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Hillery, Obama, Edwards and the Democrates

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 09:55 am
Psst, BPB, from the Atlantic article:

Quote:
In a Democratic primary, news that the Clinton campaign is funneling information to Drudge is potentially explosive-few figures inspire more liberal wrath than Drudge. (When I confronted the mole, she confirmed the connection to Drudge, but first asked for anonymity.) Still, Drudge has proved a useful tool for the campaign in framing media coverage. When it became clear that Obama had raised more first-quarter money for the primary race than Clinton had, the Clinton campaign minimized the damage by preemptively leaking its own numbers to Drudge. "Clinton Blows the Field Away" was the headline on an exclusive Drudge story claiming she had raised $36 million. Only later, with much less fanfare, did it become clear that only $19 million would count toward the Democratic primary.

The Clinton campaign has also used Drudge to go on offense. In one example, an aide confirmed that the campaign sent Drudge a link to a story in which Michelle Obama seemed to take a swipe at Hillary Clinton over Bill's infidelity. The story was presented-from Clinton to Drudge to the public-in a manner that was badly out of context, with a link to an exclusive videotape of Michelle Obama's comment. But it nevertheless dominated the news cycle for 24 hours.


By the way, another thought after reading that article (which despite it's publication date seems dated... not particularly surprising seeing how fast things are moving lately)...

After all of those various gaffes -- Obama and Clinton -- what's sticking? Clinton's gaffes about Obama. He's rubber, she's glue. Whether that should be the case or not, it's significant, I think. Similar to what nimh was saying about Huckabee's likability.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 09:57 am
mysteryman wrote:
okie wrote:
MM, it is probably time to find out too if it is her campaign that is spreading rumors of Obama being a Muslim.


I hope it is her campaign spreading those rumors.

Because true or not, it shows that Hillary has a religious bias against the Muslim faith.
And that is definitely not going to help her because it shows that she is a bigot.


that is one of the funniest things I've read here in a long time. Pathetic but hilarious.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 09:59 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
okie wrote:
MM, it is probably time to find out too if it is her campaign that is spreading rumors of Obama being a Muslim.


I hope it is her campaign spreading those rumors.

Because true or not, it shows that Hillary has a religious bias against the Muslim faith.
And that is definitely not going to help her because it shows that she is a bigot.


that is one of the funniest things I've read here in a long time. Pathetic but hilarious.


How is it funny?
If she is spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim, the question is why?
For her to even mention it shows that she is biased against Muslims.
If she wasnt, she wouldnt be mentioning his religion, no matter what that religion is.
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blatham
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:00 am
nimh

It's a wonderful piece, lots of detail. But there's nothing I could spot which alters my notions of either individual or how they might do in the election or how they might succeed in what will be the two fundamental projects of the next presidency - running the country and avoiding/dismantling the rightwing destructo machine.

Was there something you think I'm missing?
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nimh
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:06 am
mysteryman wrote:
How is it funny?
If she is spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim, the question is why?
For her to even mention it shows that she is biased against Muslims.
If she wasnt, she wouldnt be mentioning his religion, no matter what that religion is.

Umm, that's a big "if", the one I bolded here ("If she is spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim"). Do you have any indication at all to base it on, or are you just randomly speculating?

There have indeed been a lot of anonymous emails circulated about Obama supposedly being Muslim, but every report I've seen about them describes them as doing the rounds among conservative communities. So if the spreading of such rumours indicates a degree of religious bigotry, I'd suggest there's where you'd find it.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:10 am
nimh wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
How is it funny?
If she is spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim, the question is why?
For her to even mention it shows that she is biased against Muslims.
If she wasnt, she wouldnt be mentioning his religion, no matter what that religion is.

Umm, that's a big "if", the one I bolded here ("If she is spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim"). Do you have any indication at all to base it on, or are you just randomly speculating?

There have indeed been a lot of anonymous emails circulated about Obama supposedly being Muslim, but every report I've seen about them describes them as doing the rounds among conservative communities. So if the spreading of such rumours indicates a degree of religious bigotry, I'd suggest there's where you'd find it.


I said IF as a direct response to what okie posted.
You should have read that when you read what I wrote.

As for the e-mails coming from the conservative side, I admit that is a possibility also.
But didnt sozobe just post an article that shows the Clinton campaign leaking things to Drudge?
And isnt Drudge considered a "conservative" news source?

So I would say there is a 50-50 chance that the e-mails either came from or were started by the Clinton camp.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:17 am
No one in the media is concerned with anything but ratings so in order to keep people tuning in they can't have an "inevitable" candidate, they need a horse race and if that means they have to take a front runner and start tearing them down to keep things "interesting" then that's what they do, and the electorate allows themselves to be spoon fed any damn thing.

I still think in the end the nomination belongs to Hillary.
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okie
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:18 am
Hillary is craftily spreading information about Obama, and then saying this is what the Republicans will use if Obama is the candidate. Kind of a "slick" maneuver, any wonder why Bill became known as "slick?"
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okie
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:22 am
All it takes is a google and up this comes about a clinton campaign person spreading Obama Muslim rumors.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/12/05/clinton_campaign_volunteer_out.html
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:25 am
You are correct, Okie; Hillary is pulling out some lame maneuvers now that her poll numbers are slipping in early states.

Cycloptichorn
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sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:27 am
Actually (see, it's that annoying nuance thing again), that seems like it was pretty inconsequential -- a lowly volunteer forwarding an email (I've gotten some of those emails too). Not anything that originated with the Clinton campaign.
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okie
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:30 am
To be fair, cyclops, it depends upon whether it is a case of campaign supporters acting unilaterally, or if some of these things are strategies enacted behind the scenes by top Hillary people and Hillary herself, and then she simply fires the campaign worker or disavows it later to absolve herself after the damage is done. I don't know which it is, but I highly suspect at least some of it is designed and intended by her team.
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blatham
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:31 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You are correct, Okie; Hillary is pulling out some lame maneuvers now that her poll numbers are slipping in early states.

Cycloptichorn


[slapping forehead] Oh come on, cyclo. Don't fall for the trick. How many people do you think are working in these campaigns in every precinct in the US? Ya figure Okie is going to suggest that Bush is responsible for anything at all, even that which is done by his vice or cabinet ("we don't know the president knew!).
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:33 am
blatham wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You are correct, Okie; Hillary is pulling out some lame maneuvers now that her poll numbers are slipping in early states.

Cycloptichorn


[slapping forehead] Oh come on, cyclo. Don't fall for the trick. How many people do you think are working in these campaigns in every precinct in the US? Ya figure Okie is going to suggest that Bush is responsible for anything at all, even that which is done by his vice or cabinet ("we don't know the president knew!).


I'm thinking more of the 'Kindergarten President' attack then anything else. That wasn't some random campaigner. Also, Mark Penn has been dropping plenty of bullshit lately, as is his form.

Cycloptichorn
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okie
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:33 am
This is where "character" enters the equation, blatham, and I can't speak for you, but Hillary has never shown her word to have much credibility, so when she disavows this kind of stuff, who knows? This is what we will have to deal with every day with the Clintons.
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blatham
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:37 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
blatham wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You are correct, Okie; Hillary is pulling out some lame maneuvers now that her poll numbers are slipping in early states.

Cycloptichorn


[slapping forehead] Oh come on, cyclo. Don't fall for the trick. How many people do you think are working in these campaigns in every precinct in the US? Ya figure Okie is going to suggest that Bush is responsible for anything at all, even that which is done by his vice or cabinet ("we don't know the president knew!).


I'm thinking more of the 'Kindergarten President' attack then anything else. That wasn't some random campaigner. Also, Mark Penn has been dropping plenty of bullshit lately, as is his form.

Cycloptichorn


The kindergarten thing didn't bother me, other than that it was a poorly thought through way to make that (valid) argument.

But Penn was a dick on the cocaine thing, agreed.
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blatham
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:38 am
okie wrote:
This is where "character" enters the equation, blatham, and I can't speak for you, but Hillary has never shown her word to have much credibility, so when she disavows this kind of stuff, who knows? This is what we will have to deal with every day with the Clintons.


okie

Sorry, but anything you might write or think which includes the word "clinton" isn't going to fall within that broad range of writings/notions that aren't nutty.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:39 am
blatham wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
blatham wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You are correct, Okie; Hillary is pulling out some lame maneuvers now that her poll numbers are slipping in early states.

Cycloptichorn


[slapping forehead] Oh come on, cyclo. Don't fall for the trick. How many people do you think are working in these campaigns in every precinct in the US? Ya figure Okie is going to suggest that Bush is responsible for anything at all, even that which is done by his vice or cabinet ("we don't know the president knew!).


I'm thinking more of the 'Kindergarten President' attack then anything else. That wasn't some random campaigner. Also, Mark Penn has been dropping plenty of bullshit lately, as is his form.

Cycloptichorn


The kindergarten thing didn't bother me, other than that it was a poorly thought through way to make that (valid) argument.

But Penn was a dick on the cocaine thing, agreed.


Those are only a couple of examples of the kinds of things her various proxies have been doing. And it isn't surprising - her once insurmountable leads are not so much so any longer, and that's going to induce high levels of fear in those who have worked a long time for her presidency. This inevitably leads to desperation.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 10:59 am
Yup, we're agreed.
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nimh
 
  1  
Mon 17 Dec, 2007 11:31 am
mysteryman wrote:
I said IF as a direct response to what okie posted.
You should have read that when you read what I wrote.

Um, yes I read that - and? How's that effect anything I said?

My point: speculating all kinds of things about how terrible a person Hillary would be shown to be IF something or other that you have little or no indication of being the case would turn out to be true = facile. Close to a smear, even.

Okie helpfully provided the link to one local volunteer who was caught out doing so and immediately fired. That's pretty thin gruel to go on.

I mean, yeah - IF it turns out that I kill little kittens for fun, it would surely show that I am this and that type of person and have such or so evil motivations, yeah. A meaningless assertion.

Nevertheless: there is one thing here I do want to pick up on, and I'm curious about your answer.

You wrote that if Hillary is spreading rumors that Obama is a Muslim, it would show that she is a bigot. Because for her to even mention it would show that she is biased against Muslims. After all, if she wasnt, she wouldnt be mentioning his religion, no matter what that religion is.

Right? OK, so the conservative folks that are forwarding those emails about Obama being really or secretly Muslim - those are all bigots then too, right?
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