12
   

Israel's Shame

 
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 03:19 am
@InfraBlue,
Which is what a lot of us have been saying all along.


I don't think even Mossad would kill their own people to start a war, but I'm sure they'd use it as a pretext. There was no investigation, Hamas was blamed from the onset. From The Independent.

Quote:
I was speaking last week to a Syrian Kurd asking him about the current Isis offensive which is taking over eastern Syria, capturing oil-rich Deir Ezzor province and assaulting the Kurdish enclaves in the north. We agreed that, given the international furore in the three weeks after Isis captured Mosul on 10 June, there was astonishingly little reaction to or publicity about Isis's successful new offensive in Syria. The reason for this is that this time international attention is focused on the Israeli bombardment of Gaza.

"Do you think it possible," asked my Syrian friend tentatively, "that Isis might have arranged to have the three Israeli teenagers killed – it certainly has militant cells on the West Bank – knowing that this would provoke an Israeli assault on Gaza and divert attention from its own operations?" I pooh-poohed the idea at the time as one more conspiracy theory based on no real evidence, but thinking it over I am not so sure.

I remember how in June 1982 the Israeli ambassador Shlomo Argov was critically wounded in London by three assassins working for the Abu Nidal movement directed by Iraqi intelligence. The aim, successfully accomplished, was to provoke the Israelis to invade Lebanon and become engaged in a war with Syria which was allied with Iran in the Iran-Iraq war and a hated enemy of Saddam Hussein. Israel knew Iraq was behind the assassination attempt but even so used it as an excuse to invade Lebanon to crush the PLO.

Could somebody in Isis, reputedly filled with former cadres of Saddam's regime, have hatched a somewhat similar plot? For all those ludicrous theories, there are real conspiracies out there.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-truth-about-conspiracy-theories-is-that-some-require-considering-9616863.html
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 04:36 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Could somebody in Isis, reputedly filled with former cadres of Saddam's regime, have hatched a somewhat similar plot? For all those ludicrous theories, there are real conspiracies out there.
u dont have to be much for conspiracy theories to wonder if we are seeing in ISIS the end result of Bushes debaathification plan.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 05:26 am
@hawkeye10,
it's a mistake the allies were keen to avoid in Nazi Germany. You had to be a member of the Ba'th party to get even a minor civil service job. Getting rid of all Ba'th party members destroyed the administrative infrastructure and strengthened the hand of religious extremists.

The West will be dealing with the fallout of Bush's folly for at least the next fifty years or so.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 05:47 am
@BillRM,
Because jtt has it right more often than not when he isn't getting personal?
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 05:52 am
@BillRM,
How many Israelis were killed by Hamas missiles? How many Palestinians were killed by Israeli missiles.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 06:03 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Because jtt has it right more often than not when he isn't getting personal?


99% of JTT's posts are personal. JTT likes to adopt a holier than thou attitude by attacking individuals for something their political leaders have done which they personally have no control over. He also castigates people for wanting to talk about something other than America's war crimes.He is a coward who refuses to divulge his own nationality. He also, (like Oralboy) makes disgusting sexual remarks about other people's children, which is why I have him on ignore.

On the grammar threads he is the worst teacher imaginable, deliberately overcomplicating things in order to confuse the student and make himself look more intelligent.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 06:06 am
@cicerone imposter,
Other than the US in Iraq, Afghanistan?

 http://www.scn.org/ccpi/etw/photographs/BombingA/rashid1-20.jpg

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/etw/photographs/BombingA/ameryia4-16.jpg
Where a mother holding her child were incinerated
http://www.scn.org/ccpi/etw/photographs/BombingA/ameryia5-11.jpg
Child's hand prints

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/etw/photographs/BombingA/ameryia6-14.jpg

corneas from a chldseyes

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/etw/photographs/BombingA/ameryia7-07.jpg

human skin burned to wall



Bombing (Information):

The US/UK has been bombing Iraq more or less continuously since the Gulf War began (200,000+ sorties). Since December 20, 1998, there have been over 6,000 sorties on some 400 targets, at a cost to the US taxpayer of $1,000,000,000 per year (which equals the cost of putting an additional social worker/teacher in every middle and high school in the United States). Our group visited the sites of four bombing attacks:

1) The Al-Ameryia Shelter: Attacked during the Gulf War by two-laser guided bombs five minutes apart. Over 1200 women and children died; there were 14 survivors. Reconnaissance aircraft observed the shelter for three days prior to the attack, and the fresh air vent was targeted. The first bomb created an opening for the second, more powerful bomb. The blast temperature was 4000 degrees F; some children were incinerated and others were boiled alive when internal water pipes burst open. The US government claimed that the building housed military personnel and equipment, but no direct evidence was presented.

2) The Al-Rashid Hotel: On 1/17/93, a cruise missile hit just outside the entrance of the Al-Rashid Hotel. According to concierge (who was present at the time), CNN set up a camera about 30 minutes prior to the attack and then vacated the premises. This concept of "advance warning" was confirmed by a high UN official, who stated that the UN was often "warned off" certain areas. This belies the US claim that bombing raids target anti-aircraft and radar sites that are attacked immediately when aircraft are targeted. At the Al-Rashid, Amira Mekho, a desk clerk, was killed just after emerging from shelter.

3) Baasheqa Village: On 4/30/99, cluster bombs were dropped in a desert area outside Baasheqa village, and a shepherd, Ahmad Jirgis Ayyoub (40), his father Jirgis Ayyoub Sultan (70), and 4 of his sons, Lukman (15), Mohamad (12), Sultan (7) and Murthadi (3) were killed. The aircraft repeatedly passed over the area, and all livestock were also killed. Cluster bombs are anti-personnel weapons and are not typically used against hardened military targets. There was no evidence whatsoever of any military targets in the area, which is an open desert region.

4) Bahzani Village: On 8/23/99 (8 days prior to our visit there) two construction workers, Mufawak Attoo (23) and Shakri Khadher (24), were killed by cluster bombs. They were engaged in house construction, with the house open-roofed and partially completed, when the attack occurred. The house is in a remote area with no obvious military targets.

These photographs were taken in Iraq in August and September of 1999. Unless otherwise noted, the photographer was William J. Thomson. These photographs are copyrighted, and you have permission to use them (at no charge) for any nonprofit purpose related to relieving the suffering of children in Iraq. In any published use, please credit the pictures to "William J. Thomson" or other source, as noted. For other use, or if you need a particular picture at a different resolution, please contact the photographer directly at [email protected].
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 06:08 am
@BillRM,
Being run out one's home nation and having one's women children murdered does do that to one, doesn't it?
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 06:43 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Being run out one's home nation and having one's women children murdered does do that to one, doesn't it?


LOL they do not care about either their women or their children or one they would not keep piling them up on top of missile launching sites and two they would stop the needed to attack those sites by stopping launching the missiles.

Crying over the deaths of the women and the children that are being used as a means of trying to kill other women and children and who husbands and fathers do not care about them is kind of hard.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 07:12 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
LOL they do not care about either their women or their children or one they would not keep piling them up on top of missile launching sites and two they would stop the needed to attack those sites by stopping launching the missiles.


Israeli propaganda, you're starting to sound like a sockpuppet.

The Israelis are the ones killing women and children. I notice you didn't comment on the video I posted that is proof Israeli snipers are targetting civilians. Then again proof and facts are something you've always had a problem with.
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 08:23 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

The Israelis are the ones killing women and children.


The missiles might be a response to the imprisonment of people in Gaza, after the teenagers were killed. However, that labyrinth of attack tunnels were started how long ago? The intent to slaughter Israelis, living near Gaza, was the plan when the first tunnel was conceptualized.

My point is that perhaps an argument can be made that neither side might have the moral high ground. The question might just be which side has the perseverence to continue beyond the opposing side. Or, perhaps, there is some out-of-the-box elegant solution. The closest I can think of one is that Egypt decides to incorporate Gaza into their country. I would much rather be an Arab with Egyptian citizenship, than the citizenship of a made-up national entity, since there never was a country named Palestine. The reason that this might not have been offered before is that Egypt is not stupid, and they might realize that Gaza has a population that might not be of much value to Egypt. If that is true, that should say something about Gaza.

Anyway, arguing in behalf of the Palestinians, when Syria has a more bloody civil war, Iraq is partially under ISIS, Muslim women in the new caliphate will be forced to have genital circumcision, Iran might eventually have a Shia bomb, is all obviously less important, and said with sarcasm, and your focussing on the Palestinians does allow one to enjoy one's retirement better.





oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 08:25 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The Israelis used the murder of the three teens as a pretext to go after Hamas, blaming them for the killings.

Israel did not know who was responsible. All they did was search the usual suspects in a desperate bid to find the kids.

These were not known to be killings. They could well have been kidnappings for all anyone knew.


InfraBlue wrote:
So, they started to kidnap members of Hamas.

The lawful arrest of a criminal is hardly kidnapping.


InfraBlue wrote:
Hamas, as the Israelis expected, started to retaliate with rocket launches into Israel and the Israelis used this as a pretext to kill the Palestinians in Gaza.

Israel is not trying to kill people. They are merely defending themselves from Palestinian aggression.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 08:25 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
This had Mossad's fingerprints smeared all over it.

That is goofy beyond belief.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 08:25 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
The motherfuckers who run Israel clearly have some screws loose....what is their goal here I wonder because by the looks of it it is to be at war forever, and they are doing their best to radicalize their enemy.

Their goal here is to eliminate the tunnels, force the Palestinians to stop firing artillery at Israeli civilians, and prevent the Palestinians from rebuilding.

Can you think of a better plan? It seems like a reasonable plan of action to me.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 08:26 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
exactly....The Jews simply refuse to wise up. Bye Bye goes their reputation for skills in profitable manipulation.

Stereotypes are always best discarded. But what more should they be doing?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 09:17 am
@oralloy,
What more? EASY; return all the Palestinians properties stolen, give them freedom to travel in their own country, tear down all the walls surrounding Palestinian communities, and give them EQUALITY.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 10:10 am
As a longtime armchair strategist and--ahem--wargame champion, I honestly can't see what worthwhile objectives Hamas and Israel are trying to achieve!
Hamas's rockets are a complete waste of time because they rarely hit anything!
And Israel has invaded to destroy Hamas tunnels, but when they've gone back home, Hamas will simply dig new ones, and everybody will be back to square one!
Are Hamas and Israel completely nuts?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 10:10 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
EASY; return all the Palestinians properties stolen, give them freedom to travel in their own country, tear down all the walls surrounding Palestinian communities, and give them EQUALITY.


Sure they will get back their own properties the moment the US return the south west to mexico.

As far as giving them freedom of movement that last time Israel was dumb enough to do so they lost thousands by way of suicide bombings.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 10:13 am
@BillRM,
I'm sure if your property was stolen, your freedoms taken away, your children killed, and you had no legal recourse, that you would just sit by like a sheep~!

Understandable.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2014 10:29 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
And Israel has invaded to destroy Hamas tunnels, but when they've gone back home, Hamas will simply dig new ones, and everybody will be back to square one!

The blockade will be tightened back up, preventing Hamas from receiving the resources that they will need to construct new tunnels.
0 Replies
 
 

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