65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 10:53 am
We could have purchased dental insurance through our Medicare plan, but my wife and I decided we wanted to pick our own dentist. We've had Dr Mariam Acosta for a couple of decades, and she is about as good a dentist we'll find. The only negative is her $35 charge for her three minute "examiniation" every time we go in for a clean.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 01:40 pm
It is true that universal care is paid through taxes on a country's residents. However, keep in mind that the cost of healthcare in the USA is double that of the healthcare of the next country that has universal care.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 03:05 pm
Just noticed there is approximately a 4 to 5 year life expectancy difference between the states with the highest and lowest obesity rates, with Colorado at 16.8% obesity rate and a life expactancy of 78.4, as compared with Mississippi at 29.5% and 73.7.

http://calorielab.com/news/2005/08/25/obesity-visualized-state-by-state/

It appears that obesity, which is also probably an indicator of other related lifestyle negatives, such as lack of exercise, bad diet, etc., is a significant indicator of life expectancy.

And interesting that the 16.8% is still much higher than Japan, which is one of the leading countries in life expectancy, at around 82 years. Interesting also that Hawaii is also around 16% obesity rate, and its life expectancy is around 80 years.

As a matter of note, I thought there was another bit of news a while back that the overall obesity rate in the U.S. was 32%, which must have been based on somewhat different thresholds?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 03:12 pm
okie, I agree that obesity can be the consequence of negative lifestyles, but you must also agree that many poor parents do not have information on good nutrition. Many children are the victims of their parents inability to have a good diet; so we really can't blame the children. It wasn't that long ago that public school cafeterias were notorious for serving fatty, unhealthy foods, and some still do.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 04:12 pm
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods. I don't blame the kids, imposter. Maybe it would be a good idea to put them to work in sweat shops?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 04:22 pm
You're going over the edge of common sense questions again. Why do you have a need to ask dumb questions?
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 04:52 pm
the U.S. CENSUS BUREAU publishes some easily accessible data .
here for everyone's enlightenment are the figures for MEDIAN INCOME FOR 4-PERSON FAMILY - state-by state .
surprise , surprise (as gomer pyle used to say) , the family income in mississippi is $47,847 , in colorado it's $68,089 Exclamation - 42 % HIGHER !
draw your own conclusions !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and if you think that's meaningless , you might have a look at the following article (published in july 2004 - has much changed by now ?) :
POVERTY TIGHTENS GRIP ON MISSISSIPPI DELTA , not a pretty picture , imo !
hbg

from above linked article :
Quote:
COAHOMA, Miss. -- The abandoned shells of buildings along the main drag here serve as a glum backdrop for the youngsters who sit in front of them for hours, idly chatting and staring into the occasional passing car. A liquor store and convenience store are the only places to shop. The little work available is seasonal or at casinos 25 miles away.

Poverty, like an annoying out-of-town cousin, has settled into this Mississippi Delta town for an extended stay. Fifty-five percent of households in this community of 350 take in less than $15,000 a year, well below the federal poverty line of $18,850 for a family of four. The last of the town's shacks, which lacked toilets and insulation, were retired only in the last decade, after Habitat for Humanity made destroying them a priority.

Leroy Bush has lived here all his life, picking cotton and working odd jobs to make ends meet. A decade ago, he became a homeowner in exchange for 500 hours' worth of "sweat equity" and a promise to pay $100 a month on an interest-free mortgage that covers the cost of the land, insurance and materials. The labor was free.

"Everybody here is just trying to make it," said Bush, 55, who works with his wife, Clarethea, at a nearby casino. "We do the best we can."

The human faces of poverty for many Americans are the inner-city homeless who sleep on grates, beg on corners and line up, mornings and afternoons, at local parks for a cup of soup and a sandwich. But of the 50 counties with the highest child-poverty rates, 48 are in rural America. Compared with urban areas, unemployment is typically higher, education poorer and services severely limited because people are so spread out.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 05:43 pm
hbg, Good article on America's poor. That's the reason I donate to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities every year - my two favorite charities in this world. They help everybody irregardless of race, religion or any other identifier, and most of the money goes to help people - not big administrative costs and overhead.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 05:56 pm
okie wrote:
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods.


Where do you shop Okie. I would love you to show me a weeks worth of wholesome and less fattening foods that you would buy cheaper than a weeks worth of pop pizza, potato chips, etc.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 06:04 pm
maporsche wrote:
okie wrote:
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods.


Where do you shop Okie. I would love you to show me a weeks worth of wholesome and less fattening foods that you would buy cheaper than a weeks worth of pop pizza, potato chips, etc.


Same place as you, ma - it's called rice and beans. Not much fun, but will keep you thin and in fighting shape, on a budget.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 06:07 pm
cyclo wrote :

Quote:
Same place as you, ma - it's called rice and beans. Not much fun, but will keep you thin and in fighting shape, on a budget.


i don't know about "fighting shape" , unless you think that the "combustible gases" will frighten any enemies away Shocked Laughing
hbg
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 06:13 pm
hamburger wrote:
cyclo wrote :

Quote:
Same place as you, ma - it's called rice and beans. Not much fun, but will keep you thin and in fighting shape, on a budget.


i don't know about "fighting shape" , unless you think that the "combustible gases" will frighten any enemies away Shocked Laughing
hbg


Add a little of this to your next pot of beans, and the problem vanishes... into thin air Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 06:22 pm
but some caution advised ;

Quote:
Wormseed is toxic in overdose so must be used under the guidance of a professional. It is known that overdoses will severely affect the central nervous system, causing spasms and signs of paralysis, as well as hearing loss that can last for years.
Do not use during pregnancy.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 06:22 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
maporsche wrote:
okie wrote:
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods.


Where do you shop Okie. I would love you to show me a weeks worth of wholesome and less fattening foods that you would buy cheaper than a weeks worth of pop pizza, potato chips, etc.


Same place as you, ma - it's called rice and beans. Not much fun, but will keep you thin and in fighting shape, on a budget.

Cycloptichorn


Sorry when he said 'wholesome' I though he meant something like a balanced diet, not just rice and beans.

And even then, if you tell a person you could have rice and beans for every meal or McDonalds, what would you really expect them to do? Is that even a choice?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 06:54 pm
okie wrote:
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods. I don't blame the kids, imposter. Maybe it would be a good idea to put them to work in sweat shops?


Sometimes I wonder if your brain is perpetually in reverse gear.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 07:07 pm
"... let them eat cake !..."

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/twi/lowres/twin208l.jpg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2007 08:30 pm
Miller wrote:
okie wrote:
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods. I don't blame the kids, imposter. Maybe it would be a good idea to put them to work in sweat shops?


Sometimes I wonder if your brain is perpetually in reverse gear.


Miller, Thank you! It seemed I was the only one thinking okie went backwards in time with his deficient prose.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2007 05:17 am
I have no idea how feasible this idea is but here is an Op-Ed piece from today's Boston Globe:

Quote:

We are all uninsured now
By Laurence J. Kotlikoff | August 28, 2007

BIG NUMBERS, like 45 million uninsured Americans, are hard to grasp. But that number came home to me at a recent conference. The keynote speaker was former Supreme Court justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Her topic was our healthcare system, and her message was personal and anguished.

The gist was that even she lives in constant fear of major uninsured health bills. Not her own -- those of her son. He can't afford insurance because his son -- her grandchild -- has a preexisting condition.

As I listened, a light dawned: O'Connor and the rest of us with health coverage are also uninsured. We too face terrible, albeit more remote, healthcare risks -- the risk that our employer will drop our plan, that Medicare will go bust, that our plan won't cover our needs, that premiums will eat us alive, that our doctor will stop taking our insurance, that long-term care will wipe us out, and that our uninsured friends and family members will need major financial help.

These risks are entirely avoidable. We can have an efficient, transparent system that includes everyone; treats everyone fairly; covers all the basics, including prescription drugs, home healthcare, and nursing home care; and costs little more than what we now spend. But we can't get there via the piecemeal reforms that President Bush, most of his would-be successors, and our state governors are advocating.

Bush first pushed health savings accounts -- a knuckle-brained scheme to get the uninsured to save for all their healthcare costs short of catastrophic care. When that didn't stop 5 million more Americans from becoming uninsured, the president proposed letting the uninsured deduct the cost of their health plans if they buy private coverage. This makes sense on equity grounds (insured workers receive a tax break), but it won't help much. Most of the uninsured are in too low a tax bracket or pay too little in taxes for it to make any difference. In any case, the Democrats have nixed this idea.

So the president's plan C, it seems, is to let the states deal with the problem.

Many governors are eager to do so, but they want the federal government to pay. Their immediate goal is enrolling many of our nation's 9 million uninsured children in Medicaid's S-Chip program. Trouble is, Medicaid is already hemorrhaging money -- mostly federal money. Its ranks have exploded by 35 percent since Bush took office, and he's decided that expanding Medicaid further is tantamount to nationalizing healthcare. He's pledged to veto an S-Chip funding bill that would cover 3.3 million more children.

Most of the Democratic and several of the Republican presidential candidates support expanding S-Chip. Like many governors, they'd also follow Massachusetts' lead in forcing employers to either provide health plans or pay a modest tax to help subsidize health plans for the uninsured. The end game would be a balkanized healthcare system with the old in Medicare, the poor in Medicaid, most workers in employer plans, and the losers -- the otherwise uninsured -- in highly subsidized, limited-coverage plans. Loser plans.

This won't work. First, Medicare and Medicaid are already on a course to bankrupt the nation. Keeping these programs intact is fiscal suicide. Second, many employers are fed up with healthcare spending and are heading for the exit. In 2000, 66 percent of non-elderly Americans were covered by employer-based health insurance. Today's figure is 59 percent. And the more attractive loser insurance becomes, the quicker employers will drop their plans.

Third, loser insurance requires a major federal bureaucracy (think Hillarycare) and unaffordable subsidies. Fourth, this "solution" does nothing to reduce the administrative costs that consume a fifth of our healthcare dollars. Fifth and most damning, making loser policies available doesn't guarantee their purchase. Millions will remain uninsured.

My solution is called the Medical Security System. It would eliminate Medicare, Medicaid, and (by dropping the tax breaks) employer-based healthcare. The government would give everyone a voucher each year for a basic health plan. The size of the voucher would be based on one's health status. Those in worse health would get bigger vouchers, leaving insurers no incentive to cherry-pick. Furthermore, insurers would not be permitted to refuse a voucher or otherwise deny coverage.

The government would set the total voucher budget as a fixed share of gross domestic product and determine what a basic plan must cover. We would choose our own health plans. If we cost the insurer more than the voucher, he would lose money. If we cost him less, he would make money. Insurers would compete for our business and could tailor provisions, like co-pays and incentives to stop smoking, to limit excessive use of the healthcare system and encourage healthy behavior.

Nothing would be nationalized. Virtually all of the cost would be covered by redirecting existing government healthcare expenditures as well as tax breaks. Doctors, hospitals, and insurers would continue to market their services on a competitive basis.

This is not a French, British, or Canadian solution. It's an American, market-based solution that Republicans should love. It's also a progressive solution that Democrats should love. (Democratic presidential candidate Mike Gravel has endorsed it.) The poor, who are, on average, in worse health, will receive, on average, larger vouchers. The rich will lose their tax breaks.

Why can't a country as rich as ours come up with a system that works? This, in essence, was Justice O'Connor's parting question.

But, in fact, we can. Now if we can just get the big cheeses in the Oval Office or on their way there to start thinking big . . .

Laurence J. Kotlikoff, a professor of economics at Boston University, is author of the forthcoming book "The Healthcare Fix."

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/08/28/we_are_all_uninsured_now/
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2007 07:54 am
fishin, We also do that; we insure our younger son with catastrophic coverage, and we pay for all his health care - out of pocket. The monthly premiums continue to climb as he gets older, and insurance premiums are notorious for inflating at 2-3 times the "official" inflation rate. He just complete his college degree in Psychology at age 40, cum laude, but cannot find a job. We worry about him as we get older; we're no longer spring chickens ourselves. There's nobody to look after him after we are gone, so my wife is in constant worry.

There are more families like Sandra Day O'Connor than most people realize.

Actually, the numbers of the uninsured is 47 million and growing.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2007 09:20 am
Miller wrote:
okie wrote:
I think pop, pizza, potato chips, ice cream, and french fries, and other junk foods are more expensive than more wholesome and less fattening foods. I don't blame the kids, imposter. Maybe it would be a good idea to put them to work in sweat shops?


Sometimes I wonder if your brain is perpetually in reverse gear.


Everybody is making fun of my statement about junkfood. Everybody here apparently thinks the supersize burgers, french fries, and pop are not fattening. And then hamburger suggests that being fat is a result of being poor. This is getting to be depressing to say the least.

And Miller, the comment about sweat shops was a joke to tweak imposter.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 06/17/2025 at 04:49:12