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Plame Testifies Before Congress:Confirms She Was Covert

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 05:08 pm
okie wrote:
cyclops, there are lot of people that believe their cause will justify almost anything. It happens all the time. Its called politics.
Yeah. You keep proving that time and time again okie. Every time you make your silly arguments it happens.

Wilson did NOT reveal that Plame was CIA in his Who's Who biography. No amount of your arguing otherwise will change that fact. You even admitted it once before you went back to try to justify it again.

Wilson could NOT have planned to get Bush with his trip to Niger. Your own arguments about Wilson make for a horrible plan if that is what he was trying to. If Wilson's plan was to make money off the trip, then why did he wait for 16 months and after the invasion to come out about it? Was he really that much in control of Bush that he could get Bush to do all those things even after he "lied" to Bush about what he found?

Your argument about Wilson means I have to believe that Wilson planned for Bush to invade Iraq. Wilson planned for Bush to put those 16 words into his state of the union speech. Wilson planned for the Bush WH to investigate him and reveal his wife's name. Wilson planned for Fitzgerald to be appointed. The sheer planning that Wilson did is amazing. How he got so many people to fall for his plan and do his bidding is even more amazing. I think it is far easier to believe that explosives were planted in the WTC 7 building that it is to believe Wilson could somehow get Bush to do all those things with no contact with him. I don't believe explosives were in the WTC 7 building and I am not buying your outrageous story okie.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 10:35 pm
parados wrote:
Your argument about Wilson means I have to believe that Wilson planned for Bush to invade Iraq. Wilson planned for Bush to put those 16 words into his state of the union speech. Wilson planned for the Bush WH to investigate him and reveal his wife's name. Wilson planned for Fitzgerald to be appointed. The sheer planning that Wilson did is amazing. How he got so many people to fall for his plan and do his bidding is even more amazing. I think it is far easier to believe that explosives were planted in the WTC 7 building that it is to believe Wilson could somehow get Bush to do all those things with no contact with him. I don't believe explosives were in the WTC 7 building and I am not buying your outrageous story okie.


Truly a cunning plan,

http://www.uktv.co.uk/images/standardItem/l1/568801_L1.jpg

hatched obviously when Joe Wilson (a modern day "Baghdad Candidate") was brainwashed in Iraq while acting as charge de fare of the US Embassy in 1991, surely in cahoots with Saddam all those years and acted as a fifth columnist against our Maximum leader George "Codpiece" Bush.

I mean the bastard graduated from a state university in California during the '60's and likes volleyball AND surfing.

How much more guilty could he be?

Dare I say, he might be a Jew too? (I hear they love shiksa blonds like Valerie Plame)... I'm just saying........ you know.......
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 03:54 am
Laughing

You kill me, kuvasz...
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 04:11 am
okie wrote:
Some of you are objecting to me calling Wilson a political operative.

Yes, we do. Considering Wilson worked in Niger for the government, not to mention surrounding areas.


okie wrote:
This has not been discussed in detail lately, but remember he became an advisor to Kerry's campaign,

Yeah, AFTER Bush turned on him and his wife.

Get this. Ladies and gentlemen-the Bush Administration can go after you and try to ruin your wife's career, but according to Okie, you are NOT allowed to campaign for the other guy. No. If you work for the other guy, you immediately become an after-the-fact "political operative" which justifies them screwing you in the first place.

This givesa view of Wilson's politics.
Quote:
Wilson also is a career diplomat who served both Democratic and Republican presidents and is said to be well liked and trusted by the first President Bush. Wilson was among the last Western diplomats to leave Baghdad after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait more than a decade ago, during a time when Saddam Hussein was threatening to execute Americans. The first President Bush subsequently appointed him to ambassadorships in Gabon and São Tomé and Principe. Wilson has since disclosed that he also twice voted for the first President Bush.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 06:22 am
cjhsa wrote:
"Though she believes she was a "covert" agent covered by a separate law that makes it illegal to knowingly reveal the identity of such an operative, Plame conceded to Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., that she was not told by CIA officials at the time of the leak nor afterward that her status was legally defined as "covert."
"

Next on stage, give it up for Volumptious Val.


I don't know difference it makes when Valerie Wilson was told she was covert. The issue has been, "was she covert or not?" Waxman was informed by the CIA and was authorized to reveal it that she was covert.

The question which has been debated these last few years has been answered. Valerie Wilson was covert. If the people who were on that chart knew she was covert, then they have all broken the law. An effort should be made to find out if those people knew she was covert.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:18 am
revel wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
"Though she believes she was a "covert" agent covered by a separate law that makes it illegal to knowingly reveal the identity of such an operative, Plame conceded to Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., that she was not told by CIA officials at the time of the leak nor afterward that her status was legally defined as "covert."
"

Next on stage, give it up for Volumptious Val.


I don't know difference it makes when Valerie Wilson was told she was covert. The issue has been, "was she covert or not?" Waxman was informed by the CIA and was authorized to reveal it that she was covert.

The question which has been debated these last few years has been answered. Valerie Wilson was covert. If the people who were on that chart knew she was covert, then they have all broken the law. An effort should be made to find out if those people knew she was covert.


If she was covert then how come no charges have been filed?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:37 am
Baldimo wrote:


If she was covert then how come no charges have been filed?

Because the law requires proving that the person that revealed the information was aware it was classified. With as much chatter as the WH did about Plame and Wilson in front of everyone it would be hard to find who knew and didn't know the information was classified.

Just because charges weren't filed doesn't mean Plame was not covert. Would you argue someone isn't dead if no murder charges were filed?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:40 am
Apparently she may have lied under oath as well. Brit Hume picked up on it.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:41 am
Wishful thinking doesn't a crime make.

Feel free to send your money to the "convict Plame for perjury" committee. I am sure they will spend it well. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:49 am
cjhsa wrote:
Apparently she may have lied under oath as well. Brit Hume picked up on it.


Rolling Eyes

Hume's an idiot, and what do you think that says about you, Ceejay?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:55 am
The real issue in this case is how bad the CIA is at what it is supposed to do, and how it has utterly failed us. Big example is WMD, for which Plame was supposedly an expert. To do its intelligence work or her job, it sent a diplomat with no intelligence experience to Niger for a few days, to come back and claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD. A case of ineptness growing into stupidity.

In so doing, he drew attention to himself, and so he bears blame in outing his own wife, which he blabbed about freely, including information in Whos Who. As I've said before, Novak connected the dots, using that as one of his sources, so nothing precludes others from doing the same thing. Proof you ask. It happened.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 09:08 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Apparently she may have lied under oath as well. Brit Hume picked up on it.


Rolling Eyes

Hume's an idiot, and what do you think that says about you, Ceejay?

Cycloptichorn


I think it says I know a newsman when I see one. I'm really sorry about your condition. Have a nice day.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 09:16 am
cjhsa wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Apparently she may have lied under oath as well. Brit Hume picked up on it.


Rolling Eyes

Hume's an idiot, and what do you think that says about you, Ceejay?

Cycloptichorn


I think it says I know a newsman when I see one. I'm really sorry about your condition. Have a nice day.


I always have a nice day. Your short-term memory doesn't seem to be working too well this morning.

Cyclotpichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 09:25 am
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban131l.jpg
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 10:12 am
okie wrote:
The real issue in this case is how bad the CIA is at what it is supposed to do, and how it has utterly failed us.


Yeah, but that's not the real REAL issue.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 11:31 am
okie wrote:
To do its intelligence work or her job, it [the CIA] sent a diplomat with no intelligence experience to Niger for a few days, to come back and claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD. A case of ineptness growing into stupidity.


It sent a seasoned diplomat with a lot of experience in Africa, including experience in Niger specifically, to check out ONE report. Wilson makes no claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD-that is the usual baseless bashing we have come to expect from you.


Again, here is Wilson's experience.

Quote:
Wilson also is a career diplomat who served both Democratic and Republican presidents and is said to be well liked and trusted by the first President Bush. Wilson was among the last Western diplomats to leave Baghdad after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait more than a decade ago, during a time when Saddam Hussein was threatening to execute Americans. The first President Bush subsequently appointed him to ambassadorships in Gabon and São Tomé and Principe. Wilson has since disclosed that he also twice voted for the first President Bush. During the Clinton administration, Wilson was senior director of African affairs on the National Security Council.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:37 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
okie wrote:
To do its intelligence work or her job, it [the CIA] sent a diplomat with no intelligence experience to Niger for a few days, to come back and claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD. A case of ineptness growing into stupidity.


It sent a seasoned diplomat with a lot of experience in Africa, including experience in Niger specifically, to check out ONE report. Wilson makes no claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD-that is the usual baseless bashing we have come to expect from you.


Again, here is a Wilson's experience.

Quote:
Wilson also is a career diplomat who served both Democratic and Republican presidents and is said to be well liked and trusted by the first President Bush. Wilson was among the last Western diplomats to leave Baghdad after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait more than a decade ago, during a time when Saddam Hussein was threatening to execute Americans. The first President Bush subsequently appointed him to ambassadorships in Gabon and São Tomé and Principe. Wilson has since disclosed that he also twice voted for the first President Bush. During the Clinton administration, Wilson was senior director of African affairs on the National Security Council.


Then the question remains. Why did they send someone to investigate claims of yellow cake when that person doesn't have experience with yellow cake?

I know he has contacts in the country but that doesn't mean they are the people he would need to speak to in order to investigate yellow cake. He knows people but he doesn't know anything about the subject he was sent to check on.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:42 pm
Baldimo wrote:
kelticwizard wrote:
okie wrote:
To do its intelligence work or her job, it [the CIA] sent a diplomat with no intelligence experience to Niger for a few days, to come back and claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD. A case of ineptness growing into stupidity.


It sent a seasoned diplomat with a lot of experience in Africa, including experience in Niger specifically, to check out ONE report. Wilson makes no claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD-that is the usual baseless bashing we have come to expect from you.


Again, here is a Wilson's experience.

Quote:
Wilson also is a career diplomat who served both Democratic and Republican presidents and is said to be well liked and trusted by the first President Bush. Wilson was among the last Western diplomats to leave Baghdad after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait more than a decade ago, during a time when Saddam Hussein was threatening to execute Americans. The first President Bush subsequently appointed him to ambassadorships in Gabon and São Tomé and Principe. Wilson has since disclosed that he also twice voted for the first President Bush. During the Clinton administration, Wilson was senior director of African affairs on the National Security Council.


Then the question remains. Why did they send someone to investigate claims of yellow cake when that person doesn't have experience with yellow cake?

I know he has contacts in the country but that doesn't mean they are the people he would need to speak to in order to investigate yellow cake. He knows people but he doesn't know anything about the subject he was sent to check on.


WTF is there for him to know? It isn't as if he personally had to analyze samples of the stuff.

The CIA just wanted someone to go ask questions about what was going on, not confirm specifics about the subject of Yellowcake itself.

In what way would specific knowledge of Yellowcake have assisted him?

Nice try tho

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 01:06 pm
Actually, I think what Baldimo was saying was that why didn't they send someone with experience in tracing yellowcake or uranium sales or movements to try to find out. After all, there are plenty of fine diplomats sent by other countries to the USA but they wouldn't know how to go through whatever channels it takes to monitor uranium here.

For one thing, I don't know that there are such things as international weapons movements experts. I imagine that for big coountires, which Niger is not, there are experts in the field of tracing arms shipments for that country. But I don't know if there are experts in tracing arms shipments in every country-I would imagine such tracing would require a person expert in the workings of that particular country.


Also, Niger is not that big a country and the government isn't that big. Plus, as one of the world's poorest nations, there is not that much industry besides urnanium mines.

Here is the article written by Joseph Wilson. Below is an excerpt.

Quote:
Given the structure of the consortiums that operated the mines, it would be exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq. Niger's uranium business consists of two mines, Somair and Cominak, which are run by French, Spanish, Japanese, German and Nigerian interests. If the government wanted to remove uranium from a mine, it would have to notify the consortium, which in turn is strictly monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Moreover, because the two mines are closely regulated, quasi-governmental entities, selling uranium would require the approval of the minister of mines, the prime minister and probably the president. In short, there's simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 03:30 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
okie wrote:
To do its intelligence work or her job, it [the CIA] sent a diplomat with no intelligence experience to Niger for a few days, to come back and claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD. A case of ineptness growing into stupidity.


It sent a seasoned diplomat with a lot of experience in Africa, including experience in Niger specifically, to check out ONE report. Wilson makes no claim to be the ultimate expert on WMD-that is the usual baseless bashing we have come to expect from you.




Since when is a diplomat experienced in collecting intelligence?

You guys that doubt Wilson is not a political operative, here is one quote of his:

"Neo-conservatives and religious conservatives have hijacked this administration, and I consider myself on a personal mission to destroy both."
0 Replies
 
 

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