Top general calls homosexuality 'immoral'

Do NOT EVER misrepresent the Declaration of Independence to further you personal opinions.

Pace also attributed his views on homosexuality to his "upbringing." But what if the lessons he learned and internalized as a youth included a dislike of blacks or Hispanics? Or the army? (Pace is a Marine.) It's doubtful that citing his "upbringing" would be an acceptable explanation for holding such views.

By citing his upbringing, Pace appears to be saying his views are so foundational, of such long-standing that he can't or won't change them. But surely he has revised other views he was taught as a youth just as most of us have. So clearly he has some choice about the views he holds as an adult.

Quote:

Do NOT EVER misrepresent the Declaration of Independence to further you personal opinions.

kinda getting on your high horse, woiyo.

Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

Id love to change the world
But I dont know what to do
So Ill leave it up to you

Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, monopoly

Id love to change the world
But I dont know what to do
So Ill leave it up to you

World pollution, theres no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Them and us, stop the war

Id love to change the world
But I dont know what to do
So Ill leave it up to you

1. Establish clear norms that sexual orientation is irrelevant to performing one's duty and that everyone should be judged on her or his own merits.

2. Eliminate false stereotypes about gay men and lesbians through education and sensitivity training for all personnel.

3. Set uniform standards for public conduct that apply equally to heterosexual and homosexual personnel.

4. Deal with sexual harassment as a form of conduct rather than as a characteristic of a class of people. Establish that all sexual harassment is unacceptable, regardless of the genders or sexual orientations of individuals involved.

5. Take a firm and highly publicized stand that violence against gay personnel is unacceptable and will be punished quickly and severely. Attach added penalties to antigay violence perpetrated by military personnel.

Hi, Eh-Beth

I presume you have some evidence that show other countries' militaries that permit homosexuality have lesser incidences of sexual harrassment than the US military?

Study Finds Gays Do Not Undermine Canadian Military Performance

18 April 2000 - SANTA BARBARA, CA. A new 44-page study of gays and lesbians in the Canadian military has found that after Canada's 1992 decision to allow homosexuals to serve openly in its armed forces, military performance did not decline.

The study is the most comprehensive academic study of homosexuality in a foreign military ever compiled and reflects an exhaustive inventory of relevant data and research. Its title is "Effects of the 1992 Lifting of Restrictions on Gay and Lesbian Service in the Canadian Forces; Appraising the Evidence".

Key findings are as follows:

* Lifting of restrictions on gay and lesbian service in the Canadian Forces has not led to any change in military performance, unit cohesion, or discipline.
* Self-identified gay, lesbian, and transsexual members of the Canadian Forces contacted for the study describe good working relationships with peers.
* The percent of military women who experienced sexual harassment dropped 46% after the ban was lifted. While there were several reasons why harassment declined, one factor was that after the ban was lifted women were free to report assaults without fear that they would be accused of being a lesbian.
* Before Canada lifted its gay ban, a 1985 survey of 6,500 male soldiers found that 62% said that they would refuse to share showers, undress or sleep in the same room as a gay soldier. After the ban was lifted, follow-up studies found no increase in disciplinary, performance, recruitment, sexual misconduct, or resignation problems.
* None of the 905 assault cases in the Canadian Forces from November, 1992 (when the ban was lifted) until August, 1995 involved gay bashing or could be attributed to the sexual orientation of one of the parties.

Despite the importance of the unit cohesion rationale as the official justification for the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, there has been no direct test of its plausibility. Several scholarly studies have addressed the theoretical foundation of the unit cohesion rationale, and others have analyzed the experiences of foreign militaries that have lifted their gay bans. Despite these studies, however, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy itself has made it impossible to study the plausibility of the unit cohesion rationale directly, in the context of heterosexual American military personnel who serve alongside gay and lesbian peers. Because American gay and lesbian service members cannot reveal their sexual orientation to peers or to scholars, such an analysis is not possible.

One empirical context that allows a more direct examination of the plausibility of the unit cohesion rationale, however, is multinational military units that include openly gay personnel from foreign armed forces who serve alongside Americans. As multinational military operations have become more common, it has become possible to ask whether and how U.S. personnel might be affected by the presence of acknowledged homosexual service members from other countries. An examination of multinational military units may be the most direct option for assessing the plausibility of the unit cohesion rationale.

This study begins by describing various settings in which U.S. personnel serve with non-U.S. personnel in multinational units. Then, it explores the official and unofficial policies and administrative mechanisms that organizations such as NATO and the United Nations have put into place to monitor differences in personnel policies among member nations. The study then presents five case studies of gay non-American service members who served with Americans in multinational military units or operations. Finally, a conclusion summarizes key findings.

The study's primary conclusion is that the presence of acknowledged gay service members does not compromise unit cohesion or operational effectiveness in multinational military units. American personnel are able to interact with and work successfully with acknowledged gay personnel from foreign militaries. When occasional conflicts do arise, they tend to be minor and to be resolved successfully in an informal manner. On an institutional level, the study also finds that neither NATO nor the United Nations has addressed the coordination of divergent policies concerning sexual orientation in an official manner, largely because these organizations are preoccupied with more pressing concerns, and because homosexual personnel are not seen as sources of tension, even for U.S. personnel.

woiyo wrote:

Don't attack me, son, because you're against what it means to be an American.

It's okay with me that you don't believe that people are equal, and that bigotry towards them is okay, but don't claim that such an attitude reflects what America is all about.

Cycloptichorn

1. Establish clear norms that sexual orientation is irrelevant to performing one's duty and that everyone should be judged on her or his own merits.

2. Eliminate false stereotypes about gay men and lesbians through education and sensitivity training for all personnel.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

woiyo wrote:

Don't attack me, son, because you're against what it means to be an American.

It's okay with me that you don't believe that people are equal, and that bigotry towards them is okay, but don't claim that such an attitude reflects what America is all about.

Cycloptichorn

Typical pompus, arrognant and ignorant response.

How one would use the Declaration of Independance to support homosexual rights shows me you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Homosexuals have rights and are protected by law. They are free to servce in the military and do so proudly.

Sexual orientation has no business in the military. Which is why I support Don't ask, Don't tell.

Just because a General has a differnet opinion then you about the morality of it, and since you can not intellignetly argue the point, due lack of education only permits you to come back with name calling.

Have a nice day.