SAVE OUR KIDS: GET THEM TO CHURCH!!!

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In 1998, the Manhattan Institute did perhaps the most exhaustive scientific study ever done on the effect of religion on America's youth with emphasis on delinquency, truancy, criminal recidivism, etc. The study entitled "The Jeremiah Project" seems to conclude that church attendance and/or practicing a religious faith is a significant factor in reducing anti social behavior and also in reducing poverty.

A condensed but nevertheless lengthy report can be found HERE

If the rather impressive findings are correct, not only is a religious faith and church attendance important for a more peaceful and orderly society, but we should definitely rethink what it may be doing to our kids when we send signals that God or religion is inappropriate in the schools.

So what do you think?

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MHO is that the Bible should be taught as text in public schools--not as theology. Like who fought whom who wrote what book and what the view of Christianity in general is--Religious Studies if you will...

Spirituality should be taught just like psychology. Until you have a strong family unit (this is demonstrated in the animal kingdom as well as human) you will have a continuum of demise in moral decay.

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Interesting Duce. I would be happy if they would just return to having Christmas instead of winter break, would allow a moment of silence for whatever kids want to think at the beginning of the school day, wouldn't see a prayer for good sportsmanship and good health of the team as a threat to world peace, and wouldn't work so hard to destroy or tear down the values parents true to instill in their kids. That would be a really good start.

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Is it church specifically that helps children or is it the inclusive community and positive, drug free enviroment, with structurized activities?

I'd give more credit to the structure and what comes with the positive enviroment, not the theology.

You can also see a trend of positive behaivors in youth that get involved in extracurriculars like sports or clubs like debate.

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MHO is that the Bible should be taught as text in public schools--not as theology. Like who fought whom who wrote what book and what the view of Christianity in general is--Religious Studies if you will...

I actually will agree with the amendment that other religious texts are included. I went to a public school, and my girlfriend went to a private catholic school. Being that she had religious studies courses, I assumed that she would only learn about catholic stuff. On the contrary, i was pleased that she is well learned in many religions. I think that this better prepares her to interact and respect other cultures in the world.

I saw more ingnorance about other religions and cultures in my public school where everything was secular. Don't get me wrong, I think secular is good, but discussion and the exchange of idea on religion should not be taboo either. Secular, not sterile.

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Spirituality should be taught just like psychology. Until you have a strong family unit (this is demonstrated in the animal kingdom as well as human) you will have a continuum of demise in moral decay.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. How is moral decay demonstrated in the animal kingdom?

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I kind of agree with Diest here. Although my daughter does attend a Christian school and church, I think there is more to this than simply religion. Typically those families that attend church together are being more involved in their child's life and encouraging them to participate with other children in groups. I also found that at least at my daughter's school, parents are much more involved in the school than I have seen at more traditional public schools. The Church and school also encourages positive relationships with each other and good moral values.

I think the key here is more partential involvement and encouragement. I also feel that many families that do not attend church regularly can have a similar influence. I don't think in this case that 100% of the positive results is due to attending church, more that the number of families attending church tend to have more involvement (overall) than those that do not.

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I had to giggle when I saw that so far we all seem to be escapees from the comic books here. Smile

I personally am a strong advocate of family. I have cited study after study showing that overall, children have the best chance to escape poverty and for personal success by having successful, supportive parents, and especially by having a loving mother and father in the home. Most of the these studies do not include the religious factor.

However, the Jeremiah Project seems to be including all kids, including those from less than great home environments, as among the group that does particularly benefit from participation in religious services/activities. I need to go back and read the article (linked in the initial post) more carefully, but I seem to remember that it considered the religious factor both with and without the supportive family factor.

I don't recall that any comparison was made between religious activities and other group participation, however.

They did mention that adult prisoners who participated in religious activities had a significantly lower rate of ricidivism as also did the kids. This would seem to be a phenomenon apart from family influence.

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I guess the point I was trying to make is that in general, people who practice religion tend to have strong family ties - that is a large belief in most religions is that family is very important. So the numbers would fall on that side.

So the question is - is it the church attendance itself or the fact that most regular attenders of church believe in strong family values?

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Now the next stat?

Do escapee cartoon characters participate in religion more than "real" characters?

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As for prisoners, isn't it still the structure and general support? I can conceed that religion can give a prisoner something to look forward to and thus a reason to rehabilitate, but I'd still give more credit to the structure. I think that Prisoners that are taught life skills are also going to see positive results.

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The Manhattan Institute is a "free-market" oriented, conservative think tank, and one which does not disclose all of its funding sources, although many of them come from conservative organizations, and said organizations often have "family-oriented" agendas to begin with.

Consider the source:

The Wikipedia article on the Manhattan Institute.

The Center for Media and Democracy's SourceWatch page on the Manhattan Institute.

So, Fox, do you ever start a thread like this without dredging up a shameless conservative propaganda source to underpin your rant?

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It's not rant yet. Not until the claim becomes that the only way for you child to be successful is to take it to church.

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I remember going to church camp. it was great. I got laid more than Bill Clinton there.

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i hope someone remembers the sex crimes committed against childern and juveniles by a variety of members of some churches .
further one should keep in mind that the people commiting these crimes were usually people in a position of trust !
the parents trusted these people and they would no doubt tell their children to trust these people .
i know that these deviants are the minority , but one would do well to remember the untold pain these people have been able to inflict on innocent children .
so how would these occurences have been reflected in the study by the institute ?
i have nothing against children attending church , but i think parents better keep a close eye on them - a very close one imo .
hbg

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Religious families: I think kids should go to church with their church-going parents, but only until they are old enough to make up their own minds. Then it's their choice. I think non religious families should not send their kids to church, unless they just want to, until the kids are old enough to make up their own minds. Then it's their choice. I think the separation of church and state is a principle that must not be violated, no matter what.

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More then 50% of inmates in California prisons are Christians.

That should tell you something about Christians and crime.

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ebrown_p wrote:

More then 50% of inmates in California prisons are Christians.

That should tell you something about Christians and crime.

Hmmm. Just 50%? When some 80+% of Americans claim to be Christian? Indeed it could indicate something. Smile

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Diest TKO wrote:

As for prisoners, isn't it still the structure and general support? I can conceed that religion can give a prisoner something to look forward to and thus a reason to rehabilitate, but I'd still give more credit to the structure. I think that Prisoners that are taught life skills are also going to see positive results.

All are valid points. And I don't know what effect the structure itself has since the study apparently wasn't dealing with anything other than the effect of church/religiosity. Numerous studies have been done indicating that kids from strong nuclear traditional families have fewer run-ins with the law, less truancy, lower school drop out rates, too, so that could certainly be a factor to consider.

Presumably kids who go to church and kids who don't also experience all these things but I don't know that this was factored into the study either.

My personal interest was in whether church attendance and/or religious faith made a difference.

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I think childred do need some structure in what they are taught about how to relate to the world around them in an ethical way; I think they need to grow to think ethically for themselves. I grew up with a well established religion at a particularly conservative time in my immediate community, without training in questioning, with a primacy of obedience to superiors, and have spent a lot of years reactive to that.

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hamburger wrote:

i hope someone remembers the sex crimes committed against childern and juveniles by a variety of members of some churches .
further one should keep in mind that the people commiting these crimes were usually people in a position of trust !
the parents trusted these people and they would no doubt tell their children to trust these people .
i know that these deviants are the minority , but one would do well to remember the untold pain these people have been able to inflict on innocent children .
so how would these occurences have been reflected in the study by the institute ?
i have nothing against children attending church , but i think parents better keep a close eye on them - a very close one imo .
hbg

I don't disagree that groups of children do attract the perverts and that doesn't apply just to the church. And yes, parents should deifnitely be cautious.

The study I believe was not dealing with anything other than church attendance/religiosity in general, however. And as you said, the incidents of molestation are relatively rare, and that would certainly merit its own study. It does not factor into this one.

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ossobuco wrote:

I think childred do need some structure in what they are taught about how to relate to the world around them in an ethical way; I think they need to grow to think ethically for themselves. I grew up with a well established religion at a particularly conservative time in my immediate community, without training in questioning, with a primacy of obedience to superiors, and have spent a lot of years reactive to that.

Would you say that you and the other kids in your church demonstrated a lower or higher degree of truancy, delinquency, school drop out rate, etc. ? The study seemed to be focused on these kinds of elements and not on any residual psychological effects of any religious experience.

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SAVE OUR KIDS: GET THEM TO CHURCH!!!

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