SAVE OUR KIDS: GET THEM TO CHURCH!!!

Yup, get the young'uns to church as soon as possible (ASAP), so they'll be brainwashed with the following:

1. During jesus time, there used to be many miracles, but they no exist in todays world. POOF!
2. According to the bible, it's a young earth - about 7,000 years old, but science disproves this with many evidence to the contrary. POOF!
3. Noah's Ark supposedly saved two of every living thing, but how they did find all those bugs, worms, insects, and animals? The ark must've been huge! POOF! There is no proof of a world flood. POOF!
4. The earth and all the planets and all the suns were created in six days. Nice way to stretch the imagination of the young'uns, but it can't be shown by evidence; just a story. POOF!
5. Only the bible supports the existance of - the bible. POOF!
6. They will turn into homophobic bigots. POOF!
7. They'll end up believing only their religion is the "true" religion. POOF!.

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think, you are ... well, never mind.

This report might be totally okay - for the USA.

We have here about 30% of all churches's members going to church regularily.

Jeremiah Project wrote:

Quote:

As Father Andrew Greely has aptly summarized the evidence, research has consistently shown that both "frequency of church attendance and membership in church organizations correlate strongly with voluntary service. People who attend services once or more are approximately twice as likely to volunteer as those who attend rarely if ever."

Many voluntary services - especially those in the states formerly being part of the GDR and the big cities, where churches have no or only little attendance - have nearly exclusively non-churchgoers as members.
(Another example here in my region is that Catholics join the Maltesers, Protestants the St. John Ambulance and others the Red Cross.)

That report isn't valid outside the USA, in my opinion.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Yup, get the young'uns to church as soon as possible (ASAP), so they'll be brainwashed with the following:

1. During jesus time, there used to be many miracles, but they no exist in todays world. POOF!
2. According to the bible, it's a young earth - about 7,000 years old, but science disproves this with many evidence to the contrary. POOF!
3. Noah's Ark supposedly saved two of every living thing, but how they did find all those bugs, worms, insects, and animals? The ark must've been huge! POOF! There is no proof of a world flood. POOF!
4. The earth and all the planets and all the suns were created in six days. Nice way to stretch the imagination of the young'uns, but it can't be shown by evidence; just a story. POOF!
5. Only the bible supports the existance of - the bible. POOF!
6. They will turn into homophobic bigots. POOF!
7. They'll end up believing only their religion is the "true" religion. POOF!.

Oh for God's sake! You don't have to be so literal!! Modify Christianity so much that it is no longer Christianity, I don't really care.

The only thing that separates atheistic humanism from religious humanism is the fact that religion is like joining a gym and getting a personal trainer. There is someone else motivating you and pushing you and telling you the times in which you must come. Atheism is like DIY training. If you miss a trip to the gym or a run then no one is going to care. Then there's nothing stopping you from missing another and another.

On the other hand, playing things by your own rules, and being kind and caring and all that crud because you feel like it is much more healthy than doing things because you feel obliged to...

But then again, some people may not naturally be good people...

But then I suppose they wouldn't be religious in the first place...

Unless they are taught to be when they are young...

But that is denying them the choice...

But they could always choice later...

But then they'd feel obliged to stick with the religion their parents taught them...

God I don't know!

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aperson wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
Yup, get the young'uns to church as soon as possible (ASAP), so they'll be brainwashed with the following:

1. During jesus time, there used to be many miracles, but they no exist in todays world. POOF!
2. According to the bible, it's a young earth - about 7,000 years old, but science disproves this with many evidence to the contrary. POOF!
3. Noah's Ark supposedly saved two of every living thing, but how they did find all those bugs, worms, insects, and animals? The ark must've been huge! POOF! There is no proof of a world flood. POOF!
4. The earth and all the planets and all the suns were created in six days. Nice way to stretch the imagination of the young'uns, but it can't be shown by evidence; just a story. POOF!
5. Only the bible supports the existance of - the bible. POOF!
6. They will turn into homophobic bigots. POOF!
7. They'll end up believing only their religion is the "true" religion. POOF!.

Oh for God's sake! You don't have to be so literal!! Modify Christianity so much that it is no longer Christianity, I don't really care.

The only thing that separates atheistic humanism from religious humanism is the fact that religion is like joining a gym and getting a personal trainer. There is someone else motivating you and pushing you and telling you the times in which you must come. Atheism is like DIY training. If you miss a trip to the gym or a run then no one is going to care. Then there's nothing stopping you from missing another and another.!

Very good analogy except that I think some religions, including much/most of Christianity puts more responsibility on the person to be self starting and self motivated.

Quote:

On the other hand, playing things by your own rules, and being kind and caring and all that crud because you feel like it is much more healthy than doing things because you feel obliged to...

No argument here. A kindness is a kindness no matter what motivates it, however, so surely you don't fault the Church for advocating kidness and caring.

Quote:

But then again, some people may not naturally be good people...

But then I suppose they wouldn't be religious in the first place...

No, the Church collects its fair share of a-holes right along with the Atheist crowd. Everybody who goes to church does not go with the purest of motives and going to church does not make a saint out of a sinner. The best it can offer is the opportunity to turn sinners into something approximately a more saintly point of view.

Quote:

Unless they are taught to be when they are young...

That's the whole point of the debate here isn't it? The church appears to have a positive inlfuence on the young. I don't think reasonable people object to that either.

Quote:

But that is denying them the choice...

But they could always choice later...

There are some sects that require a rigid orthodoxy in order to be in good standing. Among Christian churches, these are fairly rare.

Quote:

But then they'd feel obliged to stick with the religion their parents taught them...

Most kids don't stick with the religion their parents taught them. Most venture out and develop their own faith and/or drop out and/or pick a different church altogether. I was teaching a Sunday School class of about 30 adults some years ago and once asked the class how many were born and raised in that particular denomination. One out of the 30 raised his hand.

Quote:

God I don't know!

None of us have all the answers. If we did these discussions wouldn't be nearly so interesting.

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Very interesting Foxfyre, thanks for the post.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Yup, get the young'uns to church as soon as possible (ASAP), so they'll be brainwashed with the following:

1. During jesus time, there used to be many miracles, but they no exist in todays world. POOF!
2. According to the bible, it's a young earth - about 7,000 years old, but science disproves this with many evidence to the contrary. POOF!
3. Noah's Ark supposedly saved two of every living thing, but how they did find all those bugs, worms, insects, and animals? The ark must've been huge! POOF! There is no proof of a world flood. POOF!
4. The earth and all the planets and all the suns were created in six days. Nice way to stretch the imagination of the young'uns, but it can't be shown by evidence; just a story. POOF!
5. Only the bible supports the existance of - the bible. POOF!
6. They will turn into homophobic bigots. POOF!
7. They'll end up believing only their religion is the "true" religion. POOF!.

This is just proof that you can think you are open minded by not believing in a particular religion, but are truely closed minded.

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c.i. wrote :

Quote:

1. During jesus time, there used to be many miracles, but they no exist in todays world. POOF!

well now , c.i. !
you had a presidental election in the united states not that long ago and you claim that there are NO MIRACLES ! how could you dey the miracle ; did you not experience it personally ? what more proof are you asking for ?
hbg

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Linkat, Please show(tell) me how I'm "closed minded?"

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hbg, That's no miracle by any stretch of the imagination. It only shows how gullible and uninformed many Americans are about our countries politics.

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I agree with Foxy. She's sexy.

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Walt wrote-

Quote:

That report isn't valid outside the USA, in my opinion.

Yeah. We know Walt. In the USA they only do voluntary service to get noticed. And for tax deductables.

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spendius wrote:

I agree with Foxy. She's sexy.

Hi Spendi. Smile

(Be still my heart)

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spendius wrote:

Walt wrote-

Quote:
That report isn't valid outside the USA, in my opinion.

Yeah. We know Walt. In the USA they only do voluntary service to get noticed. And for tax deductables.

I resemble that remark.

Actually we also do it to get a day off work, to get out of jury duty, and to punch up bios and resumes.

Occasionally a few also actually want to help somebody. Smile

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No sweat Foxy. Blokes in jeans make every joint of my body go limp.

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Foxy wrote-

Quote:

Occasionally a few also actually want to help somebody.

Are they getting fewer or are they increasing.

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ci,
you show your closed mind because of the obvious mistakes which I have pointed out. Mainly the religion is about perception and that people believe in many different interpretations of the Bible.

I'm an atheist, but at least I'm humble about it.

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Quote:

You're welcome. And I'm not worried in the least. If it was only the 'converted' attending church there wouldn't be anybody to convert. And if Church was designed only for non sinners, none of us could go.

(Foxfyre)
Maybe I didn't want to attend church for some or other reason, but had to. Maybe I just wanted to hear his sermon. Maybe I'm in the church choir. Maybe the reason is something else entirely.

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I ask Linkat to provide why I'm "closed minded," and aperson gives an answer after he says "I don't know."

Ya just gotta love their logic; different perceptions of the bible is supposed to mean they have open minds?

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The Jeremiah Project did not actually perform any new research. They located 402 articles that studied delinquency and picked 40 that included religious variables. Only 6 of these studies used nationally representative samples, and 25 of them (63%) failed to adopt a random sampling procedure. Sample size ranged from 123 to 34,129, with a mean of 2,324. 87.5% of the studies were based cross-sectional rather than longitudinal data, and 2/3 of them treated religion as the central explanatory variable in delinquency rather than a co-variate. At least one of the studies was done more than a quarter century ago.

60% of the studies used only 1 or 2 "reliable" measures of religiosity, but those that used 4 or more were more likely to find that religiosity was negatively correlated with delinquency. Reliability measures included: (1) Church Attendance (2) Salience (e.g., importance of one's religion or God in one's life) (3) Denomination (4) Prayer (5) Study of scripture (6) Religious activities.

I couldn't tell from the referenced article whether the most significant findings came from the large samples or the smallest, the best-designed surveys or the worst, but it concluded that "commitment to religious values and beliefs can have both an immediate and a long-term impact on deviant or delinquent behavior."

It didn't say that we can save our youth by sending them to church every Sunday.

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dyslexia wrote:

Inn a 2005 study published in the Journal of Religion & Society "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies" independent scholar Gregory S. Paul found an inverse correlation between religiosity (measured by belief in god, biblical literalism and frequency of prayer and service attendance) and societal health (measured by rates of homicide, childhood mortality, life expectancy, sexually transmitted diseases and teen abortions and pregnancies) in 18 developed democracies. "In general, higher rates of belief in a worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies. Paul found Indeed the US scores the highest in religiosity and the highest (by far) in homicides, STD's, abortions and teen pregnancies.

Jeremiah Project wrote:

Two years earlier, the cover of U.S. News & World Report asked "Can Churches Cure America's Social Ills?," and the story answered largely in the affirmative.

While such "faith factor" journalism is out ahead of the empirical research on religion and social action, it is hardly pure hype. As UCLA's James Q. Wilson has succinctly summarized the small but not insignificant body of credible evidence to date, "Religion, independent of social class, reduces deviance."

So who do we believe? Is religiosity a good thing for society, or detrimental?

And if churches can cure social ills, why haven't they? Perhaps they are just too busy fleecing their flocks, harassing heathens and molesting minors.

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SAVE OUR KIDS: GET THEM TO CHURCH!!!

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