Federal ID: The "Real-ID" ?

I'm not gonna get into the "god" stuff other than to say that no god gave anyone the right to vote, or many of the others. You guys still haven't actually said how this is violating any right you have anyway. I think that people just like to complain about things like this. You'll find some sort of reason it shouldn't happen. And it's very en vogue to claim some sort of rights violation. It seems silly to me. There are *actual* rights being trampled all the time - like discriminating against homos. Why not spend your energy on something a little more important...

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Quote:

You guys still haven't actually said how this is violating any right you have anyway.

All rights not expressely granted to the government are retained by the people.

It's the 9th amendment, yo, go pick up a constitution

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
You guys still haven't actually said how this is violating any right you have anyway.

All rights not expressely granted to the government are retained by the people.

It's the 9th amendment, yo, go pick up a constitution

Cycloptichorn

That was a completely worthless post. Again, didn't answer the question.

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USAFHokie80 wrote:

I'm not gonna get into the "god" stuff other than to say that no god gave anyone the right to vote, or many of the others. You guys still haven't actually said how this is violating any right you have anyway. I think that people just like to complain about things like this. You'll find some sort of reason it shouldn't happen. And it's very en vogue to claim some sort of rights violation. It seems silly to me. There are *actual* rights being trampled all the time - like discriminating against homos. Why not spend your energy on something a little more important...

Discriminatiion against Homos isnt what I would consider an inalienable right. God granting inalienable rights is what the Founding Fathers said. Im using their same words. But for some reason it makes people a little uncomfortable.. Not I. If you want to understand what rights something like this infringes upon; I would suggest reading the Bill of Rights. That should clear up the question for you.

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Please explain to me how a national id card will give the government any more information than they already have on me or you. They know your social security number, your credit card account numbers, and how many cards we possess. They know your bank account numbers and how much money you have in them. They know if you own any stock and which stocks you do own. One little plastic card is the end of the world as we know it according to you wolf criers.

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rabel22 wrote:

Please explain to me how a national id card will give the government any more information than they already have on me or you. They know your social security number, your credit card account numbers, and how many cards we possess. They know your bank account numbers and how much money you have in them. They know if you own any stock and which stocks you do own. One little plastic card is the end of the world as we know it according to you wolf criers.

The national ID card will have RFID in it... It is basically a homing device that anybody can track you to see where you are anytime they want.

The national ID card is also an intermediary step for them to digitize your money. If money becomes digitized then it can be easily turned 'off' if you do something the govt doesnt approve of they could theoretically turn off your money preventing you from being able to buy food or pay your bills.. It would command you to 'obey'.... Fine you say because you dont break any laws... but what the govt deems legal and what you deem as legal can change very quickly...

Example: Its 1932.. 2 men are walking down the street.. one with a gold coin in his pocket the other with a bottle of whiskey.. Which one is the crimijnal?

A year goes by now its 1933.. Same 2 people... NOW who is the criminal?

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I have one question for those who seem to fear the Govt. will have too much information about a citizen. Are you under the impression that they are not able to get or have access to that information now?

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Richard Saunders wrote:

rabel22 wrote:
Please explain to me how a national id card will give the government any more information than they already have on me or you. They know your social security number, your credit card account numbers, and how many cards we possess. They know your bank account numbers and how much money you have in them. They know if you own any stock and which stocks you do own. One little plastic card is the end of the world as we know it according to you wolf criers.

The national ID card will have RFID in it... It is basically a homing device that anybody can track you to see where you are anytime they want.

The national ID card is also an intermediary step for them to digitize your money. If money becomes digitized then it can be easily turned 'off' if you do something the govt doesnt approve of they could theoretically turn off your money preventing you from being able to buy food or pay your bills.. It would command you to 'obey'.... Fine you say because you dont break any laws... but what the govt deems legal and what you deem as legal can change very quickly...

Example: Its 1932.. 2 men are walking down the street.. one with a gold coin in his pocket the other with a bottle of whiskey.. Which one is the crimijnal?

A year goes by now its 1933.. Same 2 people... NOW who is the criminal?

Firstly, there is no guarantee that it will have an RFID in it. It could just as easily have a smart chip in it, which requires physical contact.

Secondly, rfids in general require very close proximity to the reader to actually work. The reader has to induce an electrical current into the rfid to make it respond, which requires a short distance. Other than that, rfids can be disabled quite easily - a chewing gum wrapper for example. There are actually wallets with faraday cages in them to prevent the reading of any data on RFID cards. It's trivial.

Thirdly, money is already digital. It is backed up as a physical object, but how much or how little you have is still stored in a computer. The government can already put a stop on all of your accounts!

Everything you have mentioned as a possible infringment is already in place and in progress. Like I said before, I think you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.

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As others have observed, "Big Brother" has already eliminated all our privacy re our employment, income, investments, etc., and has ways of sleuthing even our most intimate activities, conservations, and uses of hard cash should they have sufficient interest to do so. (Has anybody seen the movie "Enemy of the State"--Will Smith/Gene Hackman? You have to wonder how much of the technology in that is real and how much is fiction.)

Then given the recent Imus political correctness flap, the intentional assault against religious expression, control of 'acceptable' opinion on college campuses, PC police dictating who is eligible to hold political office, etc. etc., we should all see the very real dangers of having other of our unalienable rights incrementally stripped away from us.

Evenso, I can't see that a National ID card would increase government power to snoop or control us any more than it already does, and I can see more benefits than negatives in having one.
_________________
--Foxfyre

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I?-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

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I'm a little creeped out about things like the national id. To me it means that the government can begin to own my identity. How easily it could be stolen when it's all amassed in a single place. It represents increased government power, which I have a fundamental problem with. Yes, they already have this capability, which is a shame, but as of now it's not consolidated and simple for them.

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FreeDuck wrote:

I'm a little creeped out about things like the national id. To me it means that the government can begin to own my identity. How easily it could be stolen when it's all amassed in a single place. It represents increased government power, which I have a fundamental problem with. Yes, they already have this capability, which is a shame, but as of now it's not consolidated and simple for them.

I would venture to say no more easily than it is at the present time. In fact on second thought it if the card has a mechanism to identify the holder. Far less likely.

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What kind of mechanism can identify the holder absolutely?

If you remember, they started putting rfid tags in passports about a year or so ago. There is a great concern about the security of these devices as now anyone with a reader can hang out around the immigration lines and know a whole lot about you at the press of a button. Then they no longer really need your passport to pretend to be you. The same would be true for a national id card, which is essentially what a passport is anyway.

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the real question is why an id in the first place? what gives the government any authority to issue id's at all? uh oh, out of the box thinking!

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Unless you are paying for everything in cash, which you will still be able to do with a national ID, you are already being tracked. Credit cards, store savings cards, magazine subscriptions, etc., track your spending.

Travel is already monitored using your passport, drivers license or birth certificate.

What freedoms, exactly, do you opponents to a national ID believe you will be giving up by having a different card in your wallet?

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How about a different question: what fulfillment of government duties do you suppose a national id would facilitate?

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easier travel without having to have a drivers license for each state maybe? i honestly cant think of anything a national id would facilitate ( wait its just an ID, nevermind...?)

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But driver's licenses are already reciprocal. It's only if you move to another state that you need to change your license.

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good point, so what exactly would this national id accomplish, except setting up for 1 central goverment with the absence of the state?

thats the only thing i see it being useful for, and im not saying that what they will do just saying thats what i see it being used for.

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FreeDuck wrote:

How about a different question: what fulfillment of government duties do you suppose a national id would facilitate?

As I posted earlier, it would make it possible to encode records of child molesters and other sex offenders, drunk drivers, other repeat offenders, etc. on the national ID card and thus make it much more difficult for such people to continue illegal/dangerous behavior through geographical relocation. If a person had to present their essentially untamperable ID card in order to buy liquor for instance, there would be no more excuse for selling to minors or selling to drunks. Employers could get an immediate mini-background check with an ID card and have a fighting chance to not endanger kids with a sex offender. It would also make identify theft more difficult to accomplish and make it far more difficult for identity thieves to profit from that kind of activity. If immigration reform makes it enforcably illegal to hire illegals or restricts certain social services to illegals, a national ID card would be invaluable in helping employers, etc. determine a person's status.

As I said, I can see more positives than negatives in a national ID card.
_________________
--Foxfyre

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I?-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

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Have any of you actually read this article I've posted??? Seems that a lot of comments are asking qeustions that are cleary answered in the article.

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Federal ID: The "Real-ID" ?

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