re McG's cartoon...
It remains a curiosity that you apparently do not have an understanding of your treasured (deservedly) First Amendment.
That's BS, especially the statement about torture. Interestingly, the number one Hez captive in Israel has been allowed to acquire academic degrees. The Arab countries routinely execute Israeli captives.
McG, the cartoon is funny, though highly non-PC.
Advocate wrote:That's BS, especially the statement about torture. Interestingly, the number one Hez captive in Israel has been allowed to acquire academic degrees. The Arab countries routinely execute Israeli captives.
Quote:In September 1999, in response to PCATI's petition, nine justices of the High Court ruled to absolutely prohibit the use of torture during interrogation. The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, an independent human rights organization founded in 1990, monitors the implementation of this ruling in detention centers and continues the struggle against the use of torture in interrogation in Israel and the Palestinian Authority through legal means, support of relevant legislation and through an information campaign aimed at raising public awareness of the subject.
The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel:
Provides legal counsel and aid to victims of torture, advice and assistance to attorneys representing them. PCATI is involved with all investigative authorities in Israel: the Military, Police, GSS etc.
Actively lobbies against legislation which would allow torture during interrogation and permit the holding of hostages by law.
Continues the campaign for public opinion in Israel and develops educational programs for the public.
Acts as a national and international resource center for information on torture and related fields of human rights in Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
Monitors the implementation of the High Court of Justice decision prohibiting torture in interrogation.
The Public Committee against torture in Israel aims at strengthening democracy and the rule of law by protecting human and civil rights. PCATI believes that the use of torture as a method of interrogation undermines the foundation of democracy in an enlightened society is contrary to Israeli and international conventions, is contrary to the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Freedom, the Penal Code, the laws of evidence and the UN International Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment which was signed by the state of Israel.
http://www.stoptorture.org.il/eng/about.asp?menu=2&submenu=1
At the top of that link, you can see who sits on the board of this organization and who makes up the staff.
blatham wrote:Quote:...The 40 year Israeli opression, exploitation, and theft of the property of the non Jewish populations of the West Bank and Gaza ranks as one of great crimes of the modern era. It has left Israel friendless and alone.
george
How on earth can your write everything up to that sentence in red, and then go on to write that sentence in red?
Israel acts as it does because it has the unfailing support of the US. Israel is friendless and alone except for that one other nation which has a comparable ethics level.
In this stupid and destructive nationalist blindness, you and advocate are equals .
Blatham,
You are correct in that I did skip over the too unquestioning U.S. support for Israel, particularly under the current administration, but also including every Administration since Truman (with a few exceptions under Eisenhower). My lapse was a result of my belief that, even here, the public awareness that our unquestioning support for the worst impulses of Israeli governments has become a millstone around our necks, and has jeapordized Israel's future as well, has increased significantly -- change is coming.
Thank you. You can leave your room and rejoin us at the dinner table now.
Advocate wrote:No matter what the thread, one can rely on George, Blue, and Cyclo to find a way to unfairly denigrate Israel. I now see Bernie is jumping on the bandwagon. Yeah, Israel is largely friendless and alone, and that is because it lacks oil, and has a population slightly lower than that of the combined Arab countries.
The US has been a good friend of Israel because Israel's cause is just and it has served as a valuable ally of the US.
Israel's cause - for a state that will treat one religious or ethnic group as of greater intrinsic value than others is hardly just by any reasonable standard.
Israel's protagonists have gone to great lengths to portray Israel as a vital strategic ally of the United States in its dealings with rivals, both during the Cold war and afterwards. However the factual basis for such allegations is slim in the extreme. Israel is an inconsequential addition to our military and economic power, and support for its expansionist policies has caused us difficulties and risks far out of proportion to any benefit gained. In addition to billions in economic aid (which in view of their relative wealth they hardly need) we also give Israel huge dollar credits for the acquisition of the latest in our military hardware (some of which we later find they have pirated and sold to third parties, despite agreements they would not do so,) Hardly the work of a friend who takes our interests into account.
A number of presidents have gone into office thinking that Israel wasn't worth the expense. Each of them soon found out that our payments were a bargain price.
Israel is hardly expansionist. As a prize of war, it did put some settlements in the WB and Gaza, which was a mistake. They are mostly gone now. Israel would love to establish a Pal state, but the Pals are holding out for the destruction of Israel. The Pals won't even produce a map showing a border for the two states. And it is amusing that Israel is supposed to support the new coalition that won't even recognize the right of Israel to exist.
Good fences make good neighbors.
Quote:A number of presidents have gone into office thinking that Israel wasn't worth the expense. Each of them soon found out that our payments were a bargain price.
Why? Can you give any evidence as to why they found this out?
It's easy to throw around assertions; but can you provide any tangible evidence as to what the US gets out of the relationship?
Cycloptichorn
"Israel would love to establish a Pal state,"? One with dignity for Palestinians? I see no proof of that. Rabin tried some. The Saudi peace initiative seems to be gaining momentum these days. Israel has rejected it in the past. Maybe this time they'll join the rest of the world in taking a more serious look. Meanwhile more recent history shows Israel rejecting a 2 state solution despite some lip service. "Shin Bet Vetoed Secret Israeli-Palestinian Peace Agreement"
http://nafeez.blogspot.com/2006/07/shin-bet-vetoed-secret-israeli.html
Advocate wrote:A number of presidents have gone into office thinking that Israel wasn't worth the expense. Each of them soon found out that our payments were a bargain price.
A bargain price indeed -- for their own political survival.
I feel as though I am writing to an Arafat. But I suggest you check the link below regarding the cost of supporting Israel.
http://www.factsandlogic.org/pdf/ad_99.pdf
Keep your propaganda to yourself, thanks. It's obvious that you have zero clue how to answer the question in your OWN WORDS and instead started hunting the web for some sort of justification.
A hint for you: no piece that includes the words 'Islamofascism' is a serious or well-written piece.
Cycloptichorn
Cyclo, I know, the truth is a bitch.
Advocate wrote:Cyclo, I know, the truth is a bitch.
What truth, exactly?
You don't have a clue what you are talking about, Advocate. You may be the least well informed supporter of Israel I have ever come across. You've never displayed any ability to actually defend Israel's actions, or explain why they are a valuable partner for us, in your own words.
Why do you even bother, if you can't bring your A game?
Cycloptichorn
I don't think that Advocate is so much ill-informed or unaware of the details or history, as oddly inclined to apply vastly different principles to the evaluation of actions by Israel and those by the United States. This suggests the existence of unstated postulates in his thinking - a possible example may be that the preservation and expansion of an exclusive Jewish State in Palestine is, in his eyes, a transcendent imperative - regardless of the costs it imposes on others, including the Palestinians, and even the Jewish citizens of Israel, and the citizens of the United States - its professed friend.
The Middle East has been growing date palms for centuries. The average tree is about 18-20 feet tall and yields about 38 pounds of dates a year.
Israeli date trees are now yielding 400 pounds/year and are short enough to be harvested from the ground or a short ladder.
Israel the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following :
The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.
Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.
Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.
Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S, Russia and China ). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16's. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.
Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.
According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.
Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies t han any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U.S.
Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U.S.
Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.
Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.
The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.
Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.
Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews (Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.
When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.
When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three victims from the rubble.
Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship -- and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.
Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the former Soviet Union)
Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."
Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.
Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.
Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.
Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.
An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.
Israel's Given Imaging developed the first ingestible video ca mera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders.
Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera helps doctors diagnose heart¹s mechanical operations through a sophisticated syst em of sensors.
Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.
A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the Clear Light device, produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.
An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave desert.
All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.
. . . . AND THE FRENCH AMBASSADOR IN ENGLAND SAYS :
"ISRAEL IS NOTHING BUT A s**t LITTLE COUNTRY"
In all fairness,I must say that the above came from a friend of mine via e-mail and are unsourced.
But,I have seen no evidence to rebut the claims.
I started out quite the enthused person for Israel, back when I was first interested in anything about world affairs. We whooped and hollared in our lab during the '67 days. For me it has been all downhill since then.
A friend of mine took one of those jaunts abroad that so many did in the late sixties and early seventies by the blessing of the cheapo prices of Icelandic Airlines.. I seem to remember Damascus and Dubrovnik being on her route. She challenged me re my total Israel pov; don't know what I answered, but that I just got there were two or more sides to all this.
I don't hate Israel and I surely don't hate the US, but I've got massive dismay.
But wait, what the hell does this have to do with homosexuality and its vilification?
Well I do sense a whiff of exaggeration in many of your unsubstantiated claims. I suspect that some folks in Silicon Valley and Redmond Washington might be inclined to dispute some of the Intel, Cisco and Microsoft claims.
Have you researched any of the technological achievements of Germany during the period of 1935 to 1945?
I believe it is false to say that Israel is a liberal democracy. Indeed a very large fraction of the population living in the territory that it occupies and controls have no political rights at all. They have been held in servitude and military occupation for almost 40 years, during which time their land, property and civil rights have been consistently plundered by an Israeli government bent on the ethnic cleansing of large areas of the West Bank. Its sectarian policies with respect to ethnicity and religion mark Israel as a Middle eastern country, not a Western one.
