Dating a widower

Why does it hurt you so? His dead wife is a fact. She can't be erased. Like children can't be erased. Unless he's comparing the two of you and/or rubbing her in your face at every opportunity then, you really need to get over it. If you can't get passed it then you simply aren't mature or adult enough to accept that your man had a life before you. Accept this about yourself and move on.

hi
Hurtinggirl, I am not sure of the exact circumstances with your relationship or how long your boyfriend has been a widower but it probably hurts for a lot of reasons. Mostly, one reality is that if she hadn't have died then you would not be with him. It makes me feel strange if I think about that. I feel so fortunate for my boyfriend to be a part of my life and I respect and understand to the level that I can about his grief for his late wife. It is emotional for me when I see that something makes him feel badly or that he misses her. I think it's ok to feel like that. My concern for myself was that I was getting involved and loving someone who was not truly ready to love me. I truly feel like it's ok though. Luckily we talk a lot and are very open with each other about the way he feels about her and his loss and about how we feel about each other... and btw, about how I feel about everything. Does your boyfriend know that you feel badly? Does he talk about her all the time or to the degree that you feel like you need to live up to her or anything like that? I have no idea what I am talking about , really , but what I would suggest is talking about with each other how you feel . If he does love you too then I am sure he will be willing to understand that you feel the way you do.

to eoe
Hi Eoe,

It is probably difficult to understand the unique position a girlfriend or wife of a widower is in for someone who has not been in that place. I, and I am sure Hunrtingirl, realize that my boyfriend has had a past life, but like I mentioned in my last post, if his wife had not died, he would still be with her and I would not be with him. This brings up a weird mix of emotions. I think it's just human nature to feel certain things. I am truly ok with him talking about his late wife and even talking about they way he loved her.. in many ways it's endearing... but like you said, if he is rubbing it in her face .. or especially comparing Hurtingirl to his late wife... then that is very different and cause for hurt. It could also be a sign that he is not ready for another relationship... which was my concern for my relationship when I first posted my question. Since that time I have figured out that it IS ok for me and my boyfriend and that he is ok... Hurtingirl, that is something that you might need to visit and explore in your relationship.

He treats me very well, tells me he loves me, never would rub his wife in my face. She comes up in normal conversation. But in the first few months there were some turbulent discussions that have left some hurts. Everything of hers was still in the house. He was dragging his feet cleaning it out- finally we had an outburst and he got it done in pretty short order. Of course, there are still things around and each one I come across gives me a heart pang.

I know he loved her and he wouldn't be a worthwhile man if he didn't still-- I just want to be the number one in his life and I"m not sure I ever will be. He had 2 wives die on him. The second was only 3 years and she died of cancer. During that turbulent discussion he mentioned how 'perfect and marvelous' that relationship was. OF course it was-- they never got past the honeymoon. Things about his first wife don't bother me at all- but getting involved when he was still mourning the second one may have been a mistake.

I know I have to adjust my attitude- that there are things I"m just plain jealous about, like a teenager. She got the lovely wedding, the honeymoon, got to buy a house with him and decorate it together. He's mentioned living together eventually, but I have to move into their marriage home, and I"ll have to use a lot of her stuff. He doesn't think he willl marry again-- like, what? I'm not worth it like his other wives were? He moved out her stuff, but the pictures on the walls, he blew up about. I've decided that he's done plenty and its not my house and may never be , so its not my place to ask him to remove any more. I just try not to look at things.
More later- if you can stand it!

This may sound insulting and I'm sorry about that but let's be honest. Every man is not for every woman and vice versa.

Hurtinggirl--

Welcome to A2K.

Vent away. Competing with an angel isn't easy.

Hurtingirl

Sorry it is so difficult for you. That is a hard situation. He probably is reluctant to marry again.. not because you are not good enough ... but maybe because he is just afraid to lose you. Has it been a long time since his second wife died?
It is hard, to feel like you are maybe competing with his last late wife. I can understand why you would feel like that especially if he talks about how GREAT the relationship was. I think it's normal to feel jealous in some way of that. I think there is a tendency in general for people not to understand how someone could be jealous of that... people replied things to my original post about my boyfriend calling me his late wife's name during sex.. that made me feel like they thought I was so inconsiderate and mean for even feeling bad about that happening. I couldn't help feeling bad about that. It hurt my feelings just like maybe the way your boyfriend might refer to his late wife as being so great... Just be careful not to end up feeling like you constantly have to compete with her memory. That probably won't be good for you and probably won't make you very happy. He may just need more time to heal too. Have you considered counseling?

ryry02

Its perfectly understandable that you were hurt-- and you were smart enough to question yourself about it- you didn't just go nuts. We all want to be #1 in our men's lives, which is why women who are dating widowers have it harder. Our men HAD a #1.
I don't blame my BF when I find something and feel a pain-- but I'd like it to stop happening. its no fun.
A topic came up with him yesterday- I am selling my house and there may be some lag time between when I get out of my house and into an apartment. I may need somewhere to stay and he wants me to stay with him. I told him I just can't- that there are too many little landmines around. He knew what I meant, and it bothered him, but we didn't get time to talk. Now I have a good opening to talk to him about it when he gets back from his business trip.

Sometimes some strident person replies to a statement like that by saying that I should tell him what I want, and insist. Well, its not my house , its HIS. He cleaned up tons of stuff, and he's a typical guy- he doesn't notice every little thing, and he's even a little mystified about why it would bother me to find her hairbands under the bathroom sink. I"m trying to find a balance between reducing my odds of finding her stuff and not driving him crazy.

Hurtingirl said -
But in the first few months there were some turbulent discussions that have left some hurts. Everything of hers was still in the house. He was dragging his feet cleaning it out- finally we had an outburst and he got it done in pretty short order. Of course, there are still things around and each one I come across gives me a heart pang.

'He was dragging his feet cleaning it out.' This was nine months to a year from when she died? He had every right to drag his feet, in my opinion.
Mourning can be a long process. Your being hurt by his slowness in mourning makes it all about you, and it really isn't.

Hello, hurtingirl. Welcome to A2K.

To be honest, I'm a bit mystified by it too. Do you have short hair? If you find her hair bands then go ahead and use them. I'm fairly certain he wouldn't object (even if he noticed). I do think you're looking for ghosts to battle where maybe there are no ghosts.

you're right ossobuco-- he did have the right to drag his feet. The situation was that I was not comfortable in his bed with the books his wife was reading before she died on the nighttable next to me. My point to him was that if he wants me in his house and his bed, he has to make it comfortable for me to be there. He agreed. He had the choice of not moving a thing, and not having me in his house.

I don't mean this as harsh as it may sound, but if he was mourning so much that he couldn't clean out the place, then he had no business dating and bringing me to his home. I felt perfectly justified in complaining. I wish I had just met someone who was long away from their wife's death and didn't have to deal with this-if I understood where he was from day 1 maybe I wouldn't have gone out with him. But I would have missed a really wonderful man!

It is hard to be in your position and thank you for saying that I had a right to feel badly too. It sounds like you have fallen in love with someone who is in a difficult place. That really stinks. It may be ok over time. It does seem like he was mourning still quite a bit when you first started seeing him. But, he did clean things out... it may not be that he can't clean out the rest of the things ( except I think you mentioned pictures that he refused) It may just be that he hasn't gotten down on his hands and knees to search for every little thing. My BF's house is the house he lived in with his late wife too... He has redone a lot of the house or is in the process of it because he is going to sell it.. but there are still some things of his late wife's around. Not her clothes in the closet or anything big like that.. but just small things that get forgotten.. Like maybe the hair bands under the sink. I really don't feel uncomfortable being there at all though. He still has some pictures of her... I think that's normal. I am sure he will always have pictures of her.. I guess I would expect him to. It sounds like your BF cares a lot about you. Do you spend time at your house? I know you said that you are trying to sell it.. but maybe that is more even ground?

This may sound weird, but I actually like hanging around his house better. Downstairs, I"m pretty comfortable- great kitchen, living room. we have a good time. Usually things are great, and he's such a great guy. I think I can talk to him about it. This wouldn't be a big emotional thing- especially since it already came up in conversation. I think he has this idea that if we decide to live together that I"m just going to bring my clothes and toothbrush over and thats it! I think he needs to understand that I"d want to redecorate to make it my home too. As long as he's unable to accept that, he's not ready for it anyway.

I think you are right, if he is not willing to let you feel comfortable where you live then he might not be ready for that. Maybe he will be in time. How long have you been together?

We've been together 7 months. He DID clean out the house initially after our 'turbulent discussion'. I"d say 95% of the stuff is gone. I"m just wondering if that last 5% is the stuff he doesn't want to let go of. Guess I"ll find out. I"m feeling pretty good about it all right now-- hope it stays that way.

Not the same kind of relationship, obviously - but comparable perhaps in terms of grieving and what it entails - my mother died when I was 24, and my sister was 28.

After her death, we kept on her house with everything in it for .. yeah, for about nine months. It was comforting to still be able to go back there.

Then we sold the house, and moved her things out. In retrospect, I think it was too early.

In our own apartments, we still have things that belonged to her. Not just practical things - pots and pans and the like - but things that allow us to still share a bit of her presence in our lives.

hurtingirl - I can well imagine the discomfort of sleeping with your boyfriend, and the book his late wife was reading was still on the nighttable. Thats extreme.

You're right to some extent - "if he was mourning so much that he couldn't clean out the place, then he had no business dating and bringing me to his home."

Though on the other hand, there was two of you when you got involved. You got involved with someone who was still very much in the grieving stage. It seems wrong to get involved with someone like that, and then after a few months give him an ultimatum to 'clean all her stuff out' or lose you.

But I have a bigger problem when I read your post. Because yes, of course one would not want to have the book that his late wife was reading still on the nighttable when you sleep there - thats just creepy. Thats common sense. But from what you are writing here, you have gone far, far beyond that.

You say that he has cleant out "95% of the stuff". The "stuff" meaning his late wife's possessions, I assume - the many little and large things that remind him of her, cherished stuff included, I'm sure. Thats a LOT already to have pushed for after just seven months in a relationship - perhaps unreasonably much.

Of course he did it largely voluntarily, after just the one "turbulent discussion". What remains unclear is what you demanded, exactly, in that discussion. To not have her stuff around everywhere? To not have it in your face? Or to have the house cleansed of all of her things?

Because that would be, I think, completely unreasonable. Here was a woman he loved, cherished, deeply, and spent a large part of his life with. She will be around still in his heart, and his life, for the rest of his life. Of course he will want to keep at least some things of her around! Some items that remind him particularly of her, or that she was especially fond of.. things you wouldnt want to box away in the basement.

I guess thats my contribution.. if you're "just wondering if that last 5% is the stuff he doesn't want to let go of", then, please, assume that he will indeed want to keep at least 5% of her things, yes, as part of remembering her, grieving for her - and respect that. Because even when you are ready for new paths in life, the grieving doesnt, and shouldnt, ever stop entirely - it will be a part of him forever, it's only natural. Having to respecting that is something that comes by definition with getting involved with a widower. And surely, if he cleared out 95% of her things for you, how much of a threat or block can the remaining 5% still be?

[size=7]thanks, nimh, I was trying to figure out how to say that[/size]

This is very true. However, after time, (and I know this because I lost my father who I was very close to when I was 19) it should not be all consuming. He should be able to live on but remember her however it is that he will. Hurtingirl needs to be conscious of the difference between it being a part of his life and it defining his life. I agree, it is completely natural and expected for him to want to hold on to things of his late wife's for his memories of her. On the other hand, if it is a lot of things that he has an unnatural attachment to because he has not moved on enough to put himself in another relationship with Hurtingirl... then maybe the grief is continuing to define his life rather that be a part of it.

I think you were also right in saying : But sometimes it's hard to realize that until after the fact. Especially if he is a great guy.

What remains unclear is what you demanded, exactly, in that discussion

You're right in that losing a parent or sibling and losing a wife are different. But you also make some good points and questions.

I didn't demand anything in that discussion. I was upset and the fact that I was upset made him upset. I told him that his wife's personal stuff made me very uncomfortable. The book, the toiletries in the bathroom, her clothes there in the closet, her bathroom on the bathroom door, the lovey dovey pictures of them - the intimate stuff. I told him that I really couldn't come there to his bed under those circumstances--- keep in mind that I didn't know about any of this stuff until we were dating awhile and I was hooked on him-- we didn't fall into bed on the first date. I also didn't know about how recently his wife died until we had a few dates- it just didn't come up.

Yes, there will always be things of hers around. She picked out beautiful dishes for the kitchen. However, the picture of the 2 of them cuddled up on the couch simply does not cut it. Another item-- he had 2 wives die. There are NO things from his first wife around-- his second wife didn't want them. I'm not talking about things around the house-- I"m talking about those intimate personal things.
Maybe its less the actual items and more that I know there is still grieving going on and wonder what these items mean to him.

I always forget!!!
Thank you all so much for your insight. It's been helpful and kind. I'd love to hear some of your stories-- I assume at least some of you are in the same boat as ryry02 and I are.