IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

Well, if you can prevent costlier treatments later by having people have regular checkups, it's not unreasonable to expect that it'd be cost neutral.

What's the bunch of questions you have posted?

Miller, those are two maladies where screening is pretty efficient. Where have I ever said no preventative measure are a good thing? In my opinion, however, going to the doctor all the time does less to prolong life than simple healthy living, no smoking, don't overeat, and get plenty of exercise.

Who was speaking about "going to the doctor all the time" here besides you, okie?

If that happened, I apologize. I clearly was commenting on check-ups, which are offered free of charge by the insurance companies in countries with universal health care. As did others

They are posted a few pages back. I suppose it's pointless to bother. Most of the comments hear are all about what would be ideal and have absolutely no base on who things REALLY work. None of these posts have offered any answers to the question of how this will work in reality in OUR county. There are unique difficulties here that the EU and Canada do not deal with.

There are people that go see a doctor all the time now. I can only imagine this getting worse with universal care - which really is just universal payment.

The only point I wished to add, Walter, is the question of just how many years or how valuable really is preventative health care? Sometimes we assume something without solid evidence. I think of prevention having more to do with personal lifestyle than going for tests frequently. If there is statistical evidence, then I would be interested. Testing is not going to cause any treatment until you get sick anyway and something shows up on a test. Early treatment can help, I won't argue with that, but as I pointed out, early wrong treatment has a downside as well. I am not entirely sure if I buy the idea that people will live longer by going to the doctor every year, as apparently John Edwards wants everybody to do. I think much more positive effects can be had by simply living healthier.

That's because "thinking people" look for solutions, and defeatists say "it's too difficult." I prefer people who look for solutions.

Then go find your own solution, imposter, and I will find mine. I think its still a free country. But quit trying to solve everybody elses problem for a change.

Well then offer some instead of just saying "i wish we had this". You haven't offered any solution to real-world situation.

"Prevention & Health Promotion" is taught at universities here (part of Public Health Faculties). I'm sure, it's quite similar in the USA.

And I'm sure that's there's quite sme research material published - the faculty at a nearby university has one chair (out of eight all) about such :wink:


(The 'Institutes for Insurance Studies' at a couple of Universities for Applied Sciences here look at the same .... from a certainly different angle, but with the same results.)

This is from Austria, but it's quite similar to other countries with universal healthcare:
New rules for preventive health check-ups

Walter, The abstract from your link is fully explanatory concerning preventive health plans. I'm not sure why people still don't understand the benefits.

from one of the many website of KAISER PERMANENTE , one of the largest U.S. health care providers , i understand :



it seems that KAISER believes in prevention .

source :
KAISER PERMANENTE

hbg, Not all Kaiser hospitals are created equal, by our's in Santa Clara County is rated one of the tops in the country for HMOs.

My doctor is the best I've ever had in my life. She's from India and trained at Stanford. My oncologist was trained at Harvard, and during one of our small talk sessions, she told me that our hospital hires many doctors from Stanford, and that reflects on the quality of service we receive. I agree 100 percent!

You forgot the footnote:

*To be eligible for coverage, you must pass a medical review. Upon approval for coverage, you will be billed for the first month's premium and on a monthly basis thereafter.

$47/month compares with what a animal owner will pay in health insurance for their pet in the North East...Human coverage is about $300-$750/month.

Why this big difference between Ohio and East coast?

Unknown from this site is the age covered and income requirements.

$1500 Deductible Plan
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Kaiser Permanente of CA AM Best Rating: NR-1 Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
HMO $1,500 0% You pay $30 after deductible

$349.00
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Prescription Drug Covered Maternity Coverage Available No Application Fee Electronic Signature Not Eligible for Health Savings Account (HSA)

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Plan Highlight: Rarely need a doctor's advice? Want health coverage only for the big things? Choose our $1,500 Deductible Plan, which offers coverage for major expenses at a low monthly rate.


PPO 3500 HSA-Compatible - Individual

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BC Life & Health Insurance Company AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $3,500 0% You pay nothing after deductible

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$25 Copayment Plan

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Balance Plan 2500

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Blue Shield of California AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $2,500 30% $30

$472.00
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Prescription Drug Covered No Maternity Coverage No Application Fee Electronic Signature Not Eligible for Health Savings Account (HSA)

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Individual Select HMO

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Blue Cross of California AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
HMO $0 0% $25

$475.00
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$0/$2700 Deductible Plan w/HSA

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Kaiser Permanente of CA AM Best Rating: NR-1 Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
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Active Start Plan 35

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PPO $0 40% $35

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Essential Plan 3000

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PPO $3,000 0% $40

$520.00
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Essential Plan 1750

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Blue Shield of California AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $1,750 0% $40

$563.00
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Individual RightPlan PPO 40 RX-Generic

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BC Life & Health Insurance Company AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $0 40% $40

$508.00
Monthly Cost

Prescription Drug Covered No Maternity Coverage No Application Fee Electronic Signature Not Eligible for Health Savings Account (HSA)

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Basic PPO 1000

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BC Life & Health Insurance Company AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $1,000 20% Not covered before out of pocket maximum is met

$286.00
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No Prescription Drug Coverage No Maternity Coverage No Application Fee Electronic Signature Not Eligible for Health Savings Account (HSA)

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Shield Spectrum PPO Savings Plan 4000

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Blue Shield of California AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $4,000 0% You pay nothing after deductible

$394.00
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Lumenos HIA 5000


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Blue Cross of California AM Best Rating: A Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit
PPO $5,000 0% 0% after deductible

$449.00
Monthly Cost

Prescription Drug Covered Maternity Coverage Available No Application Fee Electronic Signature Not Eligible for Health Savings Account (HSA)

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This is a comparison of several insurance plans in LA County for the individual who's under 65 years of age, and not medicare legible.
Zip code used for this search was 90001.


Most striking are the high deductible rates. I don't see any policies for $50/month here.

I checked out one HMO in this area for an internist and I found exactly one and this man wasn't taking any additional patients.

Many of these plans have very high deductibles and at least one with drug coverage will cover only generic drugs. I suppose this means if there is no generic equivalent to your medication, you'll have to pay for the Brand name drug out of your own pocket.

Where there is a deductible mentioned, the range is about $1500-$7000/year.

for the time being i better stick with SOCIAL MEDICINE aka. ontario (government) health insurance .

mrs h had cataract surgery this spring . she had to wait six months because she insisted that the operation be done by the chief surgeon .
he only operates two mornings a week and teaches at the local university hospital and also in toronto .
he had two years ago performed an operation on her and suggested she use one of his other team physicians , but she told him that she'd prefer to wait for him .
the two operations were done without any problems and both mrs h and the surgeon were very happy about the outcome .
when she went for her check-up , the surgeon invited me to come in . after he had done the check , he was so happy , he came over to shake my hand and told me how happy HE was that the operation was so successful - no glasses needed any more .
certainly a very acomplished surgeon with a most pleasant personality - he made ME happy too .

mrs h could have travelled to another hospital about 1 1/2 hours away with a wait-time of 23 days , but she was satisfied to wait .
so we are quite satisfied with our system .
hbg

(btw the wait-times are available online)

Miller, You seem to have done a great deal of research on the "existing" health care system in the US. From your perspective, what do you think is the best way to develop a universal health care in the US?

I believe in co-pays for everyone - including the poor to minimize abuse. What do you think?

I've always been for regulation of the insurance companies, something we've never seen in Massachusetts.

I believe in co-pays, but what purpose do the high deductibles serve?

In California, with a deductible of $7000 plus a monthly payment, the net pay out by the patient is more than $900/month.