Jerry Falwell dead

nimh wrote:

Eorl wrote:

stlstrike3 wrote:

Jerry Falwell was a sick, hate-filled bigot. I don't see any reason that we can't rejoice ....

Because rejoicing at a mans death might make you a sick hate-filled bigot?

I know, I know....but, I'm just saying......

I think pretty much most all of us would have rejoiced, at the time, in Hitler's death. Or Stalin's.

If that hunch of mine is correct, then we're not really disputing a question of principle here, despite pretensions of such. Just whether Falwell was bad enough to warrant rejoicing.

It's pretty much as if I were to rejoice at the passing of ... oh, I don't know ... Michael Moore. And while I might think he's a huge bag of pustulence (and I do), I don't hate him enough to dance on his grave -- nor does he warrant such hate from me.

I am constantly amazed at the hate leftists have for those who do not share their views.

Ticomaya wrote:

nimh wrote:

Eorl wrote:

stlstrike3 wrote:

Jerry Falwell was a sick, hate-filled bigot. I don't see any reason that we can't rejoice ....

Because rejoicing at a mans death might make you a sick hate-filled bigot?

I know, I know....but, I'm just saying......

I think pretty much most all of us would have rejoiced, at the time, in Hitler's death. Or Stalin's.

If that hunch of mine is correct, then we're not really disputing a question of principle here, despite pretensions of such. Just whether Falwell was bad enough to warrant rejoicing.

It's pretty much as if I were to rejoice at the passing of ... oh, I don't know ... Michael Moore. And while I might think he's a huge bag of pustulence (and I do), I don't hate him enough to dance on his grave -- nor does he warrant such hate from me.

I am constantly amazed at the hate leftists have for those who do not share their views.

I don't hate him because I do not share his views. This is the United States of America -- founded, not on the "Christian" principles the right wants us to believe, but on secular ideals, so that all are free to pursue happiness in their own right... I believe in that right for all people. Whether or not they agree with me.

But the problem with pigs like Falwell is that they feel it is their god-given duty to interfere with other peoples' idea of being happy when it doesn't conform to their own self-imposed rules. He couldn't be happy to live and let live. And he made sure to take millions of American Christians with him.

If it made him happy to sit at home and shovel down fried chicken and gravy in front of the TV whilst downing an extra pint of Edy's, and then proceeding to pop the Viagra and pretend to enjoy intercourse with his cow wife... then so be it.

But all I ask in return is to kindly leave me to my devices to find what's going to make me happy. I tried Jesus, and it didn't work. So go away.

Ticomaya wrote:

nimh wrote:

Eorl wrote:

stlstrike3 wrote:

Jerry Falwell was a sick, hate-filled bigot. I don't see any reason that we can't rejoice ....

Because rejoicing at a mans death might make you a sick hate-filled bigot?

I know, I know....but, I'm just saying......

I think pretty much most all of us would have rejoiced, at the time, in Hitler's death. Or Stalin's.

If that hunch of mine is correct, then we're not really disputing a question of principle here, despite pretensions of such. Just whether Falwell was bad enough to warrant rejoicing.

It's pretty much as if I were to rejoice at the passing of ... oh, I don't know ... Michael Moore. And while I might think he's a huge bag of pustulence (and I do), I don't hate him enough to dance on his grave -- nor does he warrant such hate from me.

I am constantly amazed at the hate leftists have for those who do not share their views.

I don't hate him because I do not share his views. This is the United States of America -- founded, not on the "Christian" principles the right wants us to believe, but on secular ideals, so that all are free to pursue happiness in their own right... I believe in that right for all people. Whether or not they agree with me.

But the problem with pigs like Falwell is that they feel it is their god-given duty to interfere with other peoples' idea of being happy when it doesn't conform to their own self-imposed rules. He couldn't be happy to live and let live. And he made sure to take millions of American Christians with him.

If it made him happy to sit at home and shovel down fried chicken and gravy in front of the TV whilst downing an extra pint of Edy's, and then proceeding to pop the Viagra and pretend to enjoy intercourse with his cow wife... then so be it.

But all I ask in return is to kindly leave me to my devices to find what's going to make me happy. I tried Jesus, and it didn't work. So go away.

Discussion about this country's secular beginnings is really for another thread.

Have you not listened to what these people's ultimate goal is? A theocracy. "Restoration of Christian principles to the government". You know what that means? Criminalization of homosexuality. Discrimination against non-Christians.

My life already IS impacted by the Christian right's influence on our laws. Why the hell can't I get married (I'm gay btw).

Pat Robertson has been quoted as saying that he feels its the governments' obligation to punish homosexuality with the death penalty.

THIS is why it's a problem. THIS is why I care. THIS is why they have to be stopped. THIS is where there is something to be angry about.

THIS is why I'm glad the man is dead.

You choose to be an atheist ...

Ticomaya wrote:

You choose to be an atheist ...

Athiests don't choose to be that way. We just don't suffer from the delusion that allows us to believe in fairies.

Ticomaya wrote:

You choose to be an atheist ...

Athiests don't choose to be that way. We just don't suffer from the delusion that allows us to believe in fairies.

Wilso wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

You choose to be an atheist ...

Athiests don't choose to be that way. We just don't suffer from the delusion that allows us to believe in fairies.

Forgive the use of the term, but "amen".

We all start out being atheists. Only a few of us enlightened enough to see past our childhood indoctrination have broken the shakles free.

And the rest of y'all are jealous.

Pat Robertson has been quoted as saying that he feels its the governments' obligation to punish homosexuality with the death penalty.

THIS is why it's a problem. THIS is why I care. THIS is why they have to be stopped. THIS is where there is something to be angry about.

THIS is why I'm glad the man is dead.

You were born an atheist? You have no choice in your beliefs, is that what you are saying?

Ticomaya wrote:

You were born an atheist? You have no choice in your beliefs, is that what you are saying?

No, I don't think beliefs are a matter of 'choice'. My innate sense of logic refuses to allow me belief in a god. I could go to church every day, but that couldn't make me believe in god. I could get on my knees and bob my head up and down like demented parrot, but that won't make me believe in allah. No, I don't have any choice.

Wilso wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

You were born an atheist? You have no choice in your beliefs, is that what you are saying?

No, I don't think beliefs are a matter of 'choice'. My innate sense of logic refuses to allow me belief in a god. I could go to church every day, but that couldn't make me believe in god. I could get on my knees and bob my head up and down like demented parrot, but that won't make me believe in allah. No, I don't have any choice.

Yet if you maintain one has no choice in whether to believe or not, the conclusion you must reach -- using your "innate sense of logic" -- therefore, is that whether one believes in God or not is not a function of their raging intellect, but some other essence they are born with. After all, you have a choice in whether to believe what you think your sense of logic is telling you. But many people have a lack of faith at one point in their lives, which later changes as they are "born again." I think for many the easy position is to be a skeptic, while the very much harder position is to have a personal faith in God.

But discussion about faith is really for another thread.

I think "faith" = "belief without evidence" is the real cop out.

Just think. If you woke up tomorrow and had absolutely no knowledge of the world except for the books on the library shelf, what are you really going to believe? Evidence-based concepts of the world? Or superstitious, poorly written bronze aged texts who's validity is largely indistinguishable from tales of the Greek Gods?

stlstrike3 wrote:

I think "faith" = "belief without evidence" is the real cop out.

But that's really what it's all about, isn't it? You are stuck with this regardless of your personal views on the matter.

Quote:

Just think. If you woke up tomorrow and had absolutely no knowledge of the world except for the books on the library shelf, what are you really going to believe? Evidence-based concepts of the world? Or superstitious, poorly written bronze aged texts who's validity is largely indistinguishable from tales of the Greek Gods?

I'll tell you what, I'll have faith that God exists, and you believe there's no such Being. I'm not trying to convert you to Christianity. Why are you so bent on trying to convert Christians to athiesm, secularism, agnosticsm, or whatever your cause is? Weren't you the one bellyaching yesterday about not interfering with other peoples' idea of being happy? Why don't you be an athiest quietly?

I'll be an atheist quietly when my public tax dollars stop going for things like "Faith-Based Initiatives" (what is it, like $2.1 billion that's been handed out to churches?!?!), when we stop fighting a holy war, and when I see the scientific progress that our country should be embarking on (i.e. stem cell research) allowed a clear path to proceed upon... a road, by the way, the Christian Right refuses to stop taking massive, smelly dumps on.

Wilso wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

You were born an atheist? You have no choice in your beliefs, is that what you are saying?

No, I don't think beliefs are a matter of 'choice'. My innate sense of logic refuses to allow me belief in a god. I could go to church every day, but that couldn't make me believe in god. I could get on my knees and bob my head up and down like demented parrot, but that won't make me believe in allah. No, I don't have any choice.

Yet if you maintain one has no choice in whether to believe or not, the conclusion you must reach -- using your "innate sense of logic" -- therefore, is that whether one believes in God or not is not a function of their raging intellect, but some other essence they are born with.

stlstrike3 wrote:

I'll be an atheist quietly when my public tax dollars stop going for things like "Faith-Based Initiatives" (what is it, like $2.1 billion that's been handed out to churches?!?!), when we stop fighting a holy war, and when I see the scientific progress that our country should be embarking on (i.e. stem cell research) allowed a clear path to proceed upon... a road, by the way, the Christian Right refuses to stop taking massive, smelly dumps on.

So, in other words, you are a hypocrite. Pretty standard for leftists, I've noticed.

By all means, continue your crusade. But you really ought not pretend you are not offending anyone with your antics, while you scream about others offending you.

Ticomaya wrote:

Wilso wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

You were born an atheist? You have no choice in your beliefs, is that what you are saying?

No, I don't think beliefs are a matter of 'choice'. My innate sense of logic refuses to allow me belief in a god. I could go to church every day, but that couldn't make me believe in god. I could get on my knees and bob my head up and down like demented parrot, but that won't make me believe in allah. No, I don't have any choice.

Yet if you maintain one has no choice in whether to believe or not, the conclusion you must reach -- using your "innate sense of logic" -- therefore, is that whether one believes in God or not is not a function of their raging intellect, but some other essence they are born with.

Yes, yes, yes. It's quite well documented. I can't remember the terminology used, but a section of the brain has been identified that suggests we are pre-programmed to believe in something. Read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.