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The Government In Charge of Our Entire Health-Care System?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 02:01 pm
old europe wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
all EU-countries (and their overseas territories)


Are we feeling a wee bit colonial today, Walter?

<smiles>


No, but free heath care in e.g. Guadeloupe, Martinique, RĂ©union, the Canary Islands ... isn't bad at all.

Which reminds ...

This is a personal anecdote, and not at all an example for anything.
When I was young (= in school and until I did my compulsory military service) we didn't have an health insurence in our family: dental service was done as friendship by either an uncle or father's riend, all other service were free done by doctors in the order my father was a phsican with.
And this order owned quite a few hospitals in e.g. the USA as well.
So, nearly all children of my father's colleagues flew for medical treatment in the USA: a check-up there and an appendix there ... :wink:
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 02:51 pm
When we were much younger, our family used to go to my brother-in-law for dental work in San Francisco. He did some major work on my teeth - all for free. He did some excellent cap work that have survived to this day - and that's about 40+ years. Other dentists I've seen since then have complimented the work done by my brother-in-law. We used to go see my brother (ophthalmologist) for eye checks and glasses for free, but we no longer think the 100 mile trip is worth the savings.

When my wife worked, we had limited dental coverage, but it paid for cleaning 3 times/year. Since we no longer have dental insurance, we pay cash for everything. I told my wife she should go to Atlanta to have her teeth worked on by my nephew. he he he...

We have six doctors in our family, but we only use them as resources - not for direct services. My sister was an oncology nurse for 25 years, and my nephew is a stomach cancer specialist. One of my niece is a neurologist, but her practice is in Texas, and she also teaches at the UT in Galveston.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 03:10 pm
OE, keep up the good work.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 05:30 pm
old europe wrote:


It is, frankly, a mystery to me why the health care costs are that high in the United States. I would like to see an explanation for that as well.

(The current projections for per capita health care costs are $7,092 in 2006 and $7,498 in 2007, by the way. That's a lot of money.)


Universal Health Care coverage for the 59-64 year old person, is
$700+/month or at least $8400/year.

Since you aren't a citizen of the U.S. why should any of this, really concern you?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 05:49 pm
Why not? You're a sourpuss.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 05:56 pm
old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
True, but look at the expenditures, not the number of people. Somebody might go to India to have a surgery for 10 grand that might cost ten times that in the U.S.


.... which would, in theory, bring down the per capita health care costs in the US. Right?

I am simply pointing out that the number of U. S. citizens going abroad for health care would have to be much greater than the number that come here to equal the same amount of money expended there vs here.



Hm, sure, but I was talking about the money US citizens would save on treatments in the US. If an American would end up saving a huge amount of money by having his hip replacement done in India, that would bring down the per capita health care costs in the US.


Why would any sane Bostonian ever go to India for hip work, when they can have excellent ( best in the World ) orthopedic work at Boston's New England Baptist Hospital?

Are you an Indian, old europa?
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 06:03 pm
Miller wrote:
Universal Health Care coverage for the 59-64 year old person, is
$700+/month or at least $8400/year.


Are you talking about Universal Health Care in Massachusetts? Or in Norway?

<scratches head>

Anyways, I've been talking about national per capita figures for the United States. The numbers and projections are from the Department of Health and Human Services Center for Medicare and Medicaid Expenditures - you can find them in the National Health Expenditures Projections 2006-2016 data sheet.



Miller wrote:
Since you aren't a citizen of the U.S. why should any of this, really concern you?


I'm interested in this stuff.

Are you saying that not being a citizen of a specific country should stop someone from posting about that topic?

Makes me wonder.... because, you know, you've only been starting like 18 new topics that exclusively dealt with the health care system in Canada. Now... You know... Do you have dual citizenship? Are you Canadian? Or are you saying that that was a mistake, and you shouldn't really have started all those threads, because Canadian health care is of no concern to you?
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Aug, 2007 06:21 pm
Miller wrote:
Why would any sane Bostonian ever go to India for hip work, when they can have excellent ( best in the World ) orthopedic work at Boston's New England Baptist Hospital?


I don't know.

Let me have a look at this website here... (which happens to be a Massachusetts based company... funny, eh?)
(Was the first one that popped up on Google, just so you know....)



one of the guys over at this 'medical tourism' company website wrote:
Who should be interested?

As long as you are healthy enough to travel, you stand to benefit from medical tourism's offerings.
While anyone is a prospective patient, most of our customers fall into one of the three categories:

Elective surgery:
A large number of medical tourists seek out elective procedures such as cosmetic or wellness treatments that are not covered by insurance plans.

Underinsured:
As insurers cut back on their coverage and insurance costs skyrocket, more and more individuals find themselves 'underinsured'. High deductibles, wait-lists and limited physician choices force many patients to seek out alternative treatments. Others find that the care they need is not covered under their catastrophic insurance plans. An alternative to withdrawing from their precious 401K is to seek healthcare overseas.

Uninsured:
16% of the US population is uninsured. These individuals, many of which are self-employed, frequently find themselves dipping into their hard-earned savings to finance their medical care. Medical tourism is an increasingly popular solution among our uninsured population.

Others:
In some cases, even for insured people, the cost of treatment overseas is less than their out-of-pocket amount in the US. If you are a Baby Boomer you do not yet qualify for Medicare or Medicaid for your urgently needed surgery. For others who have lost their group coverage due to retirement, the surgery or procedure they need may not be covered under the Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid benefits. Under such circumstances, medical tourism is the most viable option.


Weird, huh? People have the best health care in the world available right there in Boston, and they would travel somewhere else?

Very strange.



Miller wrote:
Are you an Indian, old europa?


Now, Miller, this may come as a surprise to you, but, uhm. No.

Actually, I'm European.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 03:00 am
Yes, I'm aware you're not an American.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 05:00 am
Miller wrote:
Yes, I'm aware you're not an American.



And what answering questions? (Though this really was quite difficult to get!)
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 07:22 am
old europe wrote:
Miller wrote:
Why would any sane Bostonian ever go to India for hip work, when they can have excellent ( best in the World ) orthopedic work at Boston's New England Baptist Hospital?


I don't know.

Let me have a look at this website here... (which happens to be a Massachusetts based company... funny, eh?)
(Was the first one that popped up on Google, just so you know....)

[quote
Weird, huh? People have the best health care in the world available right there in Boston, and they would travel somewhere else?

Very strange.

Miller wrote:
Are you an Indian, old europa?


Now, Miller, this may come as a surprise to you, but, uhm. No.

Actually, I'm European.



But you're not American, so therefore of little consequence is how I read that... Good Lord...

Great site, OE ... I had no idea that services like this existed. Interesting thread.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 12:52 pm
we have had several threads on medical outsourcing .
here is one :
OUTSOURCING MEDICAL PROCEDURES
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 01:28 pm
trolled back to page 20 in the "medical" forum but didn't find the original thread .
may try again later.
in the meantime have a look here :
OVERSEAS HOSPITALS
hbg
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 01:52 pm
Thanks, hamburger... I am somewhat surprised at what an organized business it seems to be ... It's amazing how many things that are going on out there of which we are unaware, isn't it?
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 02:10 pm
Yes, thanks, hamburger. I've heard about all that, but reading up on it, I really had no idea about the extent of the whole industry.

I found this bit at the website of the University of Delaware: Medical tourism growing worldwide...

It talks about the cost of procedures in various countries:

Quote:
For many medical tourists, though, the real attraction is price. The cost of surgery in India, Thailand or South Africa can be one-tenth of what it is in the United States or Western Europe, and sometimes even less. A heart-valve replacement that would cost $200,000 or more in the U.S., for example, goes for $10,000 in India - and that includes round-trip airfare and a brief vacation package. Similarly, a metal-free dental bridge worth $5,500 in the U.S. costs $500 in India, a knee replacement in Thailand with six days of physical therapy costs about one-fifth of what it would in the States, and Lasik eye surgery worth $3,700 in the U.S. is available in many other countries for only $730. Cosmetic surgery savings are even greater: A full facelift that would cost $20,000 in the U.S. runs about $1,250 in South Africa.



Then it goes on and discusses the quality of the medical care, and how some countries have specialized in medical technologies or procedures...

Interesting.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 02:28 pm
old europe :
when we were in germany after 9/11 "der spiegel" featured an article about "off shore medical treatment" .

this is what i reacall :
many rich saudis used to come to the U.S. for medical treatments - and they would often take over a whole hospital floor for their families and entourage . after 9/11 it became more difficult for these saudis to gain quick access to the u.S. - visas took time to obtain .
apparently some saudis now went to german hospitals for treatment , but german hospitals would not set aside a whole floor for their families etc .

a/t SPIEGEL some of the rich saudis decided to put money into hospitals in india and other countries where they could both receive the treatment AND bring their families .

from newsclips i've seen , many of these hospitals look like MODERN PALACES ! and , of course , most of the doctors at those hospitals were trained in the U.S. and britain - some even held senior medical positions in these countries .
(i'll stick to canada for-the-time-being !)
hbg
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 02:44 pm
hbg, My physician is from India. She's been promoted to do more administrative work at the hospital, but have kept some of her patients. I'm one of those lucky ones; she's the best doctor I've had in all my life, and I would be very sad and angry if I ever lost her. .
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 05:37 pm
c.i. wrote :

Quote:
hbg, My physician is from India. She's been promoted to do more administrative work at the hospital, but have kept some of her patients. I'm one of those lucky ones; she's the best doctor I've had in all my life, and I would be very sad and angry if I ever lost her. .


i recall some of the doctors that had gone back to india being interviewed .
they stated that their income in india - while lower in $terms than in the U.S.- provided them with a higher living standard than in the U.S.
bigger houses , household staff - cook , maids , gardener ... - , private school for the children were much more affordable in india than in the U.S. - and NO malpractice insurance premiums !

hope YOU (!) keep your doctor happy - better bring her some flowers Laughing
we sent our family physician and his secretary/wife a few bottles of wine for their 25th wedding anniversary ! (they did appreciate it very much - i'm sure they could afford buying their own wine - but "it's the thought that counts" ) .
hbg
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 06:15 pm
I am still searching for more data on the expenditures on medical care here in the U.S. for both illegal immigrants and legal visitors. This site gives a hint to the magnitude of spending on illegals immigrant medical treatment, which is just one factor that I brought up that would affect the graphs posted by oe.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-03-07-immigrants-health_x.htm

From that article, this quote:

In Pima County, Ariz., hospitals reported having to absorb $76 million in treatment costs in 2000, about one-third of it from treating illegal immigrants.

So just in one county we are talking about at least 25 million in un-reimbursed costs, just for the hospitals. I suppose this does not account for other entities that incur costs. Also, I suppose this does not include the fully reimbursed treatment costs for children of illegals that may be paid by Medicaid, etc. Simply project similar numbers for a couple dozen border counties, and lesser numbers for hundreds, or thousands of counties throughout the U.S., and we are talking billions, not millions.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Aug, 2007 06:43 pm
okie wrote:
This from hamburger's post:
Quote:

.....from newsclips i've seen , many of these hospitals look like MODERN PALACES ! and , of course , most of the doctors at those hospitals were trained in the U.S. and britain - some even held senior medical positions in these countries .....

So what country has led the world in medical progress? And why? Maybe Miller could consider giving a test and grade you on it after some of you ponder the answers? Okay class, get with it and study.



Below is wikipedia's history of medicine.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_medicine

If anything it shows that most major medical breakthroughs that I have been able to find have been pretty much outside of America.

DNA - America and England
Pasteurization - France
Modern Nursing - Italy
Genetics - Austria
Artifical Heart - America
Ultrasound - Scotland
CAT Scan - America and England
Heart Transplant - South Africa
Penicillin - Austria and Scotland
Viagra - England





Maybe you have some examples to help demonstrate your point.
0 Replies
 
 

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