Federal ID: The "Real-ID" ?

I read this today and was wondering what everyone else though of it

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/05/real_id

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Revelation 13 wrote:

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Revelation 13 wrote:

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

ebrown_p wrote:

Revelation 13 wrote:

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

I'm actually surprised it took this long for the universal ID as "Mark of the Beast" argument to pop up. I don't mock you, but mythology won't help us understand our social reality. At least, not until the gov't starts requiring people to have a mark or implant in order to conduct commerce, then I'm right there with you. :wink:

However, if we choose to interpret a national ID as a forerunner of the Mark, then wouldn't that make George W. Bush the Antichrist? Or perhaps Cheney?

We live in a society of mostly good people but in which there are enough irresponsible and dangerous people to be of concern. And nobody is able to live out their lives in their own small community any more. Every bank transaction, credit card purchase, phone call, etc. etc. etc. is out there on the internet or on the airways and in danger of intercept by people in the next state or next country or across the world. And our society is mobile to an unprecedented extent.

To me a national ID makes very good sense to a) make sure child molesters and similar ilk aren't able to slip under the radar by changing locales; b) make it more difficult for convicted drunk drivers to buy alcohol; c) better ability to identify those in the country illegally; d) better protection against I.D. theft and no doubt many other purposes I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

Foxfyre wrote:

I hope youre right.

But Im always conscious of this quote:

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

Ronald Reagan

But how long will we remain free in a nation that cannot protect its citizens and/or that does not or cannot enforce its laws?

Foxfyre wrote:

We live in a society of mostly good people but in which there are enough irresponsible and dangerous people to be of concern. And nobody is able to live out their lives in their own small community any more. Every bank transaction, credit card purchase, phone call, etc. etc. etc. is out there on the internet or on the airways and in danger of intercept by people in the next state or next country or across the world. And our society is mobile to an unprecedented extent.

To me a national ID makes very good sense to a) make sure child molesters and similar ilk aren't able to slip under the radar by changing locales; b) make it more difficult for convicted drunk drivers to buy alcohol; c) better ability to identify those in the country illegally; d) better protection against I.D. theft and no doubt many other purposes I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

For the Real ID act it has been recommended that there be checkpoints where you would have to stop to show your papers.

Vere ah ur papers?

There is a basic contradiction in your argument rabel. If the National ID card doesn't make a difference, then why should we go through the trouble and expense to make one?

Firstly, the "mark of the beast" argument.... bullshit. There's really nothing more to say about that one. Except, maybe, that I find it irritating that one cannot talk about any-thing-at-all without some righteous person throwing religion all in it.

People keep saying that having a national ID is going to make them slaves or let the govt control them and whatnot... But no one has ever said HOW. We do not live in olden Germany. I think most any rational person realizes that something like that could not occur in America today. And if it does, that's why we have all those gun-nuts. :-)

Whoever said that DMVs are currently linked... is plain wrong. Some states do share information with the neighboring ones, but it is extraordinarily rare. In either case, Va does not know about my tickets in Mo.

Foxy has some good points. I think limiting the amount of alcohol a repeating DUI-er can buy is a great idea. Requiring the ID for all sales of firearms, to make sure the buyer isn't a felon or crazy like Cho. (I graduated from Va Tech just a few years ago, btw).

As someone already said, the information is out there. It is already available. The whole idea is to make it more contiguous and standardized.

Richard Saunders wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

We live in a society of mostly good people but in which there are enough irresponsible and dangerous people to be of concern. And nobody is able to live out their lives in their own small community any more. Every bank transaction, credit card purchase, phone call, etc. etc. etc. is out there on the internet or on the airways and in danger of intercept by people in the next state or next country or across the world. And our society is mobile to an unprecedented extent.

To me a national ID makes very good sense to a) make sure child molesters and similar ilk aren't able to slip under the radar by changing locales; b) make it more difficult for convicted drunk drivers to buy alcohol; c) better ability to identify those in the country illegally; d) better protection against I.D. theft and no doubt many other purposes I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

For the Real ID act it has been recommended that there be checkpoints where you would have to stop to show your papers.

Vere ah ur papers?

"Recommended" by whom? I have yet to see anyone "recommend" checkpoints (other than the existing security checkpoints at airports and such...). The uber-paranoid have suggested that they could be a possibility but no one in any position of authority or with half a brain has suggested it as any sort of reality.