Need opinion on Ecowater ERR 3500 PLZ! (H2oMan plz reply)

Your advice is insignificant.

Time will tell.

Ya know, I would think if H20 Man were all about his own business and the Ecowater system - he would not give so much advice helping people out with their Rainsoft system. In fact, I have not even seen a post where he suggests ditching a Rainsoft system even though they are obsolete (brass valve units). So, as an outsider looking in I see a flaw in your attack on this guy. He has given a lot of good advice to Apollo owners. Doesn't seem to be pushy about buying from him at all.

As for the DIY customers, they are a player in the game yes. A threat to local sales, no. I worked for and ran the service and install dept. for a local RainSoft dealer. It was a great unit, it was over priced. My job, besides keeping these units running was also to help the customer help themselves. In doing this, I had to help them in some cases, realize they were NOT a DIY kind of guy. In other cases I showed them how NOT to spend useless money on a service call. This is what I see in H20 Man.

There is enough out there to go around. What we should be concentrating on, is rooting out the scoundrels and rebuilding the publics trust in good water technicians. Do this by giving sound, honest advice and we all win.

Fair enough. So what do you suppose he would do IF he were here helping orphaned and other Rainsoft customers BUT was all about making sales from his presence here (which he and I are)?

Difference is I don't hide or deny it while I also help anyone with a question and I've never attempted to sell anyone anything (either).

I don't know how much and how far back you've been reading here but... I've seen him suggest replacement of the valve with his Fleck 2510 many times.

Question: IYO, why does he suggest Ecowater and/or their other products, like North Star? I say it's to defend, support and promote Ecowater because he is an ECOWATER DEALER. Like he was a Rainsoft dealer. IMO both are very expensive rip offs, and that tells me something about the individual.

Attacking him.... so you see my disagreeing with and debating what HE SAYS as my attacking him? You're entitled to your opinion and I'll defend your right to it and yet I disagree with it. He has been giving some bad advice to people that post here looking for information on Rainsoft and other than Rainsoft equipment. Hopefully I am also entitled to my opinion and you will defend my right to it; in your opinion.

Every piece of equipment I sell, 20-40 per month, are sold in some local dealers' back yard. I am not alone on the internet and there are others selling A LOT more than I do, and we number in the thousands. So I say we are hurting local dealers; how could that amount of sales not hurt local dealers!

I questioned if and then proved that internet sales were hurting my local dealership before I closed it down the end of 2004 and I was in a rural area of small villages and towns with none having more than 15,000 population and that covered 4-5 fair sized counties BUT... the majority of my online sales are to 'city' water folks, not rural well owners.

I've serviced a fair number of them and thousands of Autotrol, Bruner, Erie and Fleck controls also. I went to school on all of them. Have you, or are you limited to only Rainsoft? IMO Rainsoft had a terrible valve compared to the others.

You sound like a conscientious service guy, good for you. I have been doing the same since 1987. Do a search for my name and you can see that I've been online since Jan 1997 and then a few online sales since mid 2002 until I got a web site mid Sept 2003. And because of that I have a hugely successful online business that I am very grateful for.

Question; IYO why wouldn't h20man have a successful online business because of his posts here?


I throughly agree, and I think I'm doing my part. Yet you call it attacking, maybe you mean I'm not professional, ya know, that I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine and otherwise we both keep our mouths shut thing? Sorry. I'm not very politically correct; or as h20 says, "professional".

Welcome to able2know. Have you noted that I'm not anonymous? I really am Gary Slusser.

More of the same from the insignificant one.

Gentlemen,

I hope that you all realize that the last thing you want is me coming to these topics. When I get involved, it's because things have gone too far and have gone on long enough. As they have here, with you, again.

I neither know nor do I care about who is more accurate about the systems you discuss or who has a particular background or whatever happened on another forum or anything of the sort. I am not about to take up my time researching who is right and who is wrong or who is better or who gives good or bad or indifferent advice or anything of the sort. I have a very nice job, thank you very much, and I have a job here and frankly I'm not about to get into the water softening business as well.

I am not singling anyone out, as I have seen issues go around and around the room and the snarkiness is coming from more than one person. This is something you would all realize if you would be just a little honest with yourselves about this.

So I am telling you all -- again -- persist and topics will start to be locked. And we will lock and continue to lock and the people who come here for help aren't going to get help if you all persist in behaving like this.

Locking is, of course, not the only tool at a Moderator's disposal. You don't want to know about the others. Thank you.

jespah,

Thank you very much.

Andy Christensen, CWS

I am new to this forum - actually this is my very first day and post.

I really don't appreciate the discussion/debate/diatribe between Gary and H2O man. Please just answer posted questions and find some other venue to joust. If you two have differing answers, just give them and let the reader do the follow-up.

I am currently trying to decide between a local Culligan dealer's $2581.20 price for an installed Medalist softener and RO unit and a more distant dealer selling an EcoWater ECR 3500 and an ERO 375 RO unit for $2661.88 installed with two years of free service (salt included). I'd appreciate your opinion as to which to get and why.

Thanks,
DJL

That's a no brainer - get the ECOwater package deal.

Superior product and two years of free service! Great price too!

Thanks for the tip, H2O man. If you have the time, would you mind please telling me why it's a no-brainer, specifically. I like to learn the "why" about things more than just the "what." Some clothing store used to advertise, "An educated consumer is our best customer." I guess I'd like to be that too.

Thanks,
DJL

Just a follow-up.

It seems the only difference I'm finding between the Culligan Medalist and the Eco 3500 is Eco's claim to be able to process out chlorine. A dealer friend of mine who actually owned both an Eco and a Culligan franchise said the phone hook-up feature only works if you have a land-line close to the unit.

When comparing the RO units, unless I'm mistaken, the Culligan unit is better. The Eco has a charcoal block pre-filter before the membrane whereas the Culligan has a pre-filter membrane.

In the past I've had an Eco-water softener (flawless service for 9 yrs.) and a Culligan RO (excellent service for over 15 yrs.). Seemed like the ideal combination... Your thoughts?

Thanks,
DJL

In all my years, I have never seen a Culligan system that was working.
I have replaced hundreds of Culligan softeners.

I have replaced one real old ECOwater system and it could have
been repaired, but the client wanted a brand new system.

The ERR 3500 is the #1, top of the line conditioner available today.
It offers the most efficient use of salt and water in the industry.
There really is no comparison.

I would not buy or sell Culligan products.

Then I suggest you broaden your scope to more than just the three choices you mention and learn much more about the water quality improvement industry.

The backbone of that industry is its independent dealers. We don't sell brand name equipment, we sell equipment using brand name manufacturers' component parts/products like resins, tanks, control valves etc..

They are the largest names in water treatment for both residential and commercial equipment; such as Auototrol, Clack, Fleck, Erie, Structural Fibers, Purolite etc. etc.. They are the first of their kind and US companies, starting decades ago and they sell their products internationally. They sell to their distributors and they sell to us independent dealers or Culligan, Kinetico and the rest of the national brands dealers; except Ecowater dealers unless they sell outside their agreement of exclusivity, if they have one.

BTW, that Culligan you had, it had a Fleck control valve on it if it was more than 10-15 years old. Today Culligan uses a copy of Fleck valves and they are probably made in Mexico or China (I have been told they are but cant prove it). Ecowater uses cheap and inexpensive plastics. Kinetico only makes their control valve, all the rest is from the same manufacturers I've mentioned and independent dealers use/sell.

So with your three choices, you will be paying for the 'name' and its advertising. And dependent on the one and only local dealer for parts and service. You could also buy from any independent local or online dealer and get the same quality for much less expense. Then you could get parts and service from many dealers.

You are wrong and No they don't!
Why must you fabricate lies just to make your point?

They use ABS plastic for their control valve. So do all the control valves Eco makes for the Kenmore, North Star, Whirlpool, GE, Mortonsalt.com mass marketed softeners. ABS plastic is soft and easily scratched.

What is the Clack control valve made of? Not trying to start a fight because I personally don't have a problem with certain parts being made out of plastic, especially in a corrosive environment.

No, no stoking a fire here....

The proof is in the pudding. Systems that last 25-30 years have shown that they are made of the right stuff. There are a few water conditions that cause corrosion including moisture, salt, UV light, electrolysis and acidic water. Keeping these in mind, a well designed and manufactured system can operate well past its warranty period.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard.

First off, no fight, it's a debate but far too many times, like this, someone disagrees with something I say by simply saying I'm wrong. Ask them to prove it.

Noryl, a type fiber reinforced plastic. It's what Kinetico, Culligan, Rainsoft, on'n on use for their valves, all control valve manufactures use it except for the big box store brands (all made by Ecowater). They do not use Noryl. Ecowater uses ABS or some other form of soft plastic like polycarbonate or PVC, I've always been told it is ABS. The point is, it is soft and they only warrant their control valve for from 90 days to 1 year. All Noryl valves are warrantied for 5 years, the same as the brass models Noryl has replaced.

Anyway, h20man is approved to sell Ecowater (his web site says so), so he should know what material they use or be very able to ask a dealer or the company and tell us. I doubt he will say more than that I'm wrong but it is not Noryl as all other valve manufacturers use and that makes it lower quality.

Yes Clack, Erie, Fleck, Culligan, Kinetico and others all use the same Noryl. Ecowater does not.