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You are a "Nigger" and I am a "Cracker"

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 10:00 am
Do you actually have anything to say on topic, or did you just come here to rant?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 10:02 am
Since I got drawn in to this thread against my will, I might as well post.

I think pstewarts post is dead nuts on topic. Kudos.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 10:11 am
I'll agree on the "dead nuts" portion....

Where in the thread has it been discussed about "this nation is now going to judge and punish MOTIVES? THOUGHTS? BELIEFS?"



(And, actually, motive is what differentiates manslaughter from murder, so I guess we do that already.)
0 Replies
 
pstewart
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 10:48 am
Drewdad, of course my post was on topic. How limited is any topic, anyway? I keep trying to point out that folks are overreacting to mere words, when it's actions that matter. I gave some examples of actions that have far worse consequences than words can.

Words can upset folks, but lots of worse things upset folks. We can't expect to live in a society where no one ever upsets anyone else... such a society is impossible since it's made up of human beings with different experiences and different emotional issues. Yes, we SHOULD be polite and kind to one another and refrain from upsetting anyone if we can, but to expect everyone to do this all the time in every case is asking for humans to be perfect. Before judging anyone's failings we have to consider that we ALL do things that upset one another, either intentionally or accidentally.

In fact, I think some of the replies I read have no purpose other than to express their disagreement in an emotional, not academic, way, by implying there must be something wrong with the poster. That certainly can be taken as offensive. A lot of rudeness on discussion sites such as this occurs because readers can NOT stick to the topic and must inject personal judgements against the poster rather than objectively consider the content of their posts. These folks are letting their emotions cloud their judgement of what is actually being said. I am speaking in general, of course, having participated in several discussion sites over the years.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 12:07 pm
pstewart wrote:

I think people make WAY too much of words and not enough of substance. Actions matter. But words without action? No. I recall my mom telling me the old saw, "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me." This is true. Unless you LET the words cause you pain. Don't give power to a word. Don't give power to anyONE let alone anyTHING!


Too simplistic. Words are extremely important, esp on a chat board where that's basically all there is.

You call someone fat or stupid or retarded or the n-word... you think that doesn't affect them?

All Edgarblythe and others of us were saying is that we don't need to be reminded of the ugliness associated with those words... you might need to be, but we don't, and he was expressing his opinion to the poster who included said words in the TITLE of the thread, as he has a right to do.

You don't need to come along and say he and the rest of us are over-reacting emotionally, thank you very much. We can have a rational opinion even though it differs markedly from yous.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 12:21 pm
I'm black and gay. Does that make me a bad cracker?
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Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 01:00 pm
Amigo wrote:
"Cracker" and the other reference are not the same thing. There were never gangs of black men and law officers hanging "Crackers" in America less then 100 years ago at will.

Nor would it stand that 57,700 "crackers" be purged from their votes in 2000 presidetial election as it happened to black citizens in florida in 2000.

THAT is the difference between "cracker" and the other.

When a gang of Black men hang a "cracker" and get of by an all black jury THEN "cracker" might start to mean something.

On the flip side I think Zippo might mean he feels the way the white man in this song feels by a legendary D.C. punk band;

---------------------------------------------

MINOR THREAT LYRICS

"Guilty Of Being White"

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

I'm a convict
GUILTY
Of a racist crime
GUILTY
I've only served
GUILTY
19 years of my time

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

-------------------------

this band was mentored by an all black punk band.


Hey!, immediately after posting this thread in the wrong forum (politics), It was moved here. I thought it had gotten deleted. I've just skimmed through some posts (will be soon reading them all). I think Amigo had nailed it. I'm getting tired of nigreos calling me cracker all the time Sad , especially as i am not personally responsible for our ancestors' slavery. The 'N' word however is mainly used by nazis supremacist, and i'm sure they're also getting tired of nazis using the 'N' word. Amigo is also right in saying that 'Cracker' is no way near as insulting as the word 'Nigger', however, both words are only effective when used in certain environments/situations. Additionally, i would like to compliment the forum administrator for not censoring these words/thread. Smile

(will post after reading all the posts)
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 05:27 pm
According to this site, the term 'cracker' wasn't used for slave owners at all.
~~~~~
Dear AC,

Being from Australia I often hear the term "cracker" used by black American comedians, in reference to white people. Can you tell me what is the meaning and where did the term originate.

Many thanks,

Dear Michael,

There must be something in the air. Yours is the second letter I've gotten recently on the subject of racial insults. Back in the 1700s, cracker was a derogatory term used by American whites to describe poor Southerners of their own race. Since then, its meaning has become more generalized and it is often used by blacks to describe whites, especially racist whites. However, the word still retains the flavor of Southern poverty.

http://www.slangcity.com/ask_ac_archive/cracker.htm

~~~~

And this one:

Dear Word Detective: Can you tell me the origin of the word "cracker"? Someone told me that it dated back to the slave days, when slave owners were called "crackers" because they cracked a whip on slaves. Is this true? -- Cygerr, via the internet.

Probably not, although that is one oft-heard theory among many. But before we proceed any further, we'd better back up a bit and explain (especially for our overseas readers) that "cracker" is a derogatory slang term usually used to mean a poor white person resident in the Southern U.S., especially in the state of Georgia, which is sometimes referred to as "the Cracker State." More than simply a regional slur, "cracker" carries the implication that the person is a racist, and is sometimes applied to any white person perceived as harboring racist sentiments, regardless of class or geographic particulars.

There are theories tracing "cracker" to the crack of a slavemaster's whip, or to "corncracker" (slang for country folk, who presumably ate a lot of corn). But the actual source is almost certainly the much older slang sense of "to crack" meaning "to boast or brag," first seen around 1460, and its derivative "cracker," meaning "braggart," which appeared around 1509. The earliest use of "cracker" used in the "poor white" sense discovered so far bears out the connection. In a letter written to the Earl of Dartmouth in 1766, an observer named Gavin Cochrane, referring to bands of outlaws operating at that time in the Southern U.S., noted: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."

Evidently these outlaws were so successful that their exploits, along with their bragging habits, became legendary throughout the eastern United States. By the early 19th century, "cracker" had become a term applied to poor Southern whites in general.

http://www.word-detective.com/100699.html

~~~~

And, of course, there's Wikpedia:

Cracker (pejorative)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Contents [hide]
1 Usage
2 Etymology
3 Examples of usage
3.1 Popular culture
3.2 Politics
4 References
5 See also
6 External links
7 Footnotes


For other uses, see Cracker.
"Cracker", sometimes "white cracker", is a usually pejorative term for a white person, mainly used in the Southern United States, but in recent decades it has entered common usage throughout North America.

[edit] Usage
Usage of the term "cracker" generally differs from "hick" and "hillbilly" because crackers reject or resist assimilation into the dominant culture, while hicks and hillbillies theoretically are isolated from the dominant culture. In this way, cracker culture is similar to redneck culture.

"Cracker" has also been used as a proud or jocular self-description. With the huge influx of new residents from the North, "cracker" is now used informally by some white residents of Florida and Georgia ("Florida cracker" or "Georgia cracker") to indicate that their family has lived there for many generations. However, the term "white cracker" is not always used self-referentially and remains a racist term to many in the region.[1]


[edit] Etymology
There are various theories concerning the origin of the term "cracker".

The term "cracker" was in use during Elizabethan times to describe braggarts. The original root of this is the Middle English word crack1 meaning "entertaining conversation" (One may be said to "crack" a joke); this term and the alternate spelling "craic" are still in use in Ireland and Scotland. It is documented in Shakespeare's King John (1595): "What cracker is this ... that deafes our ears / With this abundance of superfluous breath?"

By the 1760s, this term was in use by the English in the British North American colonies to refer to Scots-Irish settlers in the south. A letter to the Earl of Dartmouth reads: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode". A similar usage was that of Charles Darwin in The Origin of Species, to refer to "Virginia squatters" (illegal settlers) (p. 35).

Spaniards in Florida called them "Quáqueros," a corruption of the English word "Quaker," which the Spanish used to contemptuously refer to any protestant. [2]

Other possible origins of the term "cracker" are linked to early Florida cattle herders (Florida crackers) that traditionally used whips to herd wild Spanish cattle. These cowboys were distinct from the Spanish vaqueros of Florida. The crack of the herders' whips could be heard for great distances when they were used to round cattle in pens and to keep the cows on a given track. Also, "cracker" has historically been used to refer to those engaged in the low paying job of cracking pecans and other nuts in Georgia and throughout the southeast U.S.

One theory claims that the term dates back to slavery in the antebellum South. The popular folk etymology is based on slaver foremen using bullwhips to discipline African slaves, and the sound the whip being described as 'cracking the whip'. The foremen who cracked these whips were thus known as 'crackers'. [1][2][3]

According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, "cracker" is a term of contempt for the "poor" or "mean whites," particularly of Georgia and Florida. Britannica notes that the term dates back to the American Revolution, and is derived from the "cracked corn" which formed their staple food. (Note that in British English "mean" is a term for poverty, not malice.) [3]

Historically the word suggested poor, white rural Americans with little formal education. Historians point out the term originally referred to the strong Scots-Irish of the backcountry (as opposed to the English of the seacoast). Thus a sociologist reported in 1926: "As the plantations expanded these freed men (formerly bond servants) were pushed further and further back upon the more and more sterile soil. They became 'pinelanders', 'corn-crackers', or 'crackers'." [Kephard Highlanders]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 05:31 pm
No one ever called me a cracker - they call me Kraut Laughing
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 05:43 pm
I get called Canuck and Canajun Smile
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sweettart
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 05:54 pm
They call me "Madame."







Just kidding. I do not want anyone to come to my house looking for my address book.
0 Replies
 
pstewart
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:02 pm
Mame wrote:
pstewart wrote:
"Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me." This is true. Unless you LET the words cause you pain. Don't give power to a word. Don't give power to anyONE let alone anyTHING!


Too simplistic. Words are extremely important, esp on a chat board where that's basically all there is.

You call someone fat or stupid or retarded or the n-word... you think that doesn't affect them?

You don't need to come along and say he and the rest of us are over-reacting emotionally, thank you very much. We can have a rational opinion even though it differs markedly from yous.


First, it's not simplistic at all. What is simplistic is not seeing beyond the actual word to how and why it is used in context and in history. If someone insults you, it doesn't matter WHAT words they use, you should feel insulted. Likewise, if someone uses a word for a purpose OTHER than insulting someone, as in discussing the origin and current fuss over that word or others, it should be understood that the word is NOT meant to insult anyone in this context.

Second, of course folks are adversely affected and justifiably get angry when called derogatory names. No one is suggesting it's a good thing to upset people on purpose, but that is, sadly, part of human nature. People say mean things for many reasons which a panel of psychiatrists may not even comprehend, but at least they are only verbal insults. It's when their anger and hatred come out as violent acts that we need to worry. It's everyone's responsibility to curb their violent impulses (and yes, all humans have them) and not ACT on hatred. If saying mean words can be a substitute for violent acts, I'm glad they found a way to let off steam harmlessly.

That doesn't mean I approve of folks who insult others in ANY way. But it's a fact of human nature that folks will clash and get nasty. Just look at our congress if you need examples! All the non-productive name calling that goes on there is not only disgusting but makes real progress on national problems even harder to achieve.

Just because someone is upset that doesn't mean they can't act rationally. It's when they let their emotions take charge of good sense that we have problems. We are each responsible for what we say and do. We can't get away with saying, "He upset me so much with his insults that I just had to stab him." The problem isn't with the words... it's with the actions that might follow from an irresponsible person. But the blame is NOT with the words... it's with the inability of the violent responder to manage his own feelings, making him a very dangerous person.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:37 pm
The point is, your words offended someone and you're not taking responsibility for that (that I've seen, anyway, not going to re-read all these pages)... violent behaviour aside, why not just acknowledge the person's feelings instead of justifying yours?
0 Replies
 
jenniejen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:52 pm
If someone calls me a cracker, I don't give a doo doo, cause I just say their a toasted cracker.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:52 pm
CalamityJane wrote:
No one ever called me a cracker - they call me Kraut Laughing


I like my Kraut hot.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:54 pm
Mame wrote:
The point is, your words offended someone and you're not taking responsibility for that (that I've seen, anyway, not going to re-read all these pages)... violent behaviour aside, why not just acknowledge the person's feelings instead of justifying yours?


pstewart offended and the thread title didn't?

I don't like double standards.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:57 pm
Yes, the thread title did offend, that's what I'm talking about. Had to double-check - yes, it wasn't pstewart's thread. Sorry, ps. My points stand, regardless of who wrote what. If it's offensive, don't say it.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 07:17 pm
I still like my kraut hot...
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 07:56 pm
cjhsa wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
No one ever called me a cracker - they call me Kraut Laughing


I like my Kraut hot.


How about sour?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 10:44 pm
Upon reading the title of this thread; I assumed it was authored by a child or a moron who thought it would be cool to type something so offensive, with the deniability that it was a quote to fall back on...

Onyx's concise response pretty much covered the truth of it in nicer terms.

On the other hand; it was amusing watching Miller make an ass of herself again and insightful to see who the ignorant fools are that think every slur is on par with the worst among them. Rolling Eyes

(My thanks to whoever quotably-quoted Snood's clever quip.)(PDog, I think)
0 Replies
 
 

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