Indications are that we'll win, but there's one little thing

There is ample evidence that my points are valid, kuvasz. This evidence includes the fact that black people immigrating from other countries do better here than black people that have been born here and taught that they are severely disadvantaged. Black people that come here and have no pre-conceived notions of having a handicap because of color, do better. Further, people from other countries, such as Vietnam, have done quite well, and they would of course have ample reason to expect discrimination. We have all heard of the idea of being too white by studying and excelling in schools. This is a cultural thing, and some notable black people have recognized this, such as Bill Cosby, Jessie Lee Peterson, and others. Unfortunately, the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons and others continue to preach racism, and it is those people that the press hold out as black leaders, when many blacks are not happy about it.

There is ample evidence that my points are valid, kuvasz. This evidence includes the fact that black people immigrating from other countries do better here than black people that have been born here and taught that they are severely disadvantaged. Black people that come here and have no pre-conceived notions of having a handicap because of color, do better. Further, people from other countries, such as Vietnam, have done quite well, and they would of course have ample reason to expect discrimination. We have all heard of the idea of being too white by studying and excelling in schools. This is a cultural thing, and some notable black people have recognized this, such as Bill Cosby, Jessie Lee Peterson, and others. Unfortunately, the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons and others continue to preach racism, and it is those people that the press hold out as black leaders, and thankfully I think more and more blacks are not happy about it.

The race problem in America has always been, in part, a class problem and it remains both a matter of economic deprivation and color prejudice.

We have come a long and at times bloody way since the Selma boycott and Greensboro sit-ins, but we are not there yet.

I don't think Hillary would want Obama as a second. Just an opinion, but I think she would want someone who wouldn't potentially steal so much of her thunder.

Then look at the rightwing noise machine's repetetive portrayals of her at that same period and onward... "cold", "ambitious", "scheming", "elitist", "manipulative", etc

I don't want to help you guys too much, but just a suggestion, you have a much better chance with Obama than with Hillary. Another tip, its personality, not gender or race. You need to forget race and gender, if you can, if you want to win. Your candidate, if your candidate wants to win, should not campaign as a black or as a woman, whichever the case may be. Just a few tips for you.

I think that's an unfair assessment of her character and motivations, snood. And after all, it isn't as if she has no familiarity with having someone else close to her who packs more "thunder" than her.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

snood wrote:

Good for you, Finn.


Obama is "widely known as half-white".

For someone who wishes to be seen as intelligent enough to discuss race in an open-minded way, you consistently disappoint.

What is laughable about my comment?

Are you suggesting that pointing out the fact of his racial heritage is somehow, in itself, racist?

Emoticons notwithstanding, Obama is bi-racial. He is the son of a "black" man (and an African black man at that) and a "white woman" (and a white woman from Kansas at that).

Perhaps it troubles you that the Democratic party has gotten behind Obama in a way it never did for Jackson, Sharpton, Mosley-Braun or Chisholm, and the reason may be that the man is seen as representing positions and interests that extend beyond racial confines.

At what point does a blind assertion of racism become racist?

I can't help it Finn - you're just funny. Maybe it's just in the sense that one must either laugh at you, or be saddened. You speak as if you are somehow a judge of what does and doesn't pass as "intelligent" discourse on matters of race, but your words reveal you over and over as retrograde and provincial.

The statement that Obama is "widely viewed as half-white" is just funny? What the hell does that even mean? Widely viewed by who?

I won't fit into any of the pigeonholes you're trying so pitifully hard to put me in - I simply think this country ain't ready for a black or a woman president, period. Twist it, pervert it, put it in your pipe and smoke it. It isn't getting any more complicated.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

snood wrote:

Good for you, Finn.


Obama is "widely known as half-white".

For someone who wishes to be seen as intelligent enough to discuss race in an open-minded way, you consistently disappoint.

What is laughable about my comment?

Are you suggesting that pointing out the fact of his racial heritage is somehow, in itself, racist?

Emoticons notwithstanding, Obama is bi-racial. He is the son of a "black" man (and an African black man at that) and a "white woman" (and a white woman from Kansas at that).

I think you should be made aware of the prejudice recently transplanted native black Africans receive from the native American black population.

Thank you but I am aware of it, in particularly because I have a good friend who has come to this country from Nigeria.

But regardless, if Osama had the skin color of John Lewis he wouldn't even be talked about other than a curiosity. It isn't just about color, it goes deeper, into what shade you are. Bill Cosby was a far greater talent than Diane Carol but her light skin made her more palatable to the white majority of TV viewers and she not Cosby was the first African American to star in her own weekly tv show.

And Obama is a nice non-threatening cafe au lait shade with (better still) thin lips who white liberals can better embrace without confrontation with their denied racism.

So I commend you for being close to the target, but not too close.

btw, Bob Marley was "half-white" too, and the son of an Englishman.

Big deal. The fact that someone is "half-white" is immaterial except to the extent that those who view him or her factor it into their opinion. Snood in his reflexively (and perhaps warranted) attitude about race reacts to any use of "half-white" as some clear indication of racism. Of course it is not. It probably is for those who view Obama in any racial mode, but that's another story.

Perhaps it troubles you that the Democratic party has gotten behind Obama in a way it never did for Jackson, Sharpton, Mosley-Braun or Chisholm, and the reason may be that the man is seen as representing positions and interests that extend beyond racial confines.

On the other hand American blacks who live their "blackness" in White America every day might look at that as selling out.

True enough, but that's not really the point unless Snood believes that Obama cannot be elected president because African-Americans will not support him. Chances are (and who knows because Snoody doesn't deign to discuss his opinions with a Cracker like me) that should racism prevent Obama from being elected (Let's face it, if he makes the general election American blacks who "live their 'blackness' in White America every day will not vote for the Republican candidate rather than any sort of "Oreo.") it will be the racism of those who might be, otherwise, expected to vote Democratic. {Too many (), I know}
At what point does a blind assertion of racism become racist?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but linguistically speaking blind assertions of racism without proof are ad hominum, not racist.

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Well, only if one insists on a strict interpretation of "blind." Substitute, if you will, "unfounded" or "reflexive" with "blind" and you will arrive at my point with, perhaps, a greater linguistic comfort.

By the way Kuvy, it's quite refreshing to exchange ideas with you absent the usual exchange of insults. Let's try and keep it up.