difficulties and we supported each other and emerged stronger after each one. Now that we are both in our careeres. No schools, no boards, no moves( at least planned ones) It seems like now we have time to even think about interests. We really have no shared interests. I can find girlfriends, A2K serves that purpose. But I am afraid of getting emotionally distant from him. Actually I feel I already am. I do not think he worries about it. That bothers me. He appreciates all that I do in terms of running a household, kids and all. HE wants me to enjoy the sports and action movies and HIS BIRDS. HE also does gardening. His style is so different that I leave him alone with his garden.

My interests are reading, cooking, int. decorating and parenting. Can't get him to sit down long enough to read.

I wonder what I can do to enrich the relationship and not get further distsant. It seems like too much work to get interested in sports and action movies?

For all of those who asked waht I wanted to talk about when I invited him on a lunch date. Well you just read it. That was main course. For dessert I wanted to add that I am feeling lonely , ignored and neglected.

That event ended in me storming out to the Ladies room. Him trying to chase me before I could enter. Some of the coleagues who witnessed the event remarked " Was that Nice looking gentleman (who was running after you)Your husband?

communication is difficult among women (no matter how you excel at it,) it's difficult among men, and between men and women (or any other two groups) even more so.

think of communication as an effort you move towards every day, that's really what it is. you may get part way there and that will help next time. think of it as something with countless barriers in the way. each time you remove one, you get closer to being perfectly understood. sometimes you get a glimpse of it.

all kinds of things can get in the way of communication. having interests in common is one way to break through them, it's an opportunity for two people to practice knowing what the other person means. but any time there's fear, discomfort, or simply a lack of personal experience, there's an extra potentional for misunderstanding.

oddly enough, the better you become aware of who you are and what you do, and how you live your life in each situatioin, the better you can communicate with people. i'm no master of this, personally. but i do find that when i pay very close attention to my own actions, the actions of other people- the things that keep them from talking on common ground become easier to see.

i think if you watch yourself, learn more about yourself, you'll better see those obstacles so you can remove them, both the ones he puts there without knowing, and the ones you put up without knowing as well. whether this will help in a week, a month, or a year, i don't know. it could help a little more every day. i hope it does.

I am listening, Dr. Mom, with an intent of a kind of being you and understanding you. And getting over me, with my own set of opinions.



I'll say a few things.

First, why I shut up fairly early - I am quite a bit older than you are.. I was very interested in med school in 1962 in the USA and got the book, probably put out by MCAT, but perhaps some other publishing firm. Anyway, they covered the med schools in the US and adjacent places. Burned in my memory is that the women admitted to schools were 0 - 2 out of, say, an average of 90 to 100 admitted, over most of the pages, with the odd 6 (was that Harvard?). Incredibly dismal average, nearing zero. I worked my way, 30 to 40 hrs a week, through the university years and didn't have top grades. Plus, I guess I'm not that smart. Some very smart women made it, and some very smart women who had senior meds in their family made it.

A few years after that, re legal efforts, law and med schools opened up to women, late for me, re circumstances.

To have a woman treat being an md as ordinary makes me catch my breath. To be able to get into the school, to be able to begin to afford it. To read you'd just toss that to stay home - for what, ten years? - explains some of our difference.

The key reason for women not being let into med school in 1960 was that they would just get pregnant and drop the education - this was routinely verbalized. Med school admissions offices pick people for potential for practice, even now.

Okay, there's my background. I can see someone making it through, now, and regretting the effort or wanting to explore elsewhere. I can't personally see doing it because your father wanted you to and then not dropping it, keeping going because that is the way it is. Well, I can, but it aggravates me. What do YOU want to study? You are the person.

I think you have barely begun to listen to your own interests.
That doesn't mean I think you should divorce. Just stop being princess yes, and listen to what you think.

I have found that many women who say "lets talk' really means I want to talk and I want you to listen.

The mistake many men make is to offer solutions.

Yeah, the storming out bit with him following behind is classic.

Nowadays, if I stormed out on my bf, he'd just wave smiling. I dropped a lot of that with my another bf. The "know what I am thinking and feeling" thing.

It's a two way street. Trick is, you can only do anything about your own end.

Can't make him talk, be interested, or do anything really. Only encourage him and entice him, and tell him how you really feel up front and without drama.

If you love each other as you say you do, there will be nothing but good that can come from spending more time getting to know you - away from all that - what you think, feel, want independently. Because when you do that, you bring that into the relationship too.
And that tends to be exciting. Breaks new ice. Gives you things to talk about.

And. Doing that also helps in learning to communicate generally better overall.

I related to giraffe's post a lot. Feel on that page.

DrMom, if this is something that you want to try to fix, I do think that putting the work into becoming more interested in one of his interests is worth it. (How much work would it be to divorce?) It can't really go the other way 'round -- you can't demand that he be interested in something that interests you.

And I think that if there is some basis, some reason for you guys to be just talking in a companionable way, that things can expand from there.

This can be at the same time as you becoming a bit more self-sufficient, figuring out more of who you really are and what you really like. A2K is a nice start, but I'd recommend real-world contacts for that kind of thing, too. Just generally going towards being more settled and centered as a person.

(Just read mushypancakes' post and she says a lot of the same things, oops... will click "submit" anyway.)

Thanks everyone again, If I do not quote anyone that does not mean I do not appreciate it. I In this day and age any one finding a moment to really think about anyone else's problem and to try to help is saintly. I do not expect that from friends and family members because I feel there is always a vested interest. I believe that to have a "vested interest" can ruin a relationship.
So everyone suggests I get to know myself, that is a relief, because that is what I am doing these days. Soz, what do you mean by Real world contacts, You guys seem pretty real to me. Actually some of the real world people don't seem that real because we have to make ourselves appear a certain way to portray who we are in the real world. If you know what I mean.

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Thanks Osso for making me think how to reply to you and for making me almost cry after a long time.

I think there is a difference in the Education system here and where I come from. I can relate to the pros and cons of both, I come from one and my kids (who are now dearer than myself )are in another.

Where I come from you can enter med school (six year track) without a college degree after 12the grade, that means for me at 14 it had to be decided. You learn mostly about your profession in the next 6 years so at 21 or 22 ( for me it was 20.5) you are a professional ready to experience life, you get some real life experiences while going through that intense training but that is very different from what kids do here.

I just took care of a college kid with a undiagnosed illness. He managed to keep the whole medical team awake at night because he was pretty sick and we had no idea why. While still in the IC his girlfriend was found in his IC bed while DAD was at the bedside. I almost threw a fit and declared " My son is not going to college" My colleagues laughed and said " You might want to reconsider if he is going to stay in this country" they basically told me that that's what college is for to just experience life, to see other people, to discover who you are.

I just used this example to show the contrast. I do not think I would ever have made it to med school here in US. I think I am pretty good at what I do. That is not because of my interest in Biology or Pathology but because I care for these people and what is happening in their lives. Even If I did not cram any medical facts they can be looked up as long as I have an interest. My compassion always helps my judgement. I got a scholarship to go to med school. So my Poor Government paid for all of my education and added some pocket money too. The scores that got me the scholarship were not just sciences. It was a combined score. Which means I could have gotten a passing score in sciences and I might have topped the state in Literature and Languages. You could argue both ways. But I think They select capable people and help them get a reasonable chance at success by taking the load of " How to pay? " off their shoulders. I feel I need to pay it back someday. What I see here hurts, me. My colleagues who waited tables to go through college to go to MEd school have atleast 150,00 if not more in Loans. After finishing residency, fellowships they are still working just to pay those off, so they could finally start " Living the dream". What happens to your compassion, relationships, spirit, is very interesting. I have seen the best of people change. It is a business like anything else so only "Smart businessmen with strong business sense would survive" I would not survive in a system like that for too long.
I was the last one leaving the hospital. My kids were showing signs of neglect. My husband was suffering neglect too. Being a perfectionist does come with a price tag. My parents saw my personality change while my Poor Husband thought it is just that I do not love him back.

This is the first time since tenth grade that I have a chance to know who I am. I did not give up my career. It had become a necessity that I rediscover myself or I won't be any good for anyone. I still work 60 %. I had to stop working Fulltime because of my two kids and my husband. I plan on getting more training at some point. I was the Chief resident and was involved in teaching and the quest for knowledge is there. What I was doing was becoming brainless. Right now my kids and husband need me. He is someone who needs a lot of support in everything that he does. If I am at home base I can atleast cheer.

I could easily let it go the other way and it would lead to separation or Divorce. NO. I know from your posts Osso that you do not have kids. I wish I could truly express. I gave them birth once. They give me life everyday. When they lay in bed with me one on each hand I feel I have the world in my hands. Only "Mindfulness" I experience is with them every day. Even if they spend five minutes running around and playing horsey with Dad, It is worth all my sacrifice. I love my husband for giving them and me the unconditional love. So what if he can't talk, do dishes, groceries, understand poetry and share the same political and religious beliefs. I love him for who he is, "Mine". I think I will learn to communicate with him one day. With all the help I am getting from experts.

BTW Osso I will have to look really hard to find a person who is truly happy being in Medicine. You think you were not smart enough, WRONG. I think all of the ones who got in were not smart enough. May be I am projecting my own feelings but I am being honest. I was the strongest opponent of teaching Doctors "How to run a business" in residency. My Director would look at me empathetically and say, "They need it" Do you think you would have been a good business woman?

Ok one correction,( I am so bad with numbers) When I said, I graduated at at20.5 , That is when I got engaged to be married. Graduated at 23, most people graduate 24-25. What I am trying to say by this long winded thought is that I am doing it in a reverse fashion. After getting professional education, married and children , now trying to explore myself.

Wow, I am almost tempted to say I'm glad to learn about someone else whose husband can't/won't/doesn't talk, but that would not be very nice of me for my very first post!

I can relate quite a bit to what you're saying, but in a way it also frightens me. I've been married almost 6 years (no kids yet unfortunately), but I sometimes feel like it's been much, much longer.

I'm going to go back and re-read a lot of the (excellent!) advice I've seen here already.

Good luck with your husband!

Welcome to A2k Jessi,

It is god to hear from you. It sure is a relief to know we are not the only ones. Almost every happily married woman is saying the same thing. So I think we need to learn more about communication. To Commune literally mean to connect deeply. From what I understand so far from all these posts, We use words while most men may not see the use of words as important. We all know some of the ways that they feel loved :wink: (? how do you actually put that smiley )

Soz, your response is so interesting. As much as I have read your posts , you sound such a independent progressive strong women who does not believe in Gender roles, Imposing relifgion on kids and who talks about shared responsibility i nraising kids and househod. So when you say , I should be the one trying to develope interest in his hobbies because it won't happen the other way around, that is somewhat contradictory but again , maybe you are trying to advise me as if you were me.

I will try to be more involved with his interests but I can't promise I will push myself. Done with that !!!

One of the limiting factors is that, when he is out gardening, or in the aviary, guess who is doing homework with the kids, planning menus or brainstorming ways that they don't think about watching TV. We can try doing it as a family. Here is the issue, with kids especially with My Montessori kids you have to give up your inner control. LEt them do it. Don't correct. Don't take over LEt them do it again, only advise when they ask. Him " No , No Not this way, What are you doing? Let me just do it, You can't do it yet. Stop that, you will ruin it. " Pretty soon two muddy little ones running back " Daddy is not letting us help"

My main point is just that you can only control so many things.

If YOU want to do something to improve the marriage, that is something YOU can do.

I don't see it as a permanent state of affairs but a first step. It sounds like you guys simply don't have a pattern of talking to each other in a non-confrontational, companionable way. If you have an opening -- things you know he'd enjoy talking about -- that can be a way to get into different, happier patterns.

I'm not at all saying that it WON'T happen the other way around, I'm saying you can't FORCE it to happen the other way around. Saying "[Husband], I'm tired of never talking about stuff I'm interested in, so I have assigned you to read this book, and in one week we will talk about it and you will enjoy it" is simply not going to work.

This is gonnna be hurtfull.

Drmom if you shut up for 5 minutes and gave your husband time to reply he might just open up.

For some unknown reason your post give me the impression of the stereotypical female chatterbox. Just shut it for a while. I can guarentee if your husband has something worthwhile to say he'll say it, that is if he can get a word in edgewise.

Be great full that your husband is the practical man he is and stop trying to change him into something he's not. Be part of the team not the CEO.

Yeah yeah I know I cant tell anything from a couple of posts on the internet.

Oh and by the way that outfit you are wearing make your bum look big.

Dadpad nailed it here.

What women don't realize is that men are hardwired problem solvers. Any problem defined MUST have a solution offered. Women share their problems with other women and receive commiseration, which is all they want.

Woman: Oh, what a day with that boss of mine. Blah blah blah!!
Man: Well, tomorrow morning you blah blah and blah.
Woman: Don't tell me what to do.
Man: Then why did you tell me about it?
Woman: You're not listening.

Joe(If I don't hear the words "What should I do?" I just nod and murmur.)Nation

shiny happy people holding hands...
proof that women really don't know everything

although i prefer to think of it as two groups working together to overcome distances in understanding, rather than competing to see who understands better all the time

I'd say her comments are more pragmatic than contradictory.

The old saying is "If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad will go to the mountain."

If your husband is the mountain...

In my own terms, I prefer to look at it from the "Who's problem is it?" perspective. From what you've written your husband doesn't seem to have an issue with the status quo. You appear to be the one with the "problem" with things as things are so it becomes incumbant on you to take the action to resolve it. :wink:

What I have figured out is that it is that both of us have Controlling-taking personalities. versus some other couples where one spouse is controlling other is more caring-giving. ( My own mom and dad)

Since I realize I am trying to give up that control atleast with him and with kids. It is helping some. But it is hard to completely alter your personality for a long time. So it springs up every now and then.

It was not like that at all earlier when he actually had a job. HE started his own consultancy (small business) Has been super busy and super frustrated. Almost non existent for me and kids. That is one of the reasons I gave up my fulltime career. Someone has to be Home. Most of his administrative assistants end up leaving because of the same issues that I can relate too. I just finished putting an ad for a new one. This would be Fourth in less than 2 years. Last one was one of my friends who was really doing him a favor. HEr MAin complaint " He micro manages, and controls too much. She claimed she was on antianxiety pills the week before she left. I am not taking anyones side but this is becoming a pattern where his communication is suffering a lot. One day he asked " Now that you are home, can you please be the administrator for the office and deal with Employees. I think I don't have the patience."
Now that is the last thing I will do. It will further complicate out relationship. But I am willing to improve things at home so he has no worries at that end.

DadPad, It did not hurt. If I come across as a chatterbox that is a relief. Believe me that was part of my personality that I was losing. I had a rough time for two years( Illness, deaths and such) My colleagues love it. They say it is such a relief that you are smiling and talking again.
Dream On about the outfit and more.........

Tiny Giraffe your advice is deep and very meaningful, Thanks. I think about it often. I will start quoting examples so you could be more specific.

Dr Mom hi,

I have a lanai, it's on the Big Island of Hawaii. Where is yours?

I think perhaps to understand a man one should start with a course in anthropology and work your way up.

What they did in the trees is what they want to do on the ground "Not Much" , let alone talk about it. Authors write books about it, make a few dollars, and it still has not solved the problem You can bat your baby blues all day long and vent and all you are going to get is a "what the ---- are you talking about.

The bottom line is "You make your choices and take your chances"

Sglass

Right in the back of my beautiful home. Why?