You are a "Nigger" and I am a "Cracker"

roger wrote:

Miller wrote:
pstewart wrote:
I need to correct an error in my previous post. When I was a girl, the separate fountains and restrooms and pools did not say "negro" as I stated, but "colored," which was the newer and more acceptable word at the time.

Where were you living as a girl, that there were separate fountains and restrooms for blacks and whites?

I'll answer for myself, Miller. The family moved from kansas to Orlando Florida in time for me to make the 5th grade. Later moved to Miami, and, oh, yes indeed. All of that, and much more. We had laundromats for white only. Equal facilities for colored on down the road, of course. Likewise, restaurants were equally segregated. I recall an exception in Miani. There was a string of little hamburger joints called Royal Castle, with an incredibly limited menu. Integrated to the extent that colored could eat there, and even had their own counter they could stand up to while eating.

It really seemed quite an odd arrangement, having moved in from the northern part of the country. I almost suspect that if you grew up there, it might seem perfectly normal.

I think that pstewart was implying that separate but equal restrooms etc were the norm in the NORTH, during the 1950s and 1960s and yet she hasn't told us where in the NORTH, other than the small town in Penn, there were these segregated
bathrooms,etc.

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Miller wrote:

[Where were you living as a girl, that there were separate fountains and restrooms for blacks and whites?

Yes, and separate park service swimming pools, etc. I lived in Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh and this was in the early fifties. It was not uncommon, even in northern states, before segregation was wiped out in the sixties.

I don't know what the case was all over the north, since I was just six years old or so and we didn't travel much.

Miller wrote:

pstewart wrote:
... Even in my own lifetime, "niggers" were prevented from buying homes in nice areas.

Where were these "nice areas"?

Up on any of the many hills surrounding the lower sections near the railroad and river and smoky steel mill. The river front was the poorest section of town where the blacks were pretty much forced to live, since in those days we didn't have equal treatment laws in real estate, and any agent who sold a house in the white areas to a black family knew they'd lose lots of business. So, my friend, an educated teacher, was forced to live in a rundown apartment building by the steel mill, unless she could find someone to sell to her directly without going thru a real estate agent.

Mame wrote:

pstewart wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
Some words are as powerful as bullets.

Nice little catchphrase. Now explain exactly how and when that is true, please.

You're not serious??

Of course I am serious. Too many folks "think" in slogans nowadays without analyzing what the clever catchphrases really mean in reality... if anything.

So, Edgar, answer my question if you can. If you can't, then do some thinking until you CAN explain why that catchphrase is true and give examples. If you can't come up with any connection to the real world, perhaps it's time to stop letting one-liners and slogans pass for thoughtful input.

And what did you mean by this?

Quote:

Your age doesn't give you a special pass. I am older than you.

A special pass to what? My age is only relevant here because I did live in the days when we had legalized segregation. And if you are older than I am, surely you must recall how much different, how much worse, it was for blacks in those days. Special pass? Again you say something without explaining why you say it. Maybe my posts are long, but at least I am trying to explain some important things. You toss out a single line that doesn't fit with the discussion, in this case. Maybe we could compromise. I'll say less if you'll say more. Smile

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I would be very surprised to find out that were true in the North at that time. It was not in Kansas and Nebraska.

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roger wrote:

I would be very surprised to find out that were true in the North at that time. It was not in Kansas and Nebraska.

Well, it certainly was true in Pennsylvania. I'm sure you could find out by looking around the web a bit. I'd be interested to know myself which areas were this way.

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Pstewart Quote:

Quote:

I don't know what the case was all over the north,

So, you've never seen during the 1950s or 1960s segregated restrooms etc, in the NORTH besides the one small town in Penn?

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pstewart wrote:

roger wrote:
I would be very surprised to find out that were true in the North at that time. It was not in Kansas and Nebraska.

Well, it certainly was true in Pennsylvania. I'm sure you could find out by looking around the web a bit. I'd be interested to know myself which areas were this way.

You said the segregation was in a small town in Penn. One small town in Penn during the 1950s and 1960s does not imply that the entire NORTH was segregated relative to restrooms, etc.

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Miller wrote:

Pstewart Quote:

Quote:
I don't know what the case was all over the north,

So, you've never seen during the 1950s or 1960s segregated restrooms etc, in the NORTH besides the one small town in Penn?

Never in the sixties, only the early fifties, as I stated. And Pittsburgh is not a small town.

I was just relating my personal recollection from my childhood. The point is that I do understand how bad things were back then, at least in some areas, most likely more in the south. Perhaps you will also join in the research to find when different areas became more fair and enlightened. Did they all wait till the civil rights movement to be forced to integrate? Dunno... would be interested to know though.

But no web browsing tonight.... off to bed. Nite all.

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"Cracker" and the other reference are not the same thing. There were never gangs of black men and law officers hanging "Crackers" in America less then 100 years ago at will.

Nor would it stand that 57,700 "crackers" be purged from their votes in 2000 presidetial election as it happened to black citizens in florida in 2000.

THAT is the difference between "cracker" and the other.

When a gang of Black men hang a "cracker" and get of by an all black jury THEN "cracker" might start to mean something.

On the flip side I think Zippo might mean he feels the way the white man in this song feels by a legendary D.C. punk band;

---------------------------------------------

MINOR THREAT LYRICS

"Guilty Of Being White"

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

GUILTY OF BEING WHITE [x4]

I'm a convict
GUILTY
Of a racist crime
GUILTY
I've only served
GUILTY
19 years of my time

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

-------------------------

this band was mentored by an all black punk band.

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If integragation is supposed to be such an ideal and fair thing, why do you suppose black men, congregated at a barber shop on Chicago's SouthSide ( Michigan Ave, around 39th st ) recently told Barack Obama during his recent visit to the neighborhood ,that black folks in the City would have been better off, had integration never taken place in Chicago?

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pstewart wrote:

Miller wrote:
Pstewart Quote:

Quote:
I don't know what the case was all over the north,

So, you've never seen during the 1950s or 1960s segregated restrooms etc, in the NORTH besides the one small town in Penn?

Never in the sixties, only the early fifties, as I stated. And Pittsburgh is not a small town.

You didn't say it was Pittsburgh, you said it was a small town near Pittsburgh.

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Miller wrote:

It's a well known fact in Chicago that Polish Americans have been called hunkies...

No, that's not a well-known fact. Indeed, it's not a fact at all. Nobody calls Poles "hunkies," except maybe by mistake. They call Poles "polacks."

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Sure nuff, I've been called a Polack, but never a hunkie.

Course, no one gave much of a rat's ass (even in Chicago, where a guy I worked with was all fired up because he didn't get Pulaski Day off), so that may have been at the root of it.

A guy from Ecuador asked a week or two ago what "cracker" meant, and it took a little bit of explaining (but not a whole lot). Can't say any of the words mean quite as much to a lot of younger people -- white, black, or otherwise -- as it does to my parents' or grandparents' set (what's left of 'em). That's sort of the point, though, isn't it? To soften the blows of history so they're not as harshly regarded and not as onerous? Not that there's not a long way to go, but things are better now than when "nigger" and "cracker" could be life-and-death words, aren't they?

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pstewart wrote:

Mame wrote:
pstewart wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
Some words are as powerful as bullets.

Nice little catchphrase. Now explain exactly how and when that is true, please.

You're not serious??

Of course I am serious. Too many folks "think" in slogans nowadays without analyzing what the clever catchphrases really mean in reality... if anything.

So, Edgar, answer my question if you can. If you can't, then do some thinking until you CAN explain why that catchphrase is true and give examples. If you can't come up with any connection to the real world, perhaps it's time to stop letting one-liners and slogans pass for thoughtful input.

So, pstewart, anser my question if you can, and if you can't then do some thinking until you CAN explain it: Who the hell are you to tell him to "do some thinking... blah blah blah..."?

Your way of communicating is not only offensive, but it's not conducive to dialoguing and constructive responses. You should do some thinking of your own, as in: how not to alienate people. If you can't come up with anything, perhaps it's time for you to do some self-reflection, lady.

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joefromchicago wrote:

Miller wrote:
It's a well known fact in Chicago that Polish Americans have been called hunkies...

No, that's not a well-known fact. Indeed, it's not a fact at all. Nobody calls Poles "hunkies," except maybe by mistake. They call Poles "polacks."

You don't know what you're talking about. Anyone from the SouthSide knows that Polish-AMericans have been called
hunkies and Polish-Bohemians have been called Bo-hunks and
as a native from the SouthSIde of Chicago, I know it's a fact.

And by the way JOE, you're the one who can't even list the City limits by street name for the City of Chicago...

Duh!!

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Which suburb do you live in JOE, as it's obvious you know crap about neither SOUTH CHICAGO nor the SouthSide of Chicago...

DUH>

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joefromchicago wrote:

Miller wrote:
It's a well known fact in Chicago that Polish Americans have been called hunkies...

No, that's not a well-known fact. Indeed, it's not a fact at all. Nobody calls Poles "hunkies," except maybe by mistake. They call Poles "polacks."

-----------------------------------------------------------

Origins of bohunk, hunky and honky:

Honky comes from bohunk and hunky, derogatory terms for Bohemian, Hungarian, and Polish immigrants that came into use around the turn of the century. According to Robert Hendrickson, author of the Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, black workers in Chicago meat-packing plants picked up the term from white workers and began applying it indiscriminately to all Caucasians. Probably thought they all looked alike.

www.straightdope.com

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More on origin of "honky":

Another probable etymon for honky, cited by David Dalby in his "African Element in American English" (to be found in my Rappin' and Stylin' Out: Communication in Urban Black America) is the Wolof term honq, "red, pink," a term frequently used in to describe white men in African languages. --Tom Kochman, professor of communication, University of Illinois at Chicago.

straightdope.com

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Wow, miller. You sure get hung up in details.

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pstewart wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
Some words are as powerful as bullets.

Nice little catchphrase. Now explain exactly how and when that is true, please.

On a tv show, a person revealed that another person is homosexual. The man who was "outed" shot and killed one of the parties.

The words of such as Thomas Paine have inflamed men to fight in revolutions.

The primary word in this argument has been an oppressive agent on a whole people. It sums up the whole Jim Crow "You are less than human" and have no human rights thing. Got interrupted and have to quit now.

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and of course we all know that Alabama got most of the blacks and Milwaukee got most of the Polacks because Alabama won the coin toss......

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You are a "Nigger" and I am a "Cracker"

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