Masturbation and God

Francis, say I see someone in the middle of a road with a semi barreling toward them. I sincerely belive that this semi can cause them harm. Is it wrong for me to yell for them to get out of the road, even if they aren't willing to listen to my advice?

Even the demons believe in God, and shudder. To say that the Bible is true doesn't make someone a good person! Murderers and rapists obviously don't really believe it (if they had, they would not murder and rape). A true follower of Christ will be "Helping others, showing compassion, and being understanding for their needs."

So, Run4Fun, you never masturbate?

I can show compassion, and help others and be understanding of their needs... as well as my own. But, maybe I'm one of the few here that are truly ambidextrous.

What you are doing is only a matter of rhetorics. It can be wrong if your yelling distracts them from paying attention to the road and then they get caught by the semi...

I don't know if we are a few here...

always trying to be hot ****.... well... I can switch hands and gain a stroke....

Ha, Only cause your thinkin' of Sister Catherine, and THAT's just wroooong!

Well, I think I am going to re-enter the conversation.

I have been busy with school and work this week, so that is why I disappeared.

I agree with some of what Run 4 Fun says, and then sometimes I don't. I've heard all of these arguments before, hence my attempt to see what lots of other people thought on the subject.

I believe the Pentacle Queen asked me where my religious upbringing comes from. I get the sense that it was asked with a little bit of tongue in cheek. And I also understand that she is an athiest from her other posts on some other threads. But I will answer nonetheless:

I was baptised Catholic at 6mo old. My maternal grandparents went to church all the time, and when my mother and I visited them, we would go to church together. But alas, my mother is a crack addict, and this created a buttload of family problems early on. So, I ended up being raised by my paternal grandparents for the most part (aside from custody battles, moving in and out of my fathers house, awful visits to my mothers house where I was exposed to abuse, drug use, and NEGLECT!!!). Finally, my sisters and I stopped visiting Mom altogether.

When my maternal grandmother died when I was 11, she came to me in a dream. I don't believe that this is a figment of my imagination, but I believe that it was really her. After that, I was inspired (and some of it had to do with being the only kid in school who didnt go to church, but there was more to it than that) to start going to church. My paternal grandparents (with whom I lived) helped me make the Catholic Sacraments.

I became very devout for an 11 year old. Religion became a very big part of my life. And I took to heart the ideas of justice. I think these ideas appealed to me on some level because I wanted order in my life, and since life on earth obviously embodied no sense of order whatsoever, I reasoned that God must provide that order in the creation of heaven and hell and the categorization of souls therin. I must admit I didn't read much of the Bible as a child, so I understood what they told me at Church and at CCD without examining it on my own, even into high school.

For a while, during my freshman year of college, I contemplated transferring to a theological school and becoming a nun or a missionary.

But, I've had issues with sex since I was a child. I have been masturbating since I was 4 years old (and not in the normal experimental way). I have had an understanding of sex, in most of its details since about the same time. I have always suspected sexual abuse, but have never been quite sure of it. I have always been ashamed of my body and my sexuality (especially my affinity for women). I suppose that it makes sense to me that God would punish me for being sexual.

Some of you may wonder why that would make sense to anyone.

I'll tell you why (knowing full well how foolish this sounds, but not being at the point yet that I can really change it). I think sex is BAD. I don't have a reason. I just think it is. It hurts people. It is an angry and using thing. I don't remember being abused (except instances of incest with my sisters as a young child). I was also forced into sexual situations with a man with whom I was involved peripherally while I was living in France the last time. I can't recall ever feeling like sex could be a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, I have had some good experiences with Sex. My ex-boyfriend treated me with the most respect I think anyone could in that department. But even then, I pushed him away because the closer I got to him sexually, the more negative feelings started resurfacing. It led to a mental breakdown, which was somewhat chronicled on this website in some of my earlier threads about depression, suicide attempts, and other not so fun experiences.

So, the result of all of this is that I mistrust sex. And I do think that God holds that promiscuity, non-committed sex, or any sex that isn't completely devoted to creating happiness in another person is against His purpose. I don't say that because of anything the Bible says, but because in my experiences, even the best-intentioned people ended up screwing each other up royally when it comes to sex. And I feel like the more I lust and masturbate, the closer I get to acting in inappropriate and hurtful ways toward other people.

Sometimes I get so angry, and I just wish I could just go **** people for the fun of it. I wish I could get flat drunk and screw somebody I don't care about, wake up the next day, and do it all over again! But I won't. Yet, every time I masturbate, I feel guilty because I feel like it is bringing me closer to these sorts of behaviors. But I can't stop. And sometimes it feels really good, which is what I was chronicling in my first post. But the good is always tinged by a sense that I am an "awful person who doesn't deserve to live because I am such a pervert." I can't control my libido, and I can't live with it either. So the result is a self-hatred so deep that most of you probably wouldn't understand it.

I guess it is silly of me to expect some sort of answer from a web forum. But I am reaching.

P.S. Please don't suggest therapy. I am in therapy and have been since the beginning of my mental breakdown about a year ago. I have been digging at these issues with my therapist, and making marginal and reluctant progress toward a better more forgiving self-image. But, it's not over yet. And sex is THE BIGGEST stumbling block for me. I am frustrated with therapy to an extent. But I'm plugging away still.

So, that is my sexual background. Maybe some of it seems unrelated. But it is very much why I have such issues with the big M.

Well, danielle, the only thing to suggest is staying in therapy because sex is not bad. It doesn't always hurt people and it wasn't made for procreation only. Just look at how much pleasure we get from it. If it was simply for procreation, we'd have the drive to do it once a year to get pregnant and that would be that. Instead, God gave us this glorious drive that brings us pleasure in a way that nothing else can.

My personal thoughts is that you were molested as a young child. Of course, I can't be sure of that but it sounds like that might be what happened and what would have shut out any positive feelings on sex.

Just remember that there is nothing wrong with you. You are not defective. You just need to re-open a part of you that has been lost for a long time and re-program your brain to think of sex in a different way.

No one here is saying go out and screw every person you meet. What we are saying is that if you do have sex, it's ok.

Good luck.

Hmm, it's curious. I would agree with bella and say stay in therapy. And at least you are working hard in college, thats good.

I only asked you where your religious opinions came from because I believed it may have influenced your opinion on sex, and I believe I am right, and that it has.
I didn't say it to poke fun. I know what an effect a religious upbringing can have on you. I was brought up as a strict protestant and when I finally decided I didn't believe in it, I cried myself to sleep each night because I was so scared I was going to go to hell.

Everyone gets the feeling that they just wanna F*** strangers. I get it all the time, but it isn't bad its natural. Once you accept that then you will feel a lot better, im sure.

It's another of God's tricks. Like leaving all of those dinosaur bones around.

And just because you feel it doesn't mean you have to do it.

Another beautiful thing about human is our ability to control our actions. :wink:

Well Danielle, I can certainly see from your saddening history that you may perceive sex as bad, but it is not sex in itself, but misuse and abuse of sex that is so wrong. Sex is a wonderful thing that God has made, but good things that are corrupted are even worse than bad things much of the time.

God invented sex. That's why I want to do it God's way. He has set some boundaries for our own good. I belive that you are absolutely right about your dream at eleven. I think that happens more often to people than they say. Therapy may do some good, but only the Great Physician can heal wounds like that. Come to Him to be reconciled. I may be abused by the others in this thread for saying that kind of stuff, but that is the Gospel truth. Get some Christian friends to pray for you regularly and support you. May the Lord of forgiveness, cleansing, and healing be with you.

The Pentacle Queen said: Everyone gets the feeling that they just wanna F*** strangers. I get it all the time, but it isn't bad its natural.

Can you show that everything that is natural is therefore not bad? How about people who have a natural disposition to violent fits of rage(yes, there is a genetic predisposition to it)? Or someone born with the likelihood to be an abusive alcoholic if they have any alcohol? Or a natural disposition to be a pedophile? Natural, therefore not bad doesn't work.

Remember, God is always watching. She's quite the voyeur.

Is that like hanging from the chandelier with a scepter in your hand?

Wait...you're admitting to an anal fetish with she-males?

run 4 fun:

I said its natural to want to shag people. It probably is natural to do such a thing.
I didn't say it was a good thing to do it. It can be either, it may be a lot of fun, or you may end up getting aids and having no self respect.


Well why did god invent these people who have 'alcoholic tendancies'etc.
eh?



Ok then, question. Why did god create peadophiles? Or people that are likely to be an alcoholic? Or violent fits of rage?

A little thing called "free will" led to a little thing called "original sin". And original sin means that man is not now a sinner because he sins, but rather he sins because he is a sinner. God created Adam and Eve innocent and sinless with one simple command. At disobedience, mankind fell into sin. No hope, right? Wrong. Through Christ, forgiveness is now available to sinners. The Good News is mercy and salvation where all was hopeless! Love knows none greater than this!

This is the extremely simplified answer. Surely you realize that this question has been asked before. It requires minimal research to find a good answer.

PS: A predisposition is not a predetermination. They are not destined to be an alcoholic/pedophile/etc, but more likely to give into such sin.

Wow run 4 fun, your post enlightened me!
I didn't realise that rudeness and sarcasm were part of the christian doctrine.
If my memory serves me correctly then I'd say that in a little book called the 'bible' Jesus taught that such things were wrong, and the right way to lead people to a little guy called 'god' was through kindness and understanding.
But, hey, I must have been wrong.
I guess you learn something every day.

Also, how dare you talk down to me like that? That is the exact arrogant attitude that makes atheists dislike christians and dislike the religion.
I have an IQ of 146, and grades that would get me into Oxford. So don't you suggest it's me who isn't intelligent.
And yes, of course I realise that question has been asked before.
You really aren't doing much to sell your religion to me.

A response to the "original sin" argument is another that requires only minimal research to find a good answer. A2K is loaded with them. Here is one.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1309056#1309056

Another

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1894768#1894768

TPQ, it is unfortunate that mere text is not very good at expressing how I was responding. So much of what we say is in intonation, facial expression, and body language. Reading my post again, I can see how you could take it the way you did, but that is certainly not the way I meant it. I am sorry if this misunderstanding has hurt you in any way.

Mesquite, are these really good answers? Do they have no fallacy or false premise.

Terry: The serpent lied. First, you assume that the death spoken of is a physical death. A little study of usage of such terms of life and death in scripture show that this conclusion cannot be made. And even if it did not refer to spiritual death, are Adam and Eve alive today? Also, the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" does not necessarily imply that they had no knowledge. Eve shows an understanding that they ought not disobey God before she is deceived. I will explain with analogy. I know that murder is bad, even without committing it. However, you can see how my "knowledge" of murder and it's evils would be far greater if I committed murder. The knowledge Adam and Eve got was knowledge not of what is good and evil, but a personal understanding from experience of evil and what it does.

Frank Apisa: He said "In Genesis...the god places Adam and Eve...two innocents...into a garden which has, for no other purpose than to tempt them, a tree in its center whose fruit they are forbidden to eat."

The purpose of the tree was not solely to tempt. Free will requires a command that is possible to be broken. If everything was obedience and nothing was disobedience, then there would be no free will with which to chose one or the other. This may be the same reason the Tempter was allowed in the garden, or perhaps because God has infinite foreknowledge and knows better than we do. The second half of this objection is the same as above: Also, the tree of "knowledge of good and evil" does not necessarily imply that they had no knowledge. Eve shows an understanding that they ought not disobey God before she is deceived. I will explain with analogy. I know that murder is bad, even without committing it. However, you can see how my "knowledge" of murder and it's evils would be far greater if I committed murder. The knowledge Adam and Eve got was knowledge not of what is good and evil, but a personal understanding from experience of evil and what it does.