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Right Panics Over Giuliani's Big Lead

 
 
Miller
 
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:01 pm
Right panics over Giuliani's big lead

* Tom Baldwin, Vienna, Virginia
* March 01, 2007

RUDY Giuliani has opened a lead of up to 20 per cent over his declared rivals for the Republican presidential nomination, sparking near panic among Washington's pundits that a thrice-married supporter of abortion, gay rights and gun control could create such enthusiasm in a party dominated by Christian conservatives.
The former New York mayor's slew of strong poll results among likely Republican primary voters is battering the conventional wisdom that Mr Giuliani is too socially liberal and combustible to win the nomination.

Some commentators insist the numbers cannot last and that Mr Giuliani's popularity will evaporate once voters are reminded of the positions he has taken and his tarnished record as an arrogant mayor with dubious connections in New York City.

Others are trying to find a reverse gear for their opinions because no Republican candidate in modern history has been so far ahead at this stage in the contest and then failed to win the nomination.

In Virginia, where Republican activists gathered for their annual dinner to hear him speak at a Marriott Hotel on Tuesday, it does not take long to discover his appeal.

Michael Hines, 61, a lawyer from Arlington, said: "He has demonstrated strong leadership on security matters and that is top of my list."

Although Mr Hines and wife Patricia describe themselves as religious conservatives who are in "a different place" to Mr Giuliani on social issues, being "America's Mayor" on September 11, 2001, trumps everything.

Mary Gail Swenson, 63, could scarcely take her hands off Mr Giuliani as she posed for pictures with the former mayor and whispered in his ear. What did she say? "I wanted to thank him for being so strong in the face of fear," she said. "When 9/11 happened, he made us feel safer."

Mr Giuliani has since made a fortune as a motivational speaker, commanding fees of up to $US100,000 ($127,000) a time. On Tuesday, he told Virginia Republicans, who are smarting from defeat in November's midterm congressional elections, why they should feel good about themselves and confident for the future. He swiftly returned to the subject of 9/11, saying the lesson of the day was that "we need to go on the offence against religious extremists".

Although he supports President George W. Bush's plan for a surge of troops in Iraq, he is not tied to it in the public imagination in the same way as John McCain, his main rival for the Republican nomination.

Instead, Mr Giuliani is a symbol of 9/11 who allows Republicans to wallow in the cosy nostalgia of America's sense of righteousness after those attacks.

"The reality is not that it is our war, but their war ... this war is over when they stop planning to kill us," he said.

He received his loudest applause for comparing the battle to the Cold War against communism, saying: "Ronald Reagan foresaw the demise of the Soviet Union when nobody else could see it. I can foresee the demise of terrorism."

Mr Giuliani also reminded the audience of his record as a tax-cutter and crimebuster in New York. But there was only the faintest hint of the social policies on which so many of those present have profound disagreements with him.

"I've supported four or five hundred candidates in my time," Mr Giuliani said. "But I've not yet found one with whom I can agree completely. In fact, I don't even agree with myself on everything."

Indeed, he has tacked a little to the right over recent weeks, saying he would nominate "strict constructionists" for the US Supreme Court who "interpret, not invent, the constitution". This is seen as code for opposing the kind of "judicial activism" that brought about the Roe v Wade ruling legalising abortion across the US.

He is being careful, however, not to squander the trust he earned on 9/11 by overdoing it. Rivals for the Republican nomination, such as Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, are being accused of "flip-flopping" in their effort to harvest conservative votes.

Audience member Richard Brown said he would consider voting for Mr Giuliani. This might not be remarkable, except that he served as a US navy pilot on the same ship as Senator McCain in the Vietnam War and is worried that his former comrade is now trying "to grasp more of the right wing of our party".

Asked if he was worried about Mr Giuliani's social positions, he said: "There's not a candidate with a clean skirt out there. Hell, I've been married myself three times."

The Times
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 3,587 • Replies: 101
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:03 pm
<Lash marches through throwing confetti and playing the flute>
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:14 pm
skin flute?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:16 pm
<not while marching....>
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:25 pm
I lived in NYC during his reign and I can tell you he is mostly just a good talker. As for action, I think he made more trouble and problems than he solved. 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to him and I think he knows it.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:31 pm
GW-- You don't give him credit for cleaning up Dinkin's mess?
What problems did he create?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:30 pm
The New Republic has had a three day conversation on Guiliani's prospects this week that is very interesting. It's on the online TNR and, no, I do not have a link.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:42 pm
can't see why, the guy looks quite nice when he dresses up.

http://www.newyorkslime.com/giuliani-drag.jpg

in fact i think i got a chubbie coming on.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:43 pm
I'm surprised you admit it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:44 pm
Lash wrote:
I'm surprised you admit it.


Now, be honest - this isn't going to have an effect on Guiliani's support in the primaries?

If Dems could vote in the primaries, I'd think Guiliani would win the nomination hands down....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:47 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Lash wrote:
I'm surprised you admit it.


Now, be honest - this isn't going to have an effect on Guiliani's support in the primaries?

If Dems could vote in the primaries, I'd think Guiliani would win the nomination hands down....

Cycloptichorn

don't think so, Newt would be the front runner only slightly ahead of McCain.
Rudi would be seen as somewhat rational.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:47 pm
Only with the gay haters. They'd already be out because of his gay marriage stance.

This really seems to bother you, cyclo. You've made quite a deal of it several times.

You know there are such things as "reverse beauty contests" ....we have them here to raise money for charities. I've seen our mayor dressed in drag many times.

Why is it such a big deal to you?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:52 pm
Lash wrote:
Only with the gay haters. They'd already be out because of his gay marriage stance.

This really seems to bother you, cyclo. You've made quite a deal of it several times.

You know there are such things as "reverse beauty contests" ....we have them here to raise money for charities. I've seen our mayor dressed in drag many times.

Why is it such a big deal to you?


It isnt' a big deal to me at all. But it is a big deal to the Republican party, which has far, far more 'gay haters' then you want to admit.

This is the flipside of the coin that the Reps. have when it comes to evangelicals. Your party has benefited hugely from their support over the last several elections. This is an issue where not one but several problems with the candidate directly threaten this level of support. I know that there has to be some sort of hope on your side of the fence for '08.... but I feel like many of you Republicans are straight-up lying to yourselves about the level of homophobia inherent in many members of your party.

And like I've said before, how many percentage points have to stay home to doom a candidate? 1? 2? You're whistling past the graveyard when it comes to the Religious Right and how much your party relies upon their votes, Lash.

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:06 pm
Rudi supposedly had some gay male roommates at one time.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:07 pm
I read a neg or two on Giuliani on 9/11, but anyone's response in that city that day is ok by me; he did stand up to the plate.

There are - to me - fiascos re divorce (not my business, I don't care where who lived) and art with urine and a religious symbol (he was against it), not adding up entirelyto a reason not to vote one way or the other, in contrast to Hillary..
but certainly in contrast to, say, Obama or Edwards, who I agree with more than either Rudy or Hillary in her present presentation.

Re him and Hillary, I'd have to look hard. I'd likely go for Democrat just because of that old hematological saying, you can tell a blast by the company it keeps. Thus, I'd wonder about appointees, the whole network of nominations/appointees. On the other hand, he could be a modifying influence, and if he messed up, the jump to liberalization might be more obviously called for, though I think it's obvious already. He could take the blame for all the mess that is bound to happen to the next person, man or woman, of whatever party.

Still, I think 2008-12 is pretty crucial, so I don't think of it as just a buffer zone.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:09 pm
plainoldme wrote:
Rudi supposedly had some gay male roommates at one time.


I would conclude that since he had gay friends, he knew them as people, and so he does not demonize them like some fundamentalist Republicans do.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:11 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
plainoldme wrote:
Rudi supposedly had some gay male roommates at one time.


I would conclude that since he had gay friends, he knew them as people, and so he does not demonize them like some fundamentalist Republicans do.


The gay roommates were cited in TNR's 3 part debate as something the right will pounce upon.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:14 pm
Rudi apparently regards gays as humans, he's doomed.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:17 pm
pom wrote:
The gay roommates were cited in TNR's 3 part debate as something the right will pounce upon.


Of course they will. Anyone who does not follow the radical right's "marching orders" will be pounced upon if they use the wrong brand of toothpaste. Time will tell whether the radicals will have a significant effect on his candidacy.

Think of it this way. Rudy is a strong front runner. If he is swept away by a weaker candidate with more radical right views, it may cost the Republicans the election.

So what would the radical right rather have in the White House? A Republican who does not share all of their views, or a Democrat????
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:19 pm
Quote:


So what would the radical right rather have in the White House? A Republican who does not share all of their views, or a Democrat????


You assume that the decisions made by those on the Religious Right are ones made from a position of logic. This is the opposite of all the evidence that I've seen.

I doubt you could explain to god at the end of the day that you voted for someone who supported gays and abortion, so that you could be spared from someone who supports gays and abortion.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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