20 Years Going Down The Tubes...

Stuh- it's nothing to do with hot and sexy and pretty and when you've been married twenty years you might understand that.

Her personality has also obviously changed. She used to be interested in intimacy and now she's not. And I'm not just talking about physical intimacy- I'm also talking about the fact that she makes herself unavailable emotionally by parking herself in front of the tv when she has free time away from work.
You know- men pull this stuff too- it's not only women. But the message is, "I'm making myself unavailable to you," through work, pub night, other interests, whatever it might be.

If someone is deliberately making themselves unappealing and unavailable for physical intimacy in a relationship (dirty, smelly, and gross- as opposed to clean- not to mention hot and sexy and pretty), there's an issue.

He obviously still finds her attractive though she's twenty years older than she used to be. But he can't get past the body odor and the toothlessness. I think she's doing it for a reason. He should not feel guilty about trying to find out what that reason is.

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stuh, If their marriage was based only on "attraction," the marriage was shallow to begin with.

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Sorry for doing a dive on the thread right away. I should know better.

Back, paying attention.

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aidan, yeah...I hear you. I guess I instinctively felt slightly defensive about the cleanliness issue because I've felt the opposite before -- one of the reasons that I left one of my ex's is because she was too annoying about that. I consider myself pretty clean, I always shower every morning, brush and floss twice a day, wear clean clothes (cept I wear jeans and sweatshirts more than once without washing which I think is pretty normal)...but she would bug me saying I needed to take a second shower or wash my hands all the freaking time and I just felt like...who cares? There are germs in life, get over it. However, now that I think about this particular case in more detail....not showering for 4 days in a row? That is really gross. Her hair must be a grease farm...and I'm surprised she doesn't get terrible breakouts from all the oil that must build up on her skin.

cicerone, well, I do get the feeling that their marriage may have been based mostly on attraction...but that it was working fine for them. so, you can call it shallow, but if its enough for them to be happy, then who are you to look down on them?

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aidan, yeah...I hear you. I guess I instinctively felt slightly defensive about the cleanliness issue because I've felt the opposite before -- one of the reasons that I left one of my ex's is because she was too annoying about that. I consider myself pretty clean, I always shower every morning, brush and floss twice a day, wear clean clothes (cept I wear jeans and sweatshirts more than once without washing which I think is pretty normal)...

Yeah, that sounds entirely reasonable.

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but she would bug me saying I needed to take a second shower or wash my hands all the freaking time and I just felt like...who cares? There are germs in life, get over it.

Probably a good call- if she was that obsessive about your hygeine- imagine how she'd have been with your kids if you had any- I've seen those kind of mothers in action- talk about a nightmare.

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However, now that I think about this particular case in more detail....not showering for 4 days in a row? That is really gross. Her hair must be a grease farm...and I'm surprised she doesn't get terrible breakouts from all the oil that must build up on her skin.

I wouldn't even let her sleep in the same bed- much less want to touch her. But there's some reason she's doing it....people don't make these kind of statements/changes without a reason.

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I wouldn't even let her sleep in the same bed- much less want to touch her. But there's some reason she's doing it....people don't make these kind of statements/changes without a reason.

Well there's where my hesitancy comes from. Maybe you're right, but maybe not. I haven't heard enough of the situation yet to be convinced that this is a result of a deeper problem. I think it may simply be that she is tired of having to spend hours prepping herself to look pretty every day, she's stressed out, and now she just wants to relax in comfort when she gets home.

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I've a variety of friends in California and here in the south west who are not doing the shower shower shower thing, for mixed reasons.

As a child, then a surburban middle class child, that being kind of a life highlight, I bathed at best twice a week. I didn't know anything about showers until we got a house in 1958.

I'm no judge, but a lot of our raining on seems extreme.

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And I guess "comfort" is a relative term.

I don't feel comfortable when I know I'm smelly and dirty- but maybe that's just me.

I think the bigger issue for me is how it seemingly has no affect on the wife's "comfort" level knowing that she is making her partner uncomfortable with her change in habits.

Maybe her own comfort has become more important to her than his. Maybe the cooperative spirit of their marriage has broken down -because marriage is supposed to be about cooperation with and attentiveness to the happiness and comfort of another- not to the exclusion of your own, mind you- but there should be some give and take involved.

It would be hard for me to feel comfortable, knowing I was making someone I loved dearly extremely uncomfortable.
That's why I'm theorizing that maybe her attitude has changed, and changed before his did.

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I don't feel comfortable when I know I'm smelly and dirty- but maybe that's just me.

Well, in general, neither do I. However, personally, sweat does not bother me in the slightest. When I come back for a run and there is sweat dripping all over me, I just like to chill out in the fan and let it dry off, and then I'm totally cool with it. Grease, on the other hand, I cannot stand -- which is why I shower in the morning, but not when I come back from the gym. For some people I know sweat bothers them and makes them uncomfortable..but I think it depends on the person. Clearly, it doesn't make her uncomfortable, or she'd be doing it every day...

Osso, my little bro was like that when he was young. That's sort of why we gave him the nickname "pukerat the unclean." Anyway, it was gross...and he never washed his pillow, so it developed this glossy black sheen on it...when it was supposed to be purple. It wasn't good for his pores either.

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I think the bigger issue for me is how it seemingly has no affect on the wife's "comfort" level knowing that she is making her partner uncomfortable with her change in habits.

Maybe her own comfort has become more important to her than his.

Yes, but...when its coming down to your own personal hygiene, that is an issue that is usually MYOB (mind your own business) so it is easy to see why she might feel annoyed that he is getting involved and why she may feel justified..like its just not his business.

I'm not saying that she is right, I'm just saying I can understand that perspective.

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[quote="stuh505"]I think at some point you have to accept that your partner is not going to look hot and sexy their whole life. [/quote]

I don't think that is the problem, I think the problem is that she still DOES look nice, but only when he's not around...
Reminds me of an episode of 'Little House on the Prairie' I saw centuries ago.
Harriet Olson sits in bed with some green gunk in her face and after an argument with Nelson, cries, 'But I want to be beautiful for you!'
To which he replies something like: 'Why don't you wear that stuff during the day then, and take it off while I am around?'

Whatever...
What I do miss in that post is anything else that might make the marriage worth while.
Don't you ever do anything together?
You cannot have sex, so you mow the lawn.
You cannot have sex, so you watch TV.

How about going out together?
Don't you have any hobbies, something fun, that you do together?

Or is it really all about the sex?

In which case: Try and find another (sex) partner.
You'll be better off without your wife, and she'll be better off without you!

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[quote="stuh505"]....not showering for 4 days in a row? That is really gross. Her hair must be a grease farm...[/quote]

Ahemm!!! I do shower every day, sometimes more than once, dependent on activities.
But I do not wash my hair every day.
I try not to wash my hair more than twice a week, and it is not a grease farm...
When I washed my hair every other day, I had terrible problems with split ends, and greasy hair.
Now my hairdresser (twice a year) is surprised, how good my tips still look, and my hair is a lot less greasy!

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A few things. Sorry it's brief but I have to run soon.
1) Not bathing is a sign of depression. Add to that inertia and using comfort food.
2) Keeping the teeth out may mean that the teeth are uncomfortable. A visit to the dentist is in order; dentures should fit perfectly and not hurt.
3) A slowing down of sex drive is pretty normal with aging. This also points to (not always, but it can) depression.
4) Menopause or perimenopause ain't helping things.
5) Smelly clothes a problem? Uh, why can't you do the laundry?
6) Being comfy at home in some ways means she feels she can let it all hang out with you. That's actually not a bad thing; it can mean that she feels you accept her as she is. Unfortunately for her, you don't.

Advice: get thee to a therapist. Even if your wife will not go, go alone. And get her, at minimum, to a dentist. Oh, and be sure to drop off the dry cleaning on the way there.

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Hi Brutalhonesty and welcome to A2K.

Your choice of title is interesting. Do you consider the past twenty years a waste? Do those twenty years not count for something?

I didn't hear anything about kids - do you have any or are they grown and gone?

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Bohne wrote:

When I washed my hair every other day, I had terrible problems with split ends, and greasy hair.
Now my hairdresser (twice a year) is surprised, how good my tips still look, and my hair is a lot less greasy!

Well, lucky you with the magic hair that cleans itself...well, I have heard that your hair produces less grease if you wash it less. But how about when you first started doing this? Because for me personally, if I just rinse and don't use shampoo for a single day, by 4pm it will look like I just went swimming in butter.

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stuh, you can't "just rinse" your hair.

Either you shampoo it, or not. If it's a "not" day, you don't get it wet in the shower.

I shampoo every other day. Healthy hair means no blow drying, and messing around with it as little as possible.

Back to the subject, it just doesn't feel like this man is giving his wife the privilege of being a human being.

As far as being stinky....does she go to work like this? He's alluded she looks fine for work, so how dirty can she be?

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Chai wrote:

stuh, you can't "just rinse" your hair.

Either you shampoo it, or not. If it's a "not" day, you don't get it wet in the shower.

I shampoo every other day. Healthy hair means no blow drying, and messing around with it as little as possible.

Back to the subject, it just doesn't feel like this man is giving his wife the privilege of being a human being.

As far as being stinky....does she go to work like this? He's alluded she looks fine for work, so how dirty can she be?

WHY CANT WE JUST "RINSE" OUR HAIR? is it bad to get it wet or something? im lost, godamn caps!

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I just rinse my hair.

My hunch is that brutal's wife is sick of looking pretty for him because that's all he seems to care about. She's saying, this is who I am, take it or leave it. I suggest he do them both a favor and leave it so that she can find someone who is actually interested in her personality.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I just rinse my hair.

My hunch is that brutal's wife is sick of looking pretty for him because that's all he seems to care about. She's saying, this is who I am, take it or leave it. I suggest he do them both a favor and leave it so that she can find someone who is actually interested in her personality.

Yeah I think so..

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Yeah, but not putting your teeth in? That says a lot more than "Take me as I am" - if he has let her know (several times) that it bothers him and she ignores him, that's unconcern for his feelings, plain and and simple.

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Maybe so, but I haven't heard him express much concern for her feelings either. All I know is that if I were married to a man who remembered how much I weighed when we met and who needed to see me made up to be turned on, I think I might start to see the attraction as superficial.

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