When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

I've actually checked out Kaine on the website "On The Issues", he is pretty progressive. Very pro-gay rights even before most of the others came along. Also, he was against more wars without reauthorization and believes we should only use the military when we are in imminent threat.

Politico has a piece out about it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/tim-kaine-clinton-vp-policy-226036

(Did the following on edit before a thumbs thing.)
I can see why Sander's supporters would think he is anti progressive in their yardstick, it is his votes/beliefs on trade, banks, taxes. He is very centrist on those issues to say the least. It might play well with some republicans who do not want Trump but loose Sanders supporters. He favored letting George Bush tax cuts expire but he also favored less taxes for everybody. He also resisted restrictions on banks, which I disagree with, but Clinton would be president and would check that.

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Michael Gerson. He's getting there.

Quote:

"Far from being confused or opportunistic, Trump has a consistent, well-developed view of the universe and his (prominent) place within it. The world is in chaos. Our country is being infiltrated by child-murdering illegal immigrants and “massive . . . flows” of disloyal, unscreened refugees. American communities are overwhelmed by violence, impoverished by unfair trade and betrayed by politicians who refuse to “put America first.” The institutions that are supposed to defend us are dominated by special interests and rigged by elites.

These claims are wrong, exaggerated or cherry-picked in nearly every respect. But the message resonates. A majority of Americans regard their country as being on the “wrong track ” and have for some time. Conservative media and “breaking news”-driven cable networks reinforce this sense of decline and crisis."

He's right to point to the sense of urgency that cable news has inculcated in our culture. And he's right in pointing to the complicity of conservative media's role in the "We're on the edge of doom!" narratives. But he doesn't openly face (here, at least) how Fox has tied those two together so disastrously.

And this sentence is very perceptive:

Quote:

Trump is cultivating a state of panic to increase public tolerance for political risk — in this case, the risk of a candidate who is untested, unprepared, unstable and unfit

A major theme in this column is respect for our evolved institutions. And that respect is not misplaced. As unwieldy as they can be, they are what act as a bulwark against the worst forms of tyranny.

But once again, where Michael fails to be honest in his analysis is in not acknowledging how his party (and the administration he worked in and for) has for decades supported that conservative media he now bemoans - for short-term electoral advantage.

And Michael has played that game himself. When Obama first took office, one of the main right wing media narratives advanced was that Obama wasn't really all that smart or eloquent - he just read from a teleprompter. Gerson, in a column in the WP, joined in pushing that narrative - even given his own role in the Bush white house writing speeches to be read from a teleprompter.

I give Michael a bit of a pass here. It isn't an easy thing to rewire your brain. And he is one of the few, but growing, number of conservative thinkers who recognize, finally, that they must.

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Massive class action suit against the DNC and the Clinton campaign for election fraud due to collusion. Media outlets will be named. Thank you, Julian Assange.

http://usuncut.com/resistance/bernie-sanders-supporters-are-suing-dnc/

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@blatham,

I agree with your entire post, it is exactly right. The following can't be expressed enough, most specifically, from those who can't say enough of "tired of picking between the lesser of two evils." My silent answer has been, "what, so now you are going to knowingly pick the more of the two evils?"

Quote:

Trump is cultivating a state of panic to increase public tolerance for political risk — in this case, the risk of a candidate who is untested, unprepared, unstable and unfit

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@revelette2,

That "lesser of two evils" cliche is pretty dim. Like most cliches, it is just intellectually lazy. And probably romantically delusional to boot.

I should add one thing to that post on Gerson's column. At the end, he pleads again for a third party "savior" - Bill Gates is named, though just hopefully I think.

But Gerson isn't stupid. He knows, likely better than I do, what this would mean for the GOP - a level of turmoil and internecine chaos unlike anything any of us have seen in our lifetimes. The party would surely disintegrate.

But then what? The potential here for some rough beast to arise is not insignificant. Gerson must think that the present situation is so dire for conservatism in America that he would risk this.

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Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson have a must read piece at the Post today. If you don't have their book Winner Take All Politics in your library, shame on you and order it this morning or I'll punch you in the face (but just with lace gloves borrowed from Notorious RBG).

Quote:

Some Republicans have been hoping that Trump’s toxic rhetoric is just a (lamentable) part of the primary campaign that will recede once attention shifts to the general election or to governing, if he’s elected. It is not.

Fast-forward to the day after the presidential election. If Clinton wins, is there any prospect Republican leaders will seek to find common ground? Why would they suddenly see benefit in agreement rather than obstruction? And how could they explain to Republican voters a willingness to compromise with a figure they have relentlessly attacked as a criminal? Congressional Republicans may not be able to “lock her up,” but they will do all they can to discredit her and deny her capacity to govern.

We shouldn’t “normalize” Trump. But we also must recognize that he is in many ways an entirely logical outgrowth of the increasing structural incentives (particularly for Republicans) to treat political opponents as fundamentally illegitimate. Unless we wake up to this reality and start working to change it, we can expect a continuing descent of our politics — and the Party of Lincoln — into demonization, delegitimization and dysfunction. Or worse.

http://wapo.st/2agAItl

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@ehBeth
Here's some data on Kochs/Pence http://bit.ly/2agTyk7

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@Lash,

The system is rigged, and she's Crooked Hillary.

Gee, someone should use those as slogans.

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@Blickers,

Neither are hugely important in terms of the general election, but I do think the VP slot was or should have been more important (at least symbolically) to Berners.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Nothing will staunch the bleeding from the wounds of the Bernie faithful.

Not if you keep on opening the wounds of the Bernie faithful. I am pretty sure that unity involves you not poking us with pointy sticks.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote Blickers:

Quote:

She let Bernie largely have the party platform, she let the centrists have the VP.

Quote Finn:

Quote:

Neither are hugely important in terms of the general election, but I do think the VP slot was or should have been more important (at least symbolically) to Berners.

Perhaps, but Kaine helps in the general election. It used to be the VP selection was made for one reason, to win that person's state. Kaine is a winner that way, Virginia was a red state that voted for Obama twice-exactly the kind of state that Trump must win this time. Kaine will help keep it in the Democratic column. That's big right there. And neighboring North Carolina, another Southern state that voted for Obama in 2008 but not 2012-Kaine's influence will likely help to tip the scales there as well.

Second, Kaine is a white male, and just as Barack Obama needed a white male to run with, so too should the first woman major candidate.

Third, Kaine is the only Catholic candidate on the ballot.

All in all, a strong VP to help with the general election and who has enough experience and knowledge to actually be the President, if something happens to Hillary.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

snood wrote:

Nothing will staunch the bleeding from the wounds of the Bernie faithful.

Not if you keep on opening the wounds of the Bernie faithful. I am pretty sure that unity involves you not poking us with pointy sticks.

Bullshit. That's the same self absorbed whining that wanted Hillary to beg for support; that's still pointing fingers of blame at everyone for Bernie's loss. You're not bleeding because I, or anyone else "poked" you. You're bleeding because alternately crowing about your own purity, whining and bleeding are all the Bernie dead-enders know how to do.

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I have a theory and it may be far-fetched, but I don't think so (primarily because I think most politicians are venal and especially the ones who seek the most power).

Not to take anything away from the Cleveland police but considering what we've seen at Trump rallies this year wasn't it surprising that there was such a small presence of protesters at the GOP convention?

Given what's been going on (especially in terms of cops being killed) and Trump's jumping on the Law & Order theme, I think most of us would agree that violent protests in Cleveland would actually have helped him politically.

Is it so far fetched then to imagine that the Dems used back door access to the professional agitator groups (and at least BLM) to cut a deal that resulted in so little protest activity in Cleveland?

Perhaps the quid pro quo was time on the stage. (I'm still trying to figure out what genius thought giving Michael Brown's mother a spot at the podium was a smart move)

Proof?

Absolutely zero, but there has to be a reason why Cleveland was so peaceful during the GOP convention. It could be entirely due to the good work of the Cleveland PD, but I doubt it.

Prediction: We will see violent protests at the Dem Convention if the 30,000 Berners who have something like 9 permits show up. They've shown they are a fiery group and their passion will be high. Philly police are not exactly celebrated for their restraint in terms of crowd control.

All it would take is one Philly cop roughing up a Berner and the others could explode.

I really do hope that there isn't any violence. Neither Trump nor Clinton becoming president is worth people being injured or killed, but this is the world we live in and we've seen violent protests throughout the primaries. It's hard to believe both conventions will happen without them.

Should be pretty boring inside the hall, and I hope it will be the same outside. Get the thing over with and then move on to the revelation of all of the Clinton Secrets the National Enquirer says the GOP has on hold for her. (Anyone see them? It's a riot!)

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@Blickers,

I didn't argue that Kaine was a bad choice overall (to the contrary), I argued that it was a bad choice if she was interested in mollifying Berners.

Obviously she isn't.

It could backfire on her in this regard, but only if her internal polling is really faulty.

Edit: I think my assessment of Kaine as a solid choice was on another thread.

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This is something that is hard to ignore when it comes to election fraud.

How many examples do you need in order to stop denying reality?

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@reasoning logic,

You listen to one guy, and arrive at a conclusion? No wonder you're ill informed.

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton-obama-trump-and-the-abuse-of-power-1466548914

Will the real authoritarian please stand up?....(elbows Clinton)

Wake up, lemmings.

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@snood,

I am on board with the Democrats Snood. Hillary is on board with the Democrats Snood. You are the one who has to keep taking shots in a war that most of us aren't interested in having.

Hillary is the candidate. I am only talking about this because you keep on taking these meaningless potshots. I have moved on. Can you?

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Is it so far fetched then to imagine that the Dems used back door access to the professional agitator groups (and at least BLM) to cut a deal that resulted in so little protest activity in Cleveland?

About as far fetched as imagining that the GOP used back door access to ISIS to have them stage attacks in Paris and Munich.

Since we are going down that rabbit hole, Orlando seems to be the perfect melding of ISIS and the GOP.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I am on board with the Democrats Snood. Hillary is on board with the Democrats Snood. You are the one who has to keep taking shots in a war that most of us aren't interested in having.

Hillary is the candidate. I am only talking about this because you keep on taking these meaningless potshots. I have moved on. Can you?

You're cracked, man. For this whole election season you've been about a hundred paces behind me, still yelling at me to catch up. The only people who haven't moved on are disgruntled Bernie people who are still bleating about conspiracies, corruption and a stolen election. I am not interested in reading any more mischaractetized, warped nonsense of yours. Enjoy a big smacky helping of ignore.

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When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

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