Congress has not been scrutinizing this administration for years under the republican controlled congress. Its way past time to look into all these matters that have been allowed to be glossed over in one way or another with help from the previous congress.
Quote:Neo-conservatives and religious conservatives have hijacked this administration....
kelticwizard wrote:I looked up the [above] quote myself. All I found were a bunch of right wing blogs dated late September or October 2003 all saying that Wilson had been heard to make that statement in the weeks preceding. None of them say where they got the quote except other blogs, if they even bother mentioning the source at all.
The blog always says that Wilson was making this statement, but none of the blogs ever says where he said it, who heard it and who reported it.
This is a typical right wing trick. The circulating story where each blog reports it from another right wing blog, which reports that it got the story from a different right wing blog, and on and on forever.
Cycloptichorn wrote:In addition, I'd like to know if you have a source for your Wilson quote, or if you are just playing the right-wing blog parrot game, as usual for your side.
Okie wrote:The Wilson quote came from a blog of some kind. I would need to research it more, but given the character of Wilson, I admit no proof yet but it is pretty likely he said it in my opinion. I am virtually certain that was and is his intention.
In other words, Okie, you have no real source for that quote, it's just a rumor circulating around the blogs.
Cyclops is right. You're just playing the right wing parrot game.
And the pathetic part is that the quote,
even if Wilson made it, which is unlikely, is useless for showing that Wilson had a bias against the Administration when he went to Niger or shortly after. The blogs themselves are only claiming Wilson said the statement AFTER the Administration outed Plame as a CIA employee, destroying her career. That would certainly make ANYONE furious at the administration that did it.
kelticwizard wrote: That would certainly make ANYONE furious at the administration that did it.
You guys conveniently continue to ignore the fact there is no outrage at Richard Armitage, the first and original leaker.
okie wrote:kelticwizard wrote: That would certainly make ANYONE furious at the administration that did it.
You guys conveniently continue to ignore the fact there is no outrage at your buddy, Richard Armitage.
After all this time, for you to still be beating this horse? You should be ashamed to show your face around here after dropping whoppers like your last post.
Cycloptichorn
No whopper there. There is little talk of Armitage, who outed Plame in approximately mid-June, 2003, apparently prior to any revelations by the administration officials to any reporter.
This is all old news and so basic to such a silly issue, but to beat a dead horse even more, Novak became the first reporter to write publicly about it, and his sources included Armitage, and believe it or not, the CIA itself, and also Whos Who with information provided by Joseph Wilson himself. So if Libby had said nothing, it would not have mattered one iota. Her identity was outed by the CIA, Richard Armitage, and Joseph Wilson's Whos Who entry. Novak also called Rove and asked him to confirm the story, and Rove said something like, "oh, have you heard that too." It was not a case of Rove calling Novak and initiating the information, so Novak had it without Rove.
And this is what Novak said the CIA told him before he published his column:
"They asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative and not in charge of undercover operators," Novak said.
Another interesting aspect about this not often mentioned is Wilson's abrupt about face concerning his assessement of Iraqi WMD in about May, 2003, just prior to this whole affair. Remember, he made the trip to Niger in 2002, came back and was still making statements of agreement that Hussein was dangerous and could very possibly use WMD on our troops into 2003. Such statements continued past Bush's State of the Union address in January, 2003. No disagreements comparable to what would come later.
Not until after the military went into Iraq in March, and after a month or two of looking for WMD, they announced they had not found what they expected, Mr. Wilson began to make his political moves with John Kerry and beginning to change his tune around May, 2003. Hmmm, did Kerry or the Democrats promise him and Valerie big jobs if elected? After all, the information he collected in Niger did not change. He, or they, changed. So about face and out of the blue, he publishes his piece, "What I didn't find In Africa." And off he went with his political vendetta. So far, they are doing pretty well with books, fame with the media, a Democrat icon and hero, and a movie in the works. And cjsha predicts a Playboy centerfold in the future. Who knows?
All of this because the CIA made a very bad decision and sent a media hound with no intelligence experience, none, zero, on a trip to find out nothing. Actually, did they send him, or did he volunteer? After all, Valerie said he was going there on a business trip anyway. I've never heard yet what the business was.
Cyclops, one thing I will agree, this horse has been beaten to death. I think it was dead long before Fitzgerald even started beating it.
okie wrote:and his sources included .......Whos Who.....
This must be the fourth time we've dealt with this. The only thing Who's Who says is that Plame is married to Ambassador Wilson, that's all. That has always been public knowledge. What has been a secret is that Plame worked for the CIA-THAT'S the secret. Being listed as Wilson's wife doesn't mean squat.
But since Okie really has no logical complaint here, he is stuck going from blog to blog to blog desperately struggling to say something-anything-which sounds like he's found some holes in the whole affair. So he figures that if he mentions the fact that Wilson and Plame are listed in Who's Who as being married, he can say that is kinda, sorta like revealing that Plame works for the CIA. And there is no logical connection at all, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
But that doesn't bother you, does it, Okie? No it doesn't. Because your entire purpose on this thread is to put on a great big act like you have all this knowledge which blows the whole thing sky-high. Except your "knowledge" comes mostly from blogs, which get their references from other blogs, which refer to other blogs, and around and around until it become clear that you really have nothing RELEVANT at all, just a bunch of disconnected things which don't add up to anything.
Witness that "quote" you say Wilson made. That's typical of you. You cannot come up with anything which says
where he said it or
when he said it or
who originally reported it, and when confronted with those facts you do nothing but insist that we take your word that it was Wilson's intention. So the fact that maybe Wilson never really said what you are claiming he said, (in SEVERAL posts), is not really important. Nor is showing how the statement showed an anti-Administration bias, since even the blogs only claim it was made after this Adminstration went after Wilson's wife.
God, what hokum.
okie wrote:No whopper there. There is little talk of Armitage, who outed Plame in approximately mid-June, 2003, apparently prior to any revelations by the administration officials to any reporter.
This is all old news and so basic to such a silly issue, but to beat a dead horse even more, Novak became the first reporter to write publicly about it, and his sources included Armitage, and believe it or not, the CIA itself, and also Whos Who with information provided by Joseph Wilson himself. So if Libby had said nothing, it would not have mattered one iota. Her identity was outed by the CIA, Richard Armitage, and Joseph Wilson's Whos Who entry. Novak also called Rove and asked him to confirm the story, and Rove said something like, "oh, have you heard that too." It was not a case of Rove calling Novak and initiating the information, so Novak had it without Rove.
And this is what Novak said the CIA told him before he published his column:
"They asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative and not in charge of undercover operators," Novak said.
Another interesting aspect about this not often mentioned is Wilson's abrupt about face concerning his assessement of Iraqi WMD in about May, 2003, just prior to this whole affair. Remember, he made the trip to Niger in 2002, came back and was still making statements of agreement that Hussein was dangerous and could very possibly use WMD on our troops into 2003. Such statements continued past Bush's State of the Union address in January, 2003. No disagreements comparable to what would come later.
Not until after the military went into Iraq in March, and after a month or two of looking for WMD, they announced they had not found what they expected, Mr. Wilson began to make his political moves with John Kerry and beginning to change his tune around May, 2003. Hmmm, did Kerry or the Democrats promise him and Valerie big jobs if elected? After all, the information he collected in Niger did not change. He, or they, changed. So about face and out of the blue, he publishes his piece, "What I didn't find In Africa." And off he went with his political vendetta. So far, they are doing pretty well with books, fame with the media, a Democrat icon and hero, and a movie in the works. And cjsha predicts a Playboy centerfold in the future. Who knows?
All of this because the CIA made a very bad decision and sent a media hound with no intelligence experience, none, zero, on a trip to find out nothing. Actually, did they send him, or did he volunteer? After all, Valerie said he was going there on a business trip anyway. I've never heard yet what the business was.
Cyclops, one thing I will agree, this horse has been beaten to death. I think it was dead long before Fitzgerald even started beating it.
Lol
Novak has changed his story four times now, you do realize that?
And every time he does, conservatives keep looking at each other and going 'oh yeah, that's the truth, nothing to see here!'
But it's been lies every time.
Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Lol
Novak has changed his story four times now, you do realize that?
And every time he does, conservatives keep looking at each other and going 'oh yeah, that's the truth, nothing to see here!'
But it's been lies every time.
Cycloptichorn
With the greatest prosecutor on planet earth, practically from all I have heard, Mr. Fitzgerald, that supposedly can recognize any lie a mile away, then if Novak lied 4 times, he would probably have been tried and convicted 4 times over by now. I don't buy it, cyclops. Where is the indictment? There aren't any, so give it up, except for poor Libby, he is the scapegoat for the pathetic Wilson / Plame / CIA operation.
revel wrote:What I want to know is--- where is Tico?
Arizona, revel ... I've moved. Why do you ask?
okie wrote:Cycloptichorn wrote:
Lol
Novak has changed his story four times now, you do realize that?
And every time he does, conservatives keep looking at each other and going 'oh yeah, that's the truth, nothing to see here!'
But it's been lies every time.
Cycloptichorn
With the greatest prosecutor on planet earth, practically from all I have heard, Mr. Fitzgerald, that supposedly can recognize any lie a mile away, then if Novak lied 4 times, he would probably have been tried and convicted 4 times over by now. I don't buy it, cyclops. Where is the indictment? There aren't any, so give it up, except for poor Libby, he is the scapegoat for the pathetic Wilson / Plame / CIA operation.
There's no law against Novak lying, see. That's how that 'law' thing works.
Cycloptichorn
okie wrote:except for poor Libby, he is the scapegoat for the pathetic Wilson / Plame / CIA operation.
Scapegoat? So now even Okie admits that Libby took the heat to protect Cheney and the higher ups.
George Tenet Calls Outing of Plame 'Big Time Wrong"
George Tenet on '60 Minutes' Calls Outing of Plame 'Big Time Wrong'
By E&P Staff
Published: April 29, 2007 8:00 PM ET
In his much publicized "60 Minutes" interview tonight, tied to his new book, former CIA director George Tenet flatly called the outing of one of his employees, Valerie Plame, "big time wrong."
"She's one of my officers," Tenet said. "That's wrong. Big time wrong, you don't get to do that. And the chilling effect that you have inside my work force is, 'Whoa, now officers names are being thrown out the door. Hold it. Not right.'"
Asked how much damage that did, Tenet said: "That's not the point. Just because there's a Washington bloodletting game going on here and just because her husband's out there saying what he's saying. The country's intelligence officers are not fair game. Period. That's all you need to know."
"They didn't seem to know that in the White House," Scott Pelley of "60 Minutes" observed.
"I'm done with it. I've just told you what I think," Tenet said.
