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a too complicated sentence for me to understand

 
 
blanche
 
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 06:12 am
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,255 • Replies: 22
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 06:22 am
i have thought this sentence for several days but failed to understand it completely
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 08:20 am
some people have had their flighths over my post but left no trace of wings in my post. i am very sad.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 08:27 am
More context would be good.

This isn't "The Making of Ashenden" again, is it?

Roughly:

If there are a thousand people in this country (America, probably) who are 100 times richer than the narrator, that's OK. 13 or 14 million dollars is still a lot of money, and the narrator has 13 or 14 million dollars.

Plus, he holds no hard feelings against those extremely rich people, the ones who bought stocks when they were very cheap and then, as the stocks rose, became very rich.
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 08:52 am
it seems that you are very familiar with that article,doesn't it? i am an english major and trying to translate this article into Chinese.it is a rather tough task, but i don't want to give up halfway.thank you for your response.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:05 am
I think it's a short story or a book, not an article.

We're familiar with it because a lot of people from your class (at least two others) have been asking questions about it here on Able2Know.com. It's an astoundingly bad piece of writing to assign to people trying to learn English, IMO.
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:11 am
i think over and over again about your explanation,and now i feel you are really helpful. i am obliged to you.if i make myself sound rude, please forgive me.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 09:13 am
No, you didn't sound rude, blanche, don't worry. I'm glad I could help.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 10:35 pm
blanche wrote:
some people have had their flighths over my post but left no trace of wings in my post. i am very sad.


Blanche, your words are poetry.
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 03:18 am
stuh505, thank you.in fact,I borrowed the sentence from Tagore.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 05:58 pm
"I leave no trace of wings in the air,
but I am glad I have had my flight "

To be honest, I find your adaptation of the concept to be more poignant!
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 10:12 pm
is it a prayer pattern?
Let's enjoy ourselves, I say; let's have fun. Lord, let us live in the sand by the surf of the sea and play till cows come home. We'll have a house on the Vineyard and a brownstone in the Seventies and a pied-à-terre in a world capital when something big is about to break.
is this a prayer pattern?I have never prayed,so I am not familiar with prayer.does 'sand' mean a beach?almost every word the author uttered confused me.can'I say' be omitted?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 06:33 am
This is supposed to mimic conversational speech patterns, like if the author was speaking into a tape recorder and then wrote down every word he'd said.

"I say" can be omitted. It's included for rhythm, and to emphasize the "let's have fun."

"Sand" (as well as "by the surf of the sea,") refers to a beach, yes.

He's saying let's have fun by having one house on the beach (in a place called Martha's Vineyard), one house in New York City (in a certain part of the city, where street numbers are in the seventies), and a little apartment overseas, in a major city that's about to have something important happen. ("When something big is about to break" could also refer to getting away from NYC if something bad is about to happen there.)
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 08:15 am
but why he mention 'lord','lord' means 'God',right? does he like calling lord while speaking? maybe my question is kind of childish,i doubt. i feel this paragraph is rather difficult to translate because i am not sure in what tone the narrator spoke. by the way,my teacher once told me many foreigners are very kind, and i think you are among them, thank you for helping once more, Sozobe.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 08:21 am
Lord means God, yes, but it's a term that can be used conversationally without being a prayer. For example, I am not religious, but I might say, "Oh Lord, it's hot out there today!!" That's equivalent to "Wow, it's hot!" It's not necessarily religious at all.

"Lord, let us," is a typical beginning to a prayer or benediction, yes, and the author is playing with that I think, but I don't think it's a literal prayer.

The tone of this piece -- what I've read of it -- is breezy, conversational, stream-of-consciousness. It's trying to be playful and irreverent. (It doesn't always succeed, in my opinion.)
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 08:53 am
(Forgive me for my digression. Which university are you from Madame Blanche? It seems to me very interesting that this kind of material is taught in my country.)

BTW, the sense of foreignness does not in any way increase or decrease kindness. Kind people may always be greeted with kindness.
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 09:34 am
J-B,why do you use "madame" to address me? i am not so old. i know we are from the same country.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 03:57 pm
Re: is it a prayer pattern?
Let's enjoy ourselves, I say; let's have fun. Lord, let us live in the sand by the surf of the sea and play 'till the cows come home. We'll have a house on the Vineyard and a brownstone in the Seventies and a pied-à-terre in a world capital when something big is about to break.

-----------------

"Lord, let us" is a preface to the sentence that adds no technical semantic meaning. Instead, it is used give information about the tone and personality of the speaker. This itself is not a prayer, but as you note, the wording is reminiscent of prayer...and I think this is done intentionally to give the reader a hint that the speaker/writer makes prayer a part of their life. It increases the imagery.

This style of sentence is common in English literature. Basically, the author describes a scene with many irrelevant details and often confusing structure. The details are not meant to be important, and are used simply to guide your imagination. By noting a few specific details and place names, everyone will get a similar mental image, but also different because it relies on one's own personal experiences and opinions of the things he mentions.

If you do not understand all of the individual details, again, it does not matter. Most people who read it will not. For instance, I have no idea what a "pied-a-terre" is...so this part doesn't add much for me. But to some people, it will. I don't think it's expected that every single detail mean something to the reader...but I can still get a general sense of "feeling" from reading it.

For this reason, you could almost say that it has no translation. It's sort of like trying to translate a poem that rhymes in one language into another language where it no longer rhymes, while maintaining the rhythm. It can't be done.
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blanche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 May, 2007 11:34 pm
It is a great challenge for me to understand this short story and then translate it still maintaining its original tone. I don't like reading this style of writing,but I have no choice but to follow my teacher's demand.I don't know why these days the writers are always trying to write something that his readers have to make their own interpretations. For example,Mr.T.S.Eliot is very popular today, and he is quite good at writing some codes that for me, need pain to decipher.I don't know why my teacher ask us to read him.I wish all our reading materials can be like the works of Somerset Maugham. thank you for helping me solve these terrible problems.
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 May, 2007 06:39 am
Blanche,

I was only inspired by the french note raised by your name "blanche" when I was saying "madame". :wink: Sorry if I have offended you.

I love Moon and 6 Pence by Maugham. It was one of the enlightment books of me.

I suggest two things. Try only to understand the general tone and underlying sentiment, without caring too much about the specifics. And then try to write a novel centering mostly on your own thoughts and understanding, with only superficial understanding of the original's details.

I could think no sensible reason for why your teacher should ask you to translate this paragraph.

If it is for learning a language, this assignment is surely a wrong choice. Even though We may be all wrong on saying this, it's still necessary to point it out and challenge your professor if you really feel wrong.

If it is for appreciation of a literary work, my best advice is, say what you know how to say. If you could understand only to this point, then just to this point. This is why I suggest you to make a "translation" from your point of view and with your own level of understanding. Then the best thing to do might just be to ask your professor how he or she appreciates this work, and why chose this work. Then you will find whether it is you who just lack something in study, or your professor is just so insensible a person.
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