Is Ms. the new Miss.

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I've always used my maiden name and the term Ms., but I've noticed when people know I'm married they alway use the term Mrs. (with my maiden name or with my husband's last name if they know it). It seems Ms. is only used when someone is single or maritial status is unknown. My single/divorced female friends all go by Ms., but I've noticed my married female friends all use Mrs. Are women still into this "I'm married and labelled" thing? Should we just get rid of Mrs.?

In between the critical errors I await your opinions.

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I think Mrs. ought to be put to rest. I am interested in this too. At some age, single women go from Miss to Mizz. I figure I'm there by now (nearly 40).

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Interesting question.

When I'm waiting somewhere and my name is called, of course it seems I'll either be called by my first name, or first and last name together. Once in a while I'll get Ms. Tea, which is fine. Rarely if ever, get Mrs.

In my mind, I'm a Mrs., as in I feel married, but I ususally don't use the title. For some reason, it feels stuffy when I say it. When I introduce myself, it'll be by first and last name.

A while back there was this really pushy salesman who just point blank asked "What's your first name"? as an opening. I asked "What's yours"? He seemed shocked by that but told me. Then when I asked him what he wanted, he agained asked "what's your first name", so I said "Mrs. Tea"
I got this really big "caaa..." and he said "nevermind" and walked off. Like using Mrs. was almost pretentious and rude.

I suppose, all that being said, I'd like others, if they are going to use my last name, refer to me as Ms.

Mrs., when I say it, somehow slightly implies some kind of ownership, like I wouldn't be someone if I didn't have a husband.

The world has moved on, I say I'm a Ms.

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Oh, one other thing, and this is regional...

If a title is being thrown in, more than anything I'll be called Miss Chai.

That is a title of respect south of the Mason Dixon line for any woman over, let's say 25ish, to about 105.

I'd guess I've been called Miss Chai about a dozen times in the last month. Once you realize it's a token of respect, and friendliness, it's pretty cool.

Old Miss
Young Miss

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Well, it's easier than saying:

"Good morning, Jamie-who-is-taken...have you seen Claire-who's-up-for-grabs?"

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When I first got married, I dutifully had Mrs. Mergatroyd Phoenix engraved on my stationery. Then the women's movement came along.

From the 2nd year of my marriage, to my 20th anniversary, I did not wear a wedding ring. At the time I felt that I was making a political statement. I did not belong to anybody, and since my husband did not wear a ring, I did not see any reason why I should.

On my 20th anniversary, I figured that what the hell, it is a pretty ring, and I may as well wear it. I have done so ever since.

As far as Ms. is concerned, I became a Ms. from the moment that I first read about it. I have no intention of being defined by my marital status. Any formal letters sent out by me are sent from Penelope Phoenix. I only use the Ms. when, on some official papers, I have to choose a title.

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Quote:

Ms.
Origin: 1952

Women finally got the vote in America in 1920, but that hardly marked the end of their battle for equal status and respect. There was the matter of title, for example. Men were addressed simply as Mr., but women were addressed as either Mrs. or Miss, depending on marital status.

Reforming everyday language to eliminate sexism is not easy, but the case of Mrs. and Miss was helped by practical business considerations. Neither Mrs. nor Miss is neutral; either can be insulting if it is wrongly applied. To get it right means making the effort to determine personal information usually irrelevant to the matter at hand.

No wonder, then, that a suggestion to neutralize the distinction by using simply Ms. was well-received by businesses. In 1952 the National Office Management Association in a booklet titled The Simplified Letter recommended to its members, "Use the abbreviation Ms. for all women addressees. This modern style solves an age-old problem."

But the problem was not quite so promptly solved. Many women preferred the age-old designations, so a revised edition of The Simplified Letter a few months later simply recommended, "Use the abbreviation Ms. if not sure whether to use Mrs. or Miss."

The new designation and its association with feminism were furthered by the founding of Ms. magazine in 1971. The form of address Ms. had both simplified matters of address by providing a neutral, practical title for women, equivalent to Mr. for men, and increased women's options: now a woman can use Mrs., Miss, or Ms. according to her own preference.

http://www.answers.com/ms.?gwp=11&ver=2.1.1.521&method=3

Interesting. The term predates the women's movement, and was coined during the 50's, when feminism was not the norm. I think that the term is so connected to Gloria Steinem that most people don't realize its earlier origins.

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I didn't know the origins of Ms. either and I would have guessed it came about in the early 70's.

I also have no problem with the rings, I think they have a nice romantic overtone. My husband and I only wear rings occasionally because our jobs are physical and they would get trashed, but I like the connection. When I was about 10 my first boyfriend gave me half a broken rock that he had found, put together the two pieces formed a sort of heart. I still have that half and whenever I see it in the draw I think of him, although I haven't seen him for about 30 years. Rings are like that for me.

Chai, I forgot about the south - driving Miss Daisy and all that. When Prissy declared "Miss Scarlet, I don't know nothin' about birthin' no babies" I think Scarlet was already married and qualified as a Mrs.. Today Scarlet would certainly chose Ms.

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heh.

I think people who don't live in the South immediately think of it as a black/white thing, as in your 2 examples.

It's really not. I picked it up initially working in a nursing home where you knew all the ladies names, but wanted to show respect.

A lady would be referred to as Miss even if she wasn't in the room, as in "Miss Ethel won't be coming to the care plan meeting today, she's visiting with her daughter."

You're right though, in todays terms, most of these women would definately be a Ms.

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Interesting - the color thing didn't even cross my mind. Those two examples just popped into my head first. I guess I could have used some Tennessee Williams to also get the idea across.

Older women in the north are automatically assumed to be Mrs., even if they are gay.

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I've never used any label, unless it was for a form that couldn't be submitted without selecting one. Then it would be Ms.

Setanta's pretty consistent about using Miss in regard to all the women he knows. My 82 year old neighbour is Miss Rita to him, then there's Miss Terry, Miss Teresa, Miss Micky, Miss Maddy, Miss Brenda Lee, Miss Eugenie, and of course my dog, Miss Cleopatra. Kinda shocked me at first, but he was raised by a very fine Southern gentleman to treat women with respect - and that's one of the ways he was taught to express that respect.

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My word, now I understand the use of "Miss Letty". You are right, ehBeth. My dad called all the ladies "Miss". I was too small to understand at the time.

When I sign my checks, I don't use either Miss or Mrs.

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...and how do you feel about letters addressed to Mr. & Mrs. followed by
the husband's first and last names?

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I have no problem with it.

I am Mrs. Bella. And just Bella. And Ms. Bella. And Miss Bella. I am not defined by my name. So why would I be defined by a lable?

I think people tend to use Miss for a young woman and Mrs. for an older one under the assumption that an older woman is married, depsite the fact that some younger women are married and older ones are not.

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Well I never liked "Mrs" because it makes me want to say "Mersus."

As for the black/white thing, I think if you hear "Missus" then you know it's black -- but not with "Miss."

Sure I can see how the convention may be impractical, but I don't think there's anything sexist about it...

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George wrote:

...and how do you feel about letters addressed to Mr. & Mrs. followed by
the husband's first and last names?

Oh.
That I don't like.

All this talk about the use of Miss....it's making me think of "To Kill a Mockingbird" both the book and the movie.

Those were the days when your mother would send you over to give Miss Geneva's house to give her some of those ripe peaches she so dearly loved.

And what about Aunt Bea? Everyone in Mayberry called her that (except for Clara) There are groups that use "aunt" or "auntie" for the same reason Miss is used.

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I still remember my dismay on getting invitations from Mrs. Ronald Colman, for example. Which girl - now grown woman - in my high school class is that from, eh?

I also remember Ms. sounding or looking weird to me when I first knew about it, which was probably whatever year was just pre-Steinem.

I married in my later thirties and, after the first debacle of having my then chosen name of Hortensia Ossobuco-Flamboozle completely disregarded by various offices and my being filed under Flamboozle, I went back to being just Hortensia Ossobuco for the next twenty years.
After all, I was the very last Ossobuco in the whole family.
Like ehBeth, I hardly ever fill a form out with any of these signifiers unless I have to have the form processed.

A couple of my friends managed to keep calling me - via introductions or addressed holiday cards - Mrs. Flamboozle, while my cards or letters to them were always return addressed to Hortensia Ossobuco, without a title. I could only assume they were so thrilled that I finally nabbed him, or that he finally made me an honest woman... that is what THEY wanted me to be called - especially after my soft corrections about my preference.

Now, after all this time, Ms. doesn't seem an odd choice to me anymore and, given I have to have a title, would be my preference, whether I'm married or not.

In formal situations, though, I'd prefer Contessa or Principessa, or, hey, Maesta.

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I never use a title unless I need to. If I need to, it's Ms.

One thing though -- my grandmother's first letter to us after my husband got his Ph.D was addressed to "Dr. and Mrs. Ourlastname." He got a huge kick out of that, and I mentioned that when I gave her eulogy a few years later (it was so HER), and now everyone on that side of the family addresses things to us as "Dr. and Mrs. Ourlastname." I like it because of that context. It's anomalous enough that it doesn't make me think of my identity being obliterated or anything, and she did it as an acknowledgement and as congratulations for his achievement.

Some of sozlet's friends refer to me as "Mrs. Ourlastname," I haven't really gotten used to that. I usually hastily mutter "You can call me Firstname" and hope that I'm not upsetting their parents. I always called grown-ups by their first names when I was a kid (my parents' friends, my teachers), so that one weirds me out.

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I've read the comments here (and the related wikipedia article) with interest.

The German equivalent of Ms came totally out of use - I suppose, females would feel offended if addressed in such a way (besides by persons aged 80 plus, perhaps).
(It's still used in the German speaking parts of Belgium and lesser Switzerland.)

The main reason was, if I remeber correctly, that nothing similar to Mr/Mister exists - 'Fräulein' [Miss ]sounds (in German) like a diminutiv.

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I have to admit that it makes me cringe a little when people call me Mrs. But I never correct them either. At work I refer to all of my female patients as Ms untill they correct me or tell me what they prefer to be called. I never assume a patient wants to be called by their first name either, and calling a patient sweetie is a big no-no in my book.

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Is Ms. the new Miss.

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