Right Panics Over Giuliani's Big Lead

You assume that the decisions made by those on the Religious Right are ones made from a position of logic. This is the opposite of all the evidence that I've seen.

GW-- You don't give him credit for cleaning up Dinkin's mess?
What problems did he create?

Lash wrote:

GW-- You don't give him credit for cleaning up Dinkin's mess?
What problems did he create?

I think there was a lot of hope that when Giuliani came in after Dinkins that he would work to restore peaceful relations between whites and minorities. He certainly talked about it, but little was done and when push came to shove (literally) Giuliani always supported the white establishment.

He supported the cleaning up of an infested NYC. Anyone of any color who was for that got what they wanted. I didn't hear anything about any racial thing re Rudy...

He is credited for revitalizing some tough neighborhoods, but he actually just cleared the way for luxury developers to move in and push out the middle class and poor. He seemed to envision Manhattan as island of the rich and famous, or at least the very rich. He scraped a lot housing that was being planned for artists and the middle class. He fought to get rid of a lot of green space to make room for yet more luxury condos.

A lot of this is opinion. The murders stopped. Crime plummeted. That's what the city wanted and that's what it got. "seemed to envision" ...You're certainly entitled to your opinion-- If you have links to verify any of this, I'd appreciate it.

Ironically, he is praised for his 9/11 activity, but during his term he brutally cut the equipment funding and services to the police and fire departments. It's part of the reason the first responders ended up getting sick, they didn't have enough of the right equipment. After the first attack on the World Trade there was talk of another bigger attack, most people thought it would be one of the commuter tunnels or in the subway. People were afraid of an attack like the chemical one in Japan, but Giuliani just kind of poo poo'd the idea saying he had it all under control and never went ahead with any planning. Things like chemical masks never became a part of standard rescue equipment.

Again. I'd be interested to see the links.


I understand why America admired him during 9/11, especially compared to Bush sitting in that classroom with the deer in the headlights stare and reading about goats. Rudy really did make America feel we had a hero at the helm. Since that time Rudy has basically made a second career out of being the 9/11 man on the scene. He's travelled the world telling of his heroics for very nice speaking sums (not that he isn't entitled to what people are willing to pay).

He certainly is. Clinton knocks down a fee as well. They all do.

Rudy is a little strange in the personality department and seems to be a poor judge of character. He loves plugging in his cronies to positions where they're not always best suited. He recommended his former bodyguard Bernie Kerik (yeah I had to look up the name) to Bush for his Homeland Security Chief and the hearings were almost comical when Kerik's dark past (including ties to organized crime) came to the surface.

Reminds me of Obama's cozy relationship with Daley... Clinton's to Marc Rich.... Kerik is a pea compared to them...and the big difference there--Rudy was unaware. We can't say that for Clinton and Obama...

Rudy's sex life is far more interesting than Clinton could ever hope for. His various divorces and such do make for interesting gossip - doesn't bother me, but he is running on the No Sex Please, We're Republicans ticket.

He most definitely is not running on any such thing.

I suggest reading America's Mayor: The Hidden History of Rudy Giuliani's New York - Robert Polner. I think it's an honest assessment of the Giuliani years and makes for a good telling of history.

Sounds like a tabloid. I thought liberals were above that... <shakes head> I guess when it suits them. Knock a man for having gay friends and a private life...

Oh well. Set the standards. I can have fun on any level we choose, ladies and gentlemen...

I lived through some of it Lash. My apartment was slated to become an artist co-op, but a good friend of Rudy's got strings pulled so it was changed to a luxury development. Just one of many. Same is true of the green spaces, this is about the timewhen Bette Midler started working with the Green Guerilla's to stop Rudy from denying leasing rights to local gardening groups and selling the city property to developers, sometimes below market value.

I don't think you will have a problem finding information from neutral groups on the web. Most of what I know I read in the NYC papers when he was still in office.

I like the fact that he's pro-choice, pro-gay, and pro-sex. I think he's smart and I don't think he is a racist. He just ran the city like a maffia boss.

GW-- You don't give him credit for cleaning up Dinkin's mess?
What problems did he create?
<GreenWitch's answer>

A lot of this is opinion.

Rudy .. loves plugging in his cronies to positions where they're not always best suited. He recommended his former bodyguard Bernie Kerik (yeah I had to look up the name) to Bush for his Homeland Security Chief and the hearings were almost comical when Kerik's dark past (including ties to organized crime) came to the surface.

Reminds me of Obama's cozy relationship with Daley...

Kerik is a pea compared to them...and the big difference there--Rudy was unaware.

I suggest reading America's Mayor: The Hidden History of Rudy Giuliani's New York - Robert Polner. I think it's an honest assessment of the Giuliani years and makes for a good telling of history.

Sounds like a tabloid. I thought liberals were above that...

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So what would the radical right rather have in the White House? A Republican who does not share all of their views, or a Democrat????

You assume that the decisions made by those on the Religious Right are ones made from a position of logic. This is the opposite of all the evidence that I've seen.

I doubt you could explain to god at the end of the day that you voted for someone who supported gays and abortion, so that you could be spared from someone who supports gays and abortion.

Cycloptichorn

In the Republican race, former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, who recently made clear his intentions to seek the presidency, has expanded his lead over Sen. John McCain of Arizona. Giuliani holds a 2 to 1 advantage over McCain among Republicans, according to the poll, more than tripling his margin of a month ago.

The principal reason was a shift among white evangelical Protestants, who now clearly favor Giuliani over McCain. Giuliani is doing well among this group of Americans despite his support of abortion rights and gay rights, two issues of great importance to religious conservatives. McCain opposes abortion rights.

Maybe religious people, are a little more capable of logical thinking than you think they are. No panic here. :wink:

watch for the wise old men of the gop to draft jeb bush if all else fails.

My apartment was slated to become an artist co-op, but a good friend of Rudy's got strings pulled so it was changed to a luxury development.

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Ah, yes, the latest sad trend in urban America. Could tell a story of how a rather dilapidated building in Boston's North End was the home of artists who were dispossessed. The scarred floors were made over into mirror-finished scarred floors and among the new tenants was the often-mistaken-for-liberal Atlantic Monthly, which vacated its much tonier home space in the Back Bay. Ah, the every prejudiced Atlantic Monthly.

Nimh--

You know good and well that if a member makes an assertion, they are asked to back it up with a source. Since always.

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Puh-leeeze! This is a forum. A place for opinions. No one is defending a dissertation. If you are smart enough to type, you should be smart enough to do some very basic research and nothing is more basic than the internet.

Lash wrote:

Nimh--

You know good and well that if a member makes an assertion, they are asked to back it up with a source. Since always.

Quote:

Puh-leeeze! This is a forum. A place for opinions. No one is defending a dissertation. If you are smart enough to type, you should be smart enough to do some very basic research and nothing is more basic than the internet.

Opinion and assertion of fact are not the same thing. I'll do the research when I'm making the assertion. Look around. It's been that way for the four years I've been here. You don't know what you're talking about..