Need opinion on Ecowater ERR 3500 PLZ! (H2oMan plz reply)

What a rip off.. Six times more for the word "lifetime".

Since 1987 I've had 4 bad tanks and 3 leaked as they were installed. The other was 6 months old. All were replaced under the manufacturers' 10 year warranty. I've never had a bad brine tank and they have the same 10 year warranty. Tanks rarely go bad unless you allow them to freeze or hit them repeatedly with a hammer.

Resin can last 10-20 years quite easily. I've seen it last longer than that on well water.

I can replace a 10" x 54" tank (1.5 cuft) for a delivered price of roughly $250. A brine tank for roughly $100 delivered. And 1 cubic foot of resin is $98 delivered. That's to anywhere in the lower 48 US States. I sell the whole softener for $688 delivered.

The manufacturers are Structural, Purolite, Clack etc. The largest manufacturers of these products in the world.

They are the same products that H2O_MAN sells when he replaces a Rainsoft, Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool etc. softener with his Fleck SE (without saying what control valve).

Compare those prices to the "lifetime" cost of like $2000 and realize that all you want is soft water.

A 1-year limited warranty on th entire appliance is not what I would call a great value...

A cheap softener drop shipped to the homeowner that is only backed up by each individual manufactures limited warranty is not a great value.
BTW, the warranty is void on most of these items if you install and service it yourself. Now that is a huge rip off !!!

Where did you read anything about a 1 year limited warranty?


Cheap! I sell the same Fleck stuff you do! My prices are low but the equipment is not low quality and you know it and say so on your web site! http://h2oman.us/


Name one manufacturer, or a distributor that says that.

I've been handling manufacturer warranty claims through my suppliers for 21 years and online with DIYer installation and the DIYer doing their own service since 2002. I've never heard that I had to install and service it or the warranty was void. I suspect Rainsoft and Ecowater may be telling you that, but the rest of the industry doesn't work that way.

Frankly you don't know the water treatment industry very well but, how do you handle a Fleck 2510SE, or a 7000, or a tank or resin warranty if not though the distributor you bought it from?

You crack me up!

Keep saying whatever makes you feel better about yourself ~

If I'm wrong and you do know the industry, then you are misleading people on purpose and not helping people here.

You should know there is no limited one year warranty or no voided warranties for DIY installations on Autotrol, Clack, Erie or Fleck control valves or any other component of a softener or filter etc. that is sold online or locally.

Once again:



BTW, reputable industry wholesale distributors and manufacturers sell only to professional dealers who install and/or service items purchased.
The industry supports professional dealers who install and/or service H2O equipment.

LOL you wish but, if that were true, there wouldn't be 10000 web sites selling the stuff online.

Name some manufactures' distributors that prevent internet/online sales. Maybe you buy from one but I've never heard of any and I deal with two of the largest in the country.

The same with the limited 1 year and voided warranty comments you made; name some.

I know of no distributors preventing online sales or having warranties different than a local dealer gets.

Not wanting to get in the middle of this, BUT in the interest of getting accurate information from a poster who accuses others of posting inaccurate information...



Well, one of your biggest suppliers, Nelsen Corporation, CLEARLY states on their dealer promo page, http://www.nelsencorp.com/dealerpromo.htm, the following... "Nelsen Corporation is a wholesale distributer whose sales policy is to sell only to professional dealers who intall and/or service any material purchased from Nelsen Corporation".

That sales policy seems to preclude internet sales.

Not accurate! I think you proved my point.

I said: Name some manufactures' distributors that prevent internet/online sales.

Can you come up with anything you mistakenly think supports his claim that shows anything about a limited 1 year and/or voided warranties on equipment not sold, installed and/or serviced by a "Professional" dealer?

Work on getting the facts correct before you go off on yet another rant. You are the only one that use "prevent"

As for the Limited 1 year warranty ... we are talking about the GE system and it's warranty.



Motor Home - Parked

Yeah yeah, "reputable" "professional" "don't sell" etc. etc., but they do sell and support us in your words, non "Professional" dealers, as your good buddy justalurker showed us.

BTW, isn't that motor home owned by you and/or some of your family down Lane Creek?

The fact that a major wholesale distributer in the water treatment industry says one thing in print on their web site and then does another only confirms their hypocrisy, questions their ethics, and also confirms the suspicions about ethics and honesty by many who contemplate dealing with or have dealt with some virtual (self)proclaimed water treatment professionals.

Unfortunately, it seems that some in the water treatment industry today measure success by how little work they do, how little value they add to the product, and how much money they make for doing as little as possible without leaving their kitchen table. Screaming ripoff with your keyboard isn't adding value to a product it simply emphasizes one's unprofessional attitude and behavior.

Many people are willing to pay for what they get. They want or need more and are willing to pay for it. A dollar's worth for a dollar is the best deal around. Interestingly though, many people expect to get $.75 worth and only want to pay $.50 for it. Those people end up paying $.75 and getting only $.50 cents worth and they deserve what they get.

Some people want installation and service after the sale with their water treatment purchases. Some people are willing to pay less and get nothing more than the hardware and the promise that "any one can install a water softener" with no service. There's no right and wrong, just different paths to take. The customer who decides, after the fact, if they made the right decision for them and they (hopefully) learn from that experience.

Everyone shopping for water treatment hardware should investigate what is available locally first and then decide what they are willing to give up to save some money by mailing it to a stranger who may get hit by a bus tomorrow or drive his motorhome to Canada making any warranty he promises worth the paper it's written on if you even got a printed warranty or an itemized invoice. When you have a problem you can seek relief from wherever he parked his motorhome.

I'm sure there are honest, ethical, and hard working long distance water treatment sellers out there who are true professionals but they aren't in this thread.

At least dealing with a local water treatment pro you get to look them in the eye and size them up.

Gary, name calling, insults, and accusations are counterproductive. Many come to these forums to help others rather than to help themselves, how about joining in?

I've told you before, my customer wants to save substantial money by not paying more than a fair price, install and service their correctly sized equipment themselves while getting high quality equipment and full disclosure of how it works while comparing it to other choices available.

Local dealers should market their services to local non DIY type prospective customers and leave the internet to others. They can not compete price wise because of their much higher overhead expenses so they want the internet to go away. It is not going away, and until I die or can't speak, I'm not either. I can run my business from anywhere in North America, the mountain time zone would be best (I could cut back my M-Sat 10am-7:30pm hours some). Although I don't plan to travel outside the continental US.

So really SteveS, selling to you from my home in PA or now traveling the US in my motor home, nothing has changed much on my end except my business has increased and the views out my windows change very frequently. And of course your being upset with me for posting your nasty email including your email address when you acted like a spoiled 14 year old on my forum in Aug '05.

As to helping here, the people you "help" with posts like yours above, those people wouldn't become my customer anyway so I don't know how you're helping anyone. I really think it's all about your revenge driven unemployed existence; or do you work from home too?

No Gary, it's really all just about you isn't it?

Nothing wrong with that. Your customer type makes up a tiny percentage of the total market. Congratulations! - you have found your niche.
I do not aggressively market to the do it yourself homeowner, but I will offer them help and advise at no charge or obligation.

The vast majority of homeowners want/demand the best product, best installation,
and best service at a fair price and they don't want to do any of the work themselves.
These homeowners want the entire package - this is what I provide - I have found my niche.
I choose to service the homeowner that wants me to take care of everything for them so that they are not bothered and can do what they do.

I am on this forum to help homeowners solve problems and get the most out of their H2O systems ~

I think you may be underestimating the size of the DIYer softener/water treatment market. And the numbers of wannabes.

I also think you are overestimating the number of people that want a local dealer to do everything for them but I may be wrong on that. I know that many suffer sticker shock when they need repairs and hear the local dealers' prices. Then many get on the internet but the vast majority do not post, they just read and pick up their phone. And they ain't calling other same brand local dealers if they have proprietary softeners, they call local independent dealers and web sites.

So I question why you're here unless you expect this effort to increase your local business but going back to your motor home... I don't have the shingled roof but I have an automatic satellite dish on the roof.

Underestimated? No, not at all.

The self install/sell service H2O customer makes up the smallest % of POE sales.
The big box stores sell the largest % of self install/sell service POE H2O systems.
The big box stores are your true competition.

Online sellers of self install/sell service H2O systems are insignificant to companies and individuals that professionally install and service
what they sell with the exception of added installation and service business derived from purchases made from online sellers such as yourself.

Online sales account for the smallest amount of H2O system sales because homeowners want a human to interact with.

Sure, sales of self install/sell service POU H2O systems are large, but they end up filling the landfill in favor of better systems that are professionally installed and serviced.

What research or studies are you getting that from?

That has not been my experience nor does it account for most local dealers really disliking internet dealers.

As to my competition being big box brands... LOL certainly you joke!

The most frequently mentioned names are Culligan, Kinetico, Ecowater, Sears, GE, Whirlpool and then independent dealers with or without a brand name selling Autotrol, Clack and Fleck controls and then other web sites.

More and more dealers are selling the Clack... they must have done other research than you and are having a different experience with it than you.

Your research on internet sales, that isn't from Ecowater is it?

Professional dealers understand that online sellers are insignificant.
Big box stores understand online sellers are nibbling away at their market share.
Most online sellers understand and accept their place in the market.

I see you're taking Ecowater's hype. My advice, put more money into your local advertising budget to find folks that require hand holding and haven't looked up softeners on the internet yet.