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CHIRAC, SARKOZY The French Right prepares for presidentials

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 12:39 pm
What is the standard used to determine which candidates make it to the next round of voting?
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 12:43 pm
Those who get more than 12,5% of the votes.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 12:46 pm
The top two contenders face one another in the run-off. The point is that whoever is elected must have polled at least a simple majority in the run-off, and for that purpose, blank ballots are also counted. Theoretically, at least, one of the two candidates in a run-off could get the most votes, but not have a simple majority because of blank ballots (a voter's opportunity to express disapproval of both candidates in the run off), and the run-off vote would have to be held again. I don't believe this has ever happened.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 12:57 pm
In 2002, Francis, Jospin got over 12.5% of the vote in the first round, but he was not in the run-off. Is that not true? Is it not true that only the top two contenders advance to the run-off?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:02 pm
Quote:
If no candidate obtains an absolute majority of all valid votes cast in the first round, then the top two candidates qualify for a runoff election, in which the candidate with the largest number of votes is elected to office for a term of five years.


Source at Election Resources on the Internet.

I'm still looking for a source in French.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:10 pm
Sorry, Setanta, I was thinking of legislative polls.

Only the the two candidates that got the more votes will go to the next round of voting.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:13 pm
Article Sept, Constitution de 4 Octobre, 1958 (à jour des révisions constitutionnelles de février 2007)


Le Président de la République est élu à la majorité absolue des suffrages exprimés. Si celle-ci n'est pas obtenue au premier tour de scrutin, il est procédé, le quatorzième jour suivant, à un second tour. Seuls peuvent s'y présenter les deux candidats qui, le cas échéant après retrait de candidats plus favorisés, se trouvent avoir recueilli le plus grand nombre de suffrages au premier tour.

*************************************

Article Seven, Constitution of October 4, 1958 (updated with all revisions as of February, 2007)

The President of the Republic is elected by an absolute majority of votes cast. If this is not obtained [i.e, an absolute majority] in the first round, there follows, on the fourteenth day following, a second round. Only those two candidates may stand [in the second round] who, if the case arises as a result of the application of the most "popular" candidates (my poor translation), are found to have polled the greatest number of votes in the first round.

I'm sure Francis can do a better job of translating that than i have done.

Source for the quote above.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:23 pm
Setanta wrote:
Article Sept, Constitution de 4 Octobre, 1958 (à jour des révisions constitutionnelles de février 2007)


Le Président de la République est élu à la majorité absolue des suffrages exprimés. Si celle-ci n'est pas obtenue au premier tour de scrutin, il est procédé, le quatorzième jour suivant, à un second tour. Seuls peuvent s'y présenter les deux candidats qui, le cas échéant après retrait de candidats plus favorisés, se trouvent avoir recueilli le plus grand nombre de suffrages au premier tour.

*************************************

Article Seven, Constitution of October 4, 1958 (updated with all revisions as of February, 2007)

The President of the Republic is elected by an absolute majority of votes cast. If this is not obtained [i.e, an absolute majority] in the first round, there follows, on the fourteenth day following, a second round. Only those two candidates may stand [in the second round] who, if the case arises as a result of the application of the most "popular" candidates (my poor translation), are found to have polled the greatest number of votes in the first round.

I'm sure Francis can do a better job of translating that than i have done.

Source for the quote above.


As I understand the text it means the 2 who got most votes in the first round (if applicable after the withdrawal of other candidates following the first round) are eligible for the second round.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:24 pm
Yes, which is what i said already, and which Francis has confirmed.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:27 pm
Then I misunderstood your usage of "application" - sorry!
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:29 pm
No problem, Boss--i'm not a native speaker of French, and the clause: "le cas échéant après retrait de candidats plus favorisés" is difficult to translate. For example, the expression e cas échéant can usually be translated "if need be," but i had trouble typing it together with the rest of the clause. In addition to not being a native speaker of French, i am also not qualified to practice law in France, and by Dog, i have trouble with the way lawyers write English--never mind French.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:41 pm
Setanta was right with le cas échéant = if the case arises.

What follows that, is: after a candidate with more votes (favorisé) removes himself from the competion (retrait)
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:43 pm
True, Francis, but in this case it would be "if applicable".

Legalese Smile
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 01:54 pm
I found the passage difficult, but interesting. Theoretically, a candidate might not get 50%, but if the number two candidate were to concede, there would be no run-off. Not entirely sure if that is what it means. I did find it interesting, though, when doing my research this afternoon, that three times in the history of the Fifth Republic, the candidate who had polled the most vote in the first round lost the second round. That suggests that even if the electorate didn't love the number two man, they really hated number one.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 02:20 pm
Setanta wrote:
I found the passage difficult, but interesting. Theoretically, a candidate might not get 50%, but if the number two candidate were to concede, there would be no run-off. ........


There would be a runoff, even if number 2 in round 1 were to withdraw, with number 3 taking his place in round 2.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 02:26 pm
Exactly, HS.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 02:45 pm
French papers aren't allowed to publish polls today, but Swiss papers can:
http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune_de_geneve/l_actu/infos_generales/detail_infos_generales/
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 03:03 pm
High Seas wrote:
French papers aren't allowed to publish polls today, but Swiss papers can:
http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune_de_geneve/l_actu/infos_generales/detail_infos_generales/


They used the data from (the French leftish paper) Liberation, published in France already on Friday:

Today's Tribune de Genéve (page 3)

http://i15.tinypic.com/436jxbk.jpg


Yesterday's Libération (pages 6 & 7)

http://i13.tinypic.com/2sabcxs.jpghttp://i15.tinypic.com/4hsbodh.jpg
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 03:12 pm
The Liberation poll doesn't include the raw data, Walter, far as can be read from your copy above; didn't look up the actual Friday paper though.
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High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2007 03:16 pm
Quote:
Réalisé vendredi 20 avril auprès de 1 000 personnes selon la méthode des quotas, ce sondage montre que Nicolas Sarkozy baisse à 26% et le Pen à 12,5%. Chemin inverse pour Ségolène Royal (23 %) et François Bayrou (20,5%).

Notre insider nous a également fourni, chose extrêmement rare, les données brutes de cette étude. C'est-à-dire avant que ces chiffres ne soient redressés par les instituts pour corriger certaines estimations, notamment le vote caché des électeurs du Front National. A ce jeu là, Nicolas Sarkozy (25%) est toujours en tête, mais son avance sur Ségolène Royal et François Bayrou (tous les deux à 24%) est minime. De son côté, Jean-Marie Le Pen est à 5%.

C'est le cas du candidat centriste qui est le plus intéressant. D'abord, parce que le nombre d'électeurs qui sont désormais certains de voter pour lui a explosé en deux jours (de 39 à 61%). Ensuite, parce qu'il l'emporterait assez facilement s'il se qualifiait au second tour, quel que soit son contradicteur (à 55% contre Sarkozy et à 58% contre Royal). « Enfin, poursuit notre interlocuteur, le vote des indécis, des nouveaux inscrits et des jeunes de banlieue semble incliner vers le président de l'UDF ».

Il semble que ce resserrement, toujours selon notre spécialiste, se constate chez tous les instituts de sondage, sauf CSA. Pour ce dernier, selon des chiffres publiés hier sur le site internet du Parisien, c'est Jean-Marie Le Pen qui serait désormais le troisième homme (16,5%) juste devant François Bayrou (16%). Nicolas Sarkozy et Ségolène Royal seraient loin devant et au coude à coude, avec respectivement 26,5% et 25,5%.


That's from the Tribune, not the Liberation, dated Saturday 21st.
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