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What is freedom?

 
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 06:16 am
val wrote:
I didn't ask you to give any proof: I asked only how could you reach the knowledge of something that, by definition, is beyond any possible human experience.


You asked

Quote:
how do you know the existence of objective laws? By mystical intuition?


And I answered that it was through logical deduction based on the accepted rules of logic it naturally follows from axioms that (as you've agreed) are essential to assume in order for philosophy to get anywhere.

I fail to see what more I could do to answer.

Allow me to restate. Perhaps this will assist.

If there are only subjective laws, then the fact that there are only subjective laws is an objective law. Thus there is an objective law (that there are only subjective laws).

If there is an objective law, therefore there is an objective law.

The alternative is that there are no laws, which we have agreed is not a philosophically viable alternative.

Thus it is a truism that there is an objective law.

What more can I say?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 12:59 pm
theantibuddha wrote:
val wrote:
Any relations you establish between your tactile sensation and the thing are concepts.


As I mentioned in ontologically real, don't confuse the medium with the message. That my perception of the universe is conceptual only does not mean that the universe does not exist. That the "laws of physics" are a set of concepts in my head doesn't mean that there isn't a code of behaviour to which all matter and energy adhere. I use the english words (and concepts) because they are all I have, yet rest assured that I am referring to the actual entity, not the concept.

Perhaps my concepts are not entirely accurate representations of the actual entities, but the things to which they apply most likely exist. Unless you wish to descend into absolute nihilism it's pretty essential to assume that the universe exists.


How can you make assumptions about the physical world because of some sense you have... and not make the same types of inferences in regard to the metaphysical world. That is a bit one sided. The fact that the physical world seems to go back in time to one event only seems to cry out that the physical world has invisible elements that we cannot perceive yet. There is no proof that these elements are not supernatural.

There had to be something to initiate the physical world.

One thing to think about... That a "reflection" of light is only an image of the real thing. Is the universe a reflection? Yet a reflection has energy and intensity and it's own space and time. It can be physically seen and has reflective properties even though it is only a copy of the thing that produced it.

Light has a way of making a remarkable copy of itself in a reflection that even though it is only a reflection it is "real" light. Though it is not the "source" of light it is still "light".. Reflected light only reflects in two dimensions where the source reflects in three. Even when we see our own reflection in a mirror it is still light that illuminates the subject.

How does this relate to freedom? Well if you are to think about the mirror and the senses ... the reflection in the mirror is a "slave" to the thing that produces it. That our own "real" image is not our own but that of something else. That we live to be like something that we are naturally not necessarily inclined to be. We emulate the light because we sense that is the thing to do. We provide the image of the source.
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 12:56 am
Dear Rex.

I particularly hate it when I do something because knowing the rules and the situation I know that I can and then someone else does it because they see me do it. The only thing is the other person doesn't know the rules, does the same thing (which in their circumstances may not be permitted) but does it much bigger. I know inevitably that they will point to me and say, "AntiBuddha did it so I can too".

If you wish to do something then do so, but don't attempt to justify something through my actions unless you understand exactly what I've done and why. (it's safest to assume that you don't).

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How can you make assumptions about the physical world because of some sense you have... and not make the same types of inferences in regard to the metaphysical world.


Yes, I assumed that the world exists and has rules governing its behaviour without any assumption of what the actual state of the world is or what rules govern its behaviour. Wow, I must be a gambling man to take such an immense leap of faith.

*rolls eyes*

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There is no proof that these elements are not supernatural.


Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Haha, yes. Sorry, been waiting years for a chance to throw that quote back in the face of theists, couldn't resist.

Anyway, Define supernatural.

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There had to be something to initiate the physical world.


There really doesn't, but for sake of argument you could assume that there was.

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One thing to think about... That a "reflection" of light is only an image of the real thing.


Reflected light is the same thing as normal light. By impacting with solid matter it may have altered its frequency slightly but that happens even in travelling through air.

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Yet a reflection has energy and intensity and it's own space and time.


This is EXACTLY why people shouldn't make assumptions about the metaphysical from their senses. "ooohhhh, mirror shiny, me see self in mirror but can't touch self. Must be other universe in there." Dude, it's rebounding light creating an optical illusion.

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It can be physically seen


As opposed to non-physically being seen.

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and has reflective properties


The reflective surface has reflective properties. The "reflection" (if such a thing can be said to even exist beyond an optical illusion) does not. A reflection of a mirror is not any more reflective than the reflective surface in which it appears. Only the original is still reflective.

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even though it is only a copy of the thing that produced it.


No... it's light bouncing off the original being reflected off a surface. It is not a copy and does not exist.

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Light has a way of making a remarkable copy of itself in a reflection that even though it is only a reflection it is "real" light.


Yeah, it bounces. Remarkable. I have a remarkable plastic ball I should show you some day with magically and wondrous properties.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2012 11:36 am
Study Reveals Atheists Are MORE Compassionate And Generous Than Highly Religious People

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/02/study-reveals-atheists-are-more-compassionate-and-generous-than-highly-religious-people/
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2012 11:38 am
It would seem that for something to be considered 'free' it would need a certain level of autonomy.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 05:58 pm
The Philosophy of Liberty

0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 01:07 am
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 01:17 pm
The Scales of Intimidation
Does the Supreme Court feel threatened, intimidated, or harassed by the press?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/06/do_the_justices_feel_intimidated_by_the_media_s_scrutiny_of_their_decisions_and_conduct_.html
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:00 am
@RexRed,
Quote:
Study Reveals Atheists Are MORE Compassionate And Generous Than Highly Religious People


Sounds logical. Highly religious people, at least the Christians I've had experiences with, are more likely to look down on unfortunate people, thinking of their misfortune as the rightful punishment from god for their sinful lifestyle. Self-righteousness has strong ties with religion.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:21 am
@Cyracuz,
Exactly Cyracuz, religious people feel repressed and condemned by their own religion so they feel justified to do the same unto others.
0 Replies
 
 

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