Why Aren't Pro-Choicer's Screaming Bloody Murder About This?

joefromchicago wrote:

Quote:

Why Aren't Pro-Choicer's Screaming Bloody Murder About This?

Why should they be?

Oh - I don't know. There are only hundreds of pages on this site going on about how the unborn are not humans, should have no rights, should be exterminated if Mommy doesn't want it, are akin to a chicken egg...and so on. Yet your government representatives see fit to charge this fellow with the extermination of a ahem zygote!!!

It seems that the pro-choicers would use this grand opportunity to stand up
for their beliefs and speak out for the poor fellow's rights
(when pertaining to the murder charge against said zygote) -
yet it's eerily silent out there. :wink:

baddog1 wrote:

The law doesn't need to be amended. Here's what it says:

[url=http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903]2903.02 Murder.[/url] (A) No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy. ... (D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.

Under Ohio law, therefore, anyone who "unlawfully terminates another's pregnancy" is guilty of murder.

baddog1 wrote:

Should the laws be amended for pre-birth beings?

Quote:

The law doesn't need to be amended. Here's what it says:

[url=http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903]2903.02 Murder.[/url] (A) No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy. ... (D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.

Under Ohio law, therefore, anyone who "unlawfully terminates another's pregnancy" is guilty of murder.

If I understand Mr. Dog 's question accurately,
he invites comment as to whether or not the legislature 's judgment
was faulty in failing to establish different penalties
for killing a fully developed human,
as distinct from killing a potential future human
that is not yet developed.

In my opinion,
killing a walking, talking, thinking, reasoning human,
who is already having fun,
is a lot worse than killing a fetus.

If I had to vote on this question,
I 'd vote for a lesser criminal penalty for killing a fetus.

( Altho I am usually a very opinionated person, I will admit to entertaining some doubts about this. )

David

joefromchicago wrote:

baddog1 wrote:

The law doesn't need to be amended. Here's what it says:

[url=http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903]2903.02 Murder.[/url] (A) No person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy. ... (D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.

Under Ohio law, therefore, anyone who "unlawfully terminates another's pregnancy" is guilty of murder.

Thanks Joe!

It appears (to the letter of the law) that this fellow would be guilty of the double homicide if he murdered this poor woman an instant after they conceived.
Is this how you read it?

As used in sections 2903.01 to 2903.08, 2903.11 to 2903.14, 2903.21, and 2903.22 of the Revised Code:

(A) "Unlawful termination of another's pregnancy" means causing the death of an unborn member of the species homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another, as a result of injuries inflicted during the period that begins with fertilization and that continues unless and until live birth occurs.

(B) "Another's unborn" or "such other person's unborn" means a member of the species homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another, during a period that begins with fertilization and that continues unless and until live birth occurs.

(C) Notwithstanding divisions (A) and (B) of this section, in no case shall the definitions of the terms "unlawful termination of another's pregnancy," "another's unborn," and "such other person's unborn" that are set forth in division (A) of this section be applied or construed in any of the following manners:

(1) Except as otherwise provided in division (C)(1) of this section, in a manner so that the offense prohibits or is construed as prohibiting any pregnant woman or her physician from performing an abortion with the actual consent of the pregnant woman, with the consent of the pregnant woman implied by law in a medical emergency, or with the approval of one otherwise authorized by law to consent to medical treatment on behalf of the pregnant woman. An abortion that violates the conditions described in the immediately preceding sentence may be punished as a violation of section 2903.01, 2903.02, 2903.03, 2903.04, 2903.05, 2903.06, 2903.08, 2903.11, 2903.12, 2903.13, 2903.14, 2903.21, or 2903.22 of the Revised Code, as applicable. An abortion that does not violate the conditions described in the second immediately preceding sentence, but that does violate section 2919.12, division (B) of section 2919.13, or section 2919.151 , 2919.17, or 2919.18 of the Revised Code, may be punished as a violation of section 2919.12, division (B) of section 2919.13, or section 2919.151 , 2919.17, or 2919.18 of the Revised Code, as applicable.

(2) In a manner so that the offense is applied or is construed as applying to a woman based on an act or omission of the woman that occurs while she is or was pregnant and that results in any of the following:

(a) Her delivery of a stillborn baby;

(b) Her causing, in any other manner, the death in utero of an unborn that she is carrying;

(c) Her causing the death of her child who is born alive but who dies from one or more injuries that are sustained while the child is an unborn;

(d) Her causing her child who is born alive to sustain one or more injuries while the child is an unborn;

(e) Her causing, threatening to cause, or attempting to cause, in any other manner, an injury, illness, or other physiological impairment, regardless of its duration or gravity, or a mental illness or condition, regardless of its duration or gravity, to an unborn that she is carrying.

Effective Date: 08-18-2000

From the time of conception as written in the law.

Quote:

As used in sections 2903.01 to 2903.08, 2903.11 to 2903.14, 2903.21, and 2903.22 of the Revised Code:

(A) "Unlawful termination of another's pregnancy" means causing the death of an unborn member of the species homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another, as a result of injuries inflicted during the period that begins with fertilization and that continues unless and until live birth occurs.

(B) "Another's unborn" or "such other person's unborn" means a member of the species homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another, during a period that begins with fertilization and that continues unless and until live birth occurs.

(C) Notwithstanding divisions (A) and (B) of this section, in no case shall the definitions of the terms "unlawful termination of another's pregnancy," "another's unborn," and "such other person's unborn" that are set forth in division (A) of this section be applied or construed in any of the following manners:

(1) Except as otherwise provided in division (C)(1) of this section, in a manner so that the offense prohibits or is construed as prohibiting any pregnant woman or her physician from performing an abortion with the actual consent of the pregnant woman, with the consent of the pregnant woman implied by law in a medical emergency, or with the approval of one otherwise authorized by law to consent to medical treatment on behalf of the pregnant woman. An abortion that violates the conditions described in the immediately preceding sentence may be punished as a violation of section 2903.01, 2903.02, 2903.03, 2903.04, 2903.05, 2903.06, 2903.08, 2903.11, 2903.12, 2903.13, 2903.14, 2903.21, or 2903.22 of the Revised Code, as applicable. An abortion that does not violate the conditions described in the second immediately preceding sentence, but that does violate section 2919.12, division (B) of section 2919.13, or section 2919.151 , 2919.17, or 2919.18 of the Revised Code, may be punished as a violation of section 2919.12, division (B) of section 2919.13, or section 2919.151 , 2919.17, or 2919.18 of the Revised Code, as applicable.

(2) In a manner so that the offense is applied or is construed as applying to a woman based on an act or omission of the woman that occurs while she is or was pregnant and that results in any of the following:

(a) Her delivery of a stillborn baby;

(b) Her causing, in any other manner, the death in utero of an unborn that she is carrying;

(c) Her causing the death of her child who is born alive but who dies from one or more injuries that are sustained while the child is an unborn;

(d) Her causing her child who is born alive to sustain one or more injuries while the child is an unborn;

(e) Her causing, threatening to cause, or attempting to cause, in any other manner, an injury, illness, or other physiological impairment, regardless of its duration or gravity, or a mental illness or condition, regardless of its duration or gravity, to an unborn that she is carrying.

Effective Date: 08-18-2000

From the time of conception as written in the law.

What's the difference?

parados wrote:

Quote:

As used in sections 2903.01 to 2903.08, 2903.11 to 2903.14, 2903.21, and 2903.22 of the Revised Code:

(A) "Unlawful termination of another's pregnancy" means causing the death of an unborn member of the species homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another, as a result of injuries inflicted during the period that begins with fertilization and that continues unless and until live birth occurs.

(B) "Another's unborn" or "such other person's unborn" means a member of the species homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another, during a period that begins with fertilization and that continues unless and until live birth occurs.

(C) Notwithstanding divisions (A) and (B) of this section, in no case shall the definitions of the terms "unlawful termination of another's pregnancy," "another's unborn," and "such other person's unborn" that are set forth in division (A) of this section be applied or construed in any of the following manners:

(1) Except as otherwise provided in division (C)(1) of this section, in a manner so that the offense prohibits or is construed as prohibiting any pregnant woman or her physician from performing an abortion with the actual consent of the pregnant woman, with the consent of the pregnant woman implied by law in a medical emergency, or with the approval of one otherwise authorized by law to consent to medical treatment on behalf of the pregnant woman. An abortion that violates the conditions described in the immediately preceding sentence may be punished as a violation of section 2903.01, 2903.02, 2903.03, 2903.04, 2903.05, 2903.06, 2903.08, 2903.11, 2903.12, 2903.13, 2903.14, 2903.21, or 2903.22 of the Revised Code, as applicable. An abortion that does not violate the conditions described in the second immediately preceding sentence, but that does violate section 2919.12, division (B) of section 2919.13, or section 2919.151 , 2919.17, or 2919.18 of the Revised Code, may be punished as a violation of section 2919.12, division (B) of section 2919.13, or section 2919.151 , 2919.17, or 2919.18 of the Revised Code, as applicable.

(2) In a manner so that the offense is applied or is construed as applying to a woman based on an act or omission of the woman that occurs while she is or was pregnant and that results in any of the following:

(a) Her delivery of a stillborn baby;

(b) Her causing, in any other manner, the death in utero of an unborn that she is carrying;

(c) Her causing the death of her child who is born alive but who dies from one or more injuries that are sustained while the child is an unborn;

(d) Her causing her child who is born alive to sustain one or more injuries while the child is an unborn;

(e) Her causing, threatening to cause, or attempting to cause, in any other manner, an injury, illness, or other physiological impairment, regardless of its duration or gravity, or a mental illness or condition, regardless of its duration or gravity, to an unborn that she is carrying.

Effective Date: 08-18-2000

From the time of conception as written in the law.

I sure don't understand this situation.
In either case (abortion by Mom or murder by another) the life of a being is terminated.

What's the difference?

I've done a great deal of thinking about the whole murder issue and how to address the issue of the unborn with it.

As I have stated numerous times before in the S&R threads on the related abortion issue, I believe the rights of the unborn are the custody of the mother. If as in this case a mother is murdered, allong with the unborn, these rights were trespassed upon via the mother as a medium.

I believe the mother grants those rights to her unborn at birth, the removal of those rights by an outside force is a violation IMO.

T
K
O

uh...to simplfy: only a mother has the right to choose the fate of the unborn in my opinion. Otherwise, it's murder.

T
K
O

Diest TKO wrote:

uh...to simplfy: only a mother has the right to choose the fate of the unborn in my opinion. Otherwise, it's murder.

T
K
O

Hi Deist:

So if Mommy kills the little one it's OK and not murder, but if anyone else does - it is murder?

Either way - the unborn is purposely terminated for the convenience of another.

Right?