1
   

Teenage drinking

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 08:03 am
Thomas wrote:
While lurking in this thread, it struck me that statements like these usually bolster concerns about underage drinking. Why aren't they bolstering concerns about underage driving? Why not raise the legal driving age in America? Here in Europe, it stands at 18 years in most of our countries -- and our teenagers function anyway.

Drinking laws and driving laws derive from two different cultural threads in American life. Drinking laws come from the Protestant tradition that holds alcohol (and all other forms of fun) to be sinful, and therefore our drinking laws reflect that repressive heritage. Driving laws, in contrast, come from our frontier mentality, where everyone with enough gumption should be able to "light out for the territories." Our driving laws, therefore, reflect that far more expansive heritage. Plus, parents just don't want to be bothered with chauffeuring their kids around, and kids won't take public transportation because it's not "cool" (and, in the suburbs and rural areas, it's often non-existent).
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 08:08 am
That leaves bicycles. That's how we usually got to our parties.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 08:15 am
Thomas wrote:
That leaves bicycles. That's how we usually got to our parties.

Nerd.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 08:19 am
Thomas, The Chicago Tribune did a Special Report on teen driving last year. There are links within the articles with various stats. I'll try to quote you specifics later but you can take a look in the meantime.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jul, 2007 08:23 am
Thomas wrote:
That leaves bicycles. That's how we usually got to our parties.


Yeah, but here in America most of our roads, and this is particularly true in the 'burbs are designed only for automobiles and kids on bikes can find themselves flattened.

Me, I've already told my kids that when they turn 16 they are getting a MARTA pass and a bicycle. And we make it a priority to live near public transportation. Not everyone has this option, though.

I'm one of those people who thinks you can solve a lot of societal problems through proper design and planning. I know, I know, crazy.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:38 am
Published just a couple of days ago:


Quote:
Types of Alcoholic Beverages Usually Consumed by Students in 9th--12th Grades --- Four States, 2005


Excessive alcohol consumption contributes to approximately 4,500 deaths among underage youths in the United States each year (e.g., from homicides, motor-vehicle crashes, and suicides) and an average of 60 years of life lost per death. However, little is known about the specific types of alcoholic beverages consumed by youths. These data are important because numerous evidence-based strategies for reducing underage drinking rates are beverage-specific, including increasing alcohol excise taxes and increasing restrictions on the distribution and sale of alcoholic beverages. To examine types of alcoholic beverages usually consumed by students in 9th-12th grades, CDC analyzed 2005 Youth Risk Behavior Survey (YRBS) data from the four state surveys that included a question on the type of alcohol consumed (Arkansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, and Wyoming). This report describes the results of that analysis, which indicated that liquor (e.g., bourbon, rum, scotch, vodka, or whiskey) was the most prevalent type of alcoholic beverage usually consumed among students in 9th-12th grades who reported current alcohol use or binge drinking. These findings suggest that considering beverage-specific alcohol consumption by youths is important when developing alcohol-control policies, specifically those related to the price and availability of particular types of alcoholic beverages.


Full article in "Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report"
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 09:12 am
Quote:
This report describes the results of that analysis, which indicated that liquor (e.g., bourbon, rum, scotch, vodka, or whiskey) was the most prevalent type of alcoholic beverage usually consumed among students in 9th-12th grades who reported current alcohol use or binge drinking. These findings suggest that considering beverage-specific alcohol consumption by youths is important when developing alcohol-control policies, specifically those related to the price and availability of particular types of alcoholic beverages.


I didn't read the entire MMWR report, but this is ridiculous. The reason kids in 9th-12th grade drink boubon, rum, scotch, vodka, or whiskey is because that's the easiest thing to steal from their parent's liquor cabinet.

14-year-old binge parties are common here. Each kid steals whatever he/she can steal from the home cupboard and arrives at a designated location. The kids all pass the bottles and get wasted. Alcohol control policies intended to keep specific types of alcohol out of the hands of kids assumes kids have a preference. They don't have a preference, they prefer whatever they can get their hands on.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 10:32 am
From the MMWR link --

Quote:
Several factors might play a role in students choosing liquor more than other types of alcoholic beverages. First, high school students have a high prevalence of binge drinking, which can lead to acute intoxication (5); liquor might facilitate this outcome because of the higher ethanol concentration. Second, liquor can be combined with other beverages such as soft drinks, possibly making concealment easier and providing a flavor that is more acceptable to younger drinkers. These same factors also might cause youths to unintentionally drink more alcohol and drink it in a shorter period (6), increasing the risk for alcohol-related effects (e.g., alcohol poisoning).


OR, liquor might be the beverage least likely to be missed than the beer from the fridge.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 05:41 am
Re: Teenage drinking
JPB wrote:
Last fall 2 local teens died as a result of a car crash. The teens were returning to a party at the time of the crash and the parents of the party's host were charged to the extent of the existing law. They were found guilty of obstruction of justice and child endangerment.

Quote:
Parents found guilty

Jury says couple allowed teens to drink in basement before fatal crash


By Courtney Flynn and Andrew L. Wang, Tribune staff reporters. Freelance reporters Barbara Bell and Andrew Schroedter contributed to this report
9:05 AM CDT, July 22, 2007

As the debate continues in courtrooms, at high schools and around kitchen tables across the country on who ultimately bears responsibility for underage drinking, a jury in Lake County weighed in with its own opinion Saturday, finding a Deerfield couple guilty of allowing their son's friends to drink in their basement one night last October.

Two teenage guests were killed in a car crash shortly after leaving the Deerfield home of Jeffrey and Sara Hutsell. According to testimony given during the five-day trial against the couple last week, the 18-year-old driver had consumed alcohol at the party.

The jury of seven women and five men deliberated seven hours before reaching its decision at about 7:40 p.m. They also convicted the Hutsells of one count of endangerment of a child and one count of obstruction of justice for lying to police officers on the night of the accident. The jury acquitted the couple of another obstruction charge for destroying evidence. The Hutsells showed no emotion as the verdicts were read.

"Parents need to be responsible and you cannot host underage drinking parties in your home," said Lake County State's Atty. Michael Waller following the verdict. "The consequences, as we unfortunately learned in this case, can be deadly."

With the convictions, each Hutsell could face penalties from probation to a year in jail. The Hutsells' attorneys declined to comment as they left court.

The Hutsells also declined to comment.

Meanwhile, Deerfield police reported Saturday night that three teens -- one who testified at the trial and two others who were on the witness list -- were arrested at a party Friday night for alleged alcohol-related offenses.

more on the trial

more on the new arrests


Teenage drinking is prevalent here. Since last fall's tragedy, the police dept and schools have been holding symposiums and town meetings for parents and teens to try to get the message across about the dangers of drinking (with or without driving).

The trial has been the topic of discussion in every grocery aisle, social gathering, and kitchen table. What are your thoughts? Should parents be held responsible if teens drink in their homes (they did not provide the alcohol and claimed they were unaware that anyone was drinking)? An amended underage drinking law has been passed by both the IL House and Senate making it a Class IV felony for parents to allow underage drinking in their home or provide access to the home for that purpose. The Bill is awaiting the governor's signature.

As to the new arrests, some of the kids involved were at the party last fall. One of those arrested is a survivor of the fatal crash. There were six arrest total including trespassing charges because the party was hosted by the homeowner's daughter without their permission (they are out of town). It seems the efforts of the past year haven't been effective. Is it simply a matter of kids being kids? If nothing else, this trial has changed the 'wink, wink' mentality that many local parents had about drinking in their homes.

This is arbitrary n capricious.
By this reasoning, no one shud be allowed access to anyone 's house,
in that he might drink ( or take something else ) and the host be held liable.
Y single out and discriminate against teenagers ? Is it because thay can 't vote,
to get their revenge against the politicians who voted to screw them ?

Reading about this jury,
and those politicians who made it a felony,
gives me thrills of joy that I have no children
,
and that consequently many decades have passed since the last time
that any kid has been in my house.
I hope that the shafted teenagers remember this,
after thay eventually get the vote, and effect revenge
at electiontime
.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 05:58 am
I am 100% certain that the fact that
no kid has been in my house for the last several decades
has not prevented ONE DROP of alcohol from entering
the mouth of any teenager
, regardless of whether
he drove or not.

I earnestly believe that people of all ages
r perfectly cabable of drinking, or taking other forms of drugs,
or going vegitarian ( none of which I recommend ) with no assistance from me.
David
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 06:07 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Thomas wrote:
While lurking in this thread, it struck me that statements like these usually bolster concerns about underage drinking. Why aren't they bolstering concerns about underage driving? Why not raise the legal driving age in America? Here in Europe, it stands at 18 years in most of our countries -- and our teenagers function anyway.

Drinking laws and driving laws derive from two different cultural threads in American life. Drinking laws come from the Protestant tradition that holds alcohol (and all other forms of fun) to be sinful, and therefore our drinking laws reflect that repressive heritage. Driving laws, in contrast, come from our frontier mentality, where everyone with enough gumption should be able to "light out for the territories." Our driving laws, therefore, reflect that far more expansive heritage. Plus, parents just don't want to be bothered with chauffeuring their kids around, and kids won't take public transportation because it's not "cool" (and, in the suburbs and rural areas, it's often non-existent).




Our drinking age (in my state) is 18, (when you become legally adult) and our driving is 16.

The carnage of young males, especially, on the road is leading to increasingly hard to get licences, probationary licenses that restrict speed, and now, hopefully soon, the number of other people a kid can drive in their car during their probationary period.

Numbers of kids in the car correlates to likelihood of having an accident.


I dunno....I suppose it is about balancing the protective with the enforceable and reasonable.


The older they are when they begin to drink and drive the better from the brain development point of view....but keeping them from doing those things? Oy.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 06:51 am
Thomas wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I was really shocked by this:
Quote:
Funerals for teenagers who die while driving drunk are as all-American as football.

While lurking in this thread, it struck me that statements like these usually bolster concerns about underage drinking.
Why aren't they bolstering concerns about underage driving?
Why not raise the legal driving age in America?


Here in Europe, it stands at 18 years in most of our countries -- and our teenagers function anyway.

I am reminded of my dead friend, Neil.
He died around 15 or 20 years ago, about age 70.
He had smoked too much; bad for his lungs.

He started driving here in NYC when he was 14.
The legal driving age in NYC was 18.
He knew for a FACT that he did not need a license to drive; his car worked just fine, without one.

He eventually got a license, when he was 25.
Before that, he just forgot about it.

The citizens work within a set of superstitions
that merely because government does not want u to do something,
that therefore, u cannot do that. Docile citizens do not deserve much respect.

Instead of being concerned about underage drinking
or underage driving, Y not take the time to arrange to curtail, reduce, degrade and cripple
the powers of government, so that progressively more liberty will prevail for u,
and each of u can and will set your OWN priorities and arrange your own lives,
deciding for yourselves how u will order your lives instead of having some damned politicians
( who are forever ripping their salaries off of u )
decide those matters and ram their decisions down your throats ?????

( I 'll tell u a secret:
IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FREE COUNTRY ! )

David
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 07:06 am
As you know, my teens are 16 and 18. Since middle school they have had to deal with the deaths of 11, yes Eleven friends, with all but one being due to drunk driving. Two were killed by a drunk driver while they themselves were sober. One was chased down by a jealous boyfriend.

That is more deaths than I have had to deal with in my 44 years.

Five of the deaths occured in the past year and a half. The last one, this past spring, was due to a party at a friends house, parents out of town, and the daughter threw a party. Sadeki was supposed to leave with someone else, but he was ready to go and his ride was not. Another kid offered him a ride (18yo). They crashed not far from the party and Sadeki was seriously injured. The driver and other passenger paniced, called the party house and had someone else come to get the third passenger. They waited to call about the crash, and allowed Sadeki to die on the side of the road while they tried to figure out how to not get in trouble.

Like the other articles posted and discussions taking place in other communities, holding the parents responsible for parties serving alcohol in their home became reality here.

The whole thing was heartbreaking. Sadeki had been a talented bright young man with great promise. I don't have an answer other than that there is no way I would leave my kids in charge of the house for a weekend. I should be able to. I would like to be able to. But, I won't.

As far as kids thinking they are invincible and will never die... I think the kids at the high school here are very aware that is not the case. I have to pound into my kids that they are to call me for a ride and are under no circumstances to get in a vehicle with anyone that has been drinking. I tell them I won't lecture, grumble or otherwise preach. I'll be thankful.

Sadeki's mother has spoken at the school several times since her sons death. A campaign to educate the students on alcohol was implimented in high gear. Whether or not it makes a difference, I dunno.

Meantime, two of Seth's best friends (twin boys) are spending this year as foreign exchange students in Austria and Germany. One has already arrived there and has called Seth to tell him the host parents had a keg party for him to introduce him to others his age. (16) Then he called again yesterday to say he was in a bar with his host family's son (17 or 18 yo) drinking Red Bull and Vodka. It will be interesting to see if the access changes their perception and takes away the glamour / mystic of alcohol. Maybe when they return alcohol will be no big deal, not a bad boy thing, and they can get on with life. We'll see.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 07:16 am
... family's son (17 or 18 yo) drinking Red Bull and Vodka ...

Legally, you can't get Vodka (even in mixed drinks) under the age of 18 in Germany (even if the alcohol percentage is below that of beer or wine [which can sold 16-year olds]) :wink:
0 Replies
 
eyelet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 07:17 am
I read yesterday that suicides had risen 76% in preteen girls.

Suicide in preteen girls

Are children so unhappy? 76% is a huge increase - and so young. What are kids experiencing that they would take their own lives at such a young age? Or even continue to risk their own and others lives when they know the dangers that drinking and driving can bring? Huffing (sp) too...are they trying to numb themselves to things that are happening in their own lives? Are they so bored and unhappy they don't care that it is dangerous to themselves and others - it just seems like these behaviors have to mean something besides laws that keep them from drinking at a young age. Maybe that would take the taboo away for a lot of kids and would reduce the number of needless deaths. But with the other things such as the suicides and huffing, it seems there is something else going on as well. Maybe they are not connected at all but it is disturbing. All of it.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 07:34 am
Walter - He is in Austria. Is it the same there?

In the cases I mentioned above, all of the kids were from well to do families. Are there any stats related to income and drunk driving teen deaths or suicide? Entitlement or some sense of protection from financial status seems to be in play in the cases we have dealt with here.

Either that, or the deaths of drunk driving teens that are poor are not being mentioned in the media. I don't think that is the case.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 07:47 am
squinney wrote:
Walter - He is in Austria. Is it the same there?


No, in Ausria you may drink any alcohol above 16.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 05:27 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
squinney wrote:
Walter - He is in Austria. Is it the same there?


No, in Ausria you may drink any alcohol above 16.

How about France ?
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 07:41 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:


How about France ?


The French drink a bottle of wine for lunch and think this is perfectly
normal.

In Germany, (well certain parts of Germany) beer is considered
a basic food ingredient, and kids are allowed to nip on it occasionally.

Prohibition is the problem - education and clarification what alcohol
can and will do to you, is the answer. Why is this so hard for Americans?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 10:00 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
squinney wrote:
Walter - He is in Austria. Is it the same there?


No, in Ausria you may drink any alcohol above 16.

How about France ?

No alcohol to be sold on youth below 16 (Article L.80, Loi n° 91-32)
0 Replies
 
 

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